Rick Turner on Takamine Acoustic/Electric Pickups and Preamps

[Lewguitar]

"Actually some of the best sounding Takamine preamps were the ones they made in the late 1980s before they added all the bells and whistles. The old brown faced unit with volume, treble, and bass was the sonic winner in Jackson Browne's studio comparison test that I did some years ago. The more features Takamine added, the worse the sound got using the same guitar and same pickup as the test bed. The Tak pickup sounds it's best with a high headroom 18 volt buffer with no tone controls at all."

So what is a high headroom 18 volt buffer with no tone controls at all?

The reason I ask is that before reading the Rick Turner quote, I was thinking of replacing the simple volume, treble, mid, bass preamps in my Tak EF341SC guitars with some of the newer Tak preamps with all the bells and whistles, that Ken says don't sound as good!

Any thoughts?

 

[Artie]

Re: Rick Turner on Takamine Acoustic/Electric Pickups and Preamps

So what is a high headroom 18 volt buffer with no tone controls at all?

A buffer is just a preamp. However, when one uses the term "buffer", rather than preamp, they are usually refering to a current boost rather than a voltage boost. You would call this a "unity-gain" stage. Generally, a buffer is used when you you want to eliminate the affect of "loading" on a pickup. There wouldn't be any volume gain per se.

Then again, some folks use the term buffer just to mean a simple preamp, even if it does have some voltage gain.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Rick Turner on Takamine Acoustic/Electric Pickups and Preamps

A buffer is just a preamp. However, when one uses the term "buffer", rather than preamp, they are usually refering to a current boost rather than a voltage boost. You would call this a "unity-gain" stage. Generally, a buffer is used when you you want to eliminate the affect of "loading" on a pickup. There wouldn't be any volume gain per se.

Then again, some folks use the term buffer just to mean a simple preamp, even if it does have some voltage gain.

Thanks Artie...want to make me one? lol!

 

[Artie]

Re: Rick Turner on Takamine Acoustic/Electric Pickups and Preamps

Thanks Artie...want to make me one? lol!

Sure. Just tell me what kind of power you plan to use, and I'll get right on it . . . after I finish Matt's diagrams.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Rick Turner on Takamine Acoustic/Electric Pickups and Preamps

The Takamines use a single 9 volt battery. Would that work? Sorry Artie...I'm actually pretty ignorant when it comes to truly technical stuff. Most of what I know about things comes from experimentaion, experience and simple trial and error.

But I have no experience at all with this kind of stuff...

Lew

 

[Artie]

Re: Rick Turner on Takamine Acoustic/Electric Pickups and Preamps

I do experimentation too . . . I just use folks like you for guinea pigs.

Let me see what I can whip up. I take it you want the simple buffer with volume control, for 9-volt power?

Edit: Btw - all I would be doing is adapting something from Jack Orman or similar. Its a pretty basic circuit.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Rick Turner on Takamine Acoustic/Electric Pickups and Preamps

I do experimentation too . . . I just use folks like you for guinea pigs.

Let me see what I can whip up. I take it you want the simple buffer with volume control, for 9-volt power?

Yeah...I guess. Artie, maybe PM me your phone number. Let's chat! Thanks, Lew

 

[Artie]

Re: Rick Turner on Takamine Acoustic/Electric Pickups and Preamps

PM sent.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Rick Turner on Takamine Acoustic/Electric Pickups and Preamps

He is right, those old brownconsoles are fab!!
All the later stuff just sounded....like piezo crystals
The all simple brown one is so nice and full!

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Rick Turner on Takamine Acoustic/Electric Pickups and Preamps

He is right, those old brownconsoles are fab!!
All the later stuff just sounded....like piezo crystals
The all simple brown one is so nice and full!

So Rid, Two of my three Takamine EF-341SC guitars have the simple volume, treble, mid and bass preamp. No tuners or parametric eq or notch anti-feedback controls or anything. Are the preamps in mine about the same as the old brown ones?

The third one has an "exciter" built into it...kind of like a prescence control or something. What's that actually do?

Thanks! Lew

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Rick Turner on Takamine Acoustic/Electric Pickups and Preamps

Oh the one with the added top.....
They are all black consoles??

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Rick Turner on Takamine Acoustic/Electric Pickups and Preamps

Oh the one with the added top.....
They are all black consoles??

Yeah...they're all black.

I really do like these Takamine's for stage work. I have three of the spruce topped EF341SC's like the model Springsteen plays. One is tuned standard, one is tuned open G and one is tuned open D...though I might experiment with that one and put some real light gauge rock n roll strings on it and tune it standard.

So far, I've been plugging them straight into the PA board or into a guitar amp.

But, of course, I'm always looking for ways to improve my sound...which is where the Rick Turner quote came from. Been doing a little research on the Acoustic Guitar Forum and found that thread from Rick...he posts there.

Thanks! Lew

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Rick Turner on Takamine Acoustic/Electric Pickups and Preamps

Have you thought about just gutting them and plugging straight into a Mama Bear or Solstice? All of the D-Tar stuff should get Rick Turner's ringing endorsement, right? Seriously if you have three guitars, it might be nice to do what I do with mine. The internal system is the same, and they both use the same outboard box. There are no knobs on the guitars, just an output jack.

With the current D-Tar catalogue of products you can put together a unified system for each guitar, and still keep your piezos in the Taks, assuming that piezo is part of the secret to the great tone of that guitar. Maybe something simple like a Timber-Line pre or Load 'n Lock in each guitar, you would just have an output from each guitar that would match.

With the Solstice you could leave two plugged in at once. I got's to get's me one of them Solstices to replace my home-made box. I feel like with the Solstices I can match up with any PA system in the world and get the right feed.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Rick Turner on Takamine Acoustic/Electric Pickups and Preamps

Frank, that's just what I was thinking. And what I was asking Artie if he could help me with.

Here's the quote from Rick Turner again: "The Tak pickup sounds it's best with a high headroom 18 volt buffer with no tone controls at all."

So: is the buffer needed or advantageous if I use the Mama Bear?

You know, over on the acoustic forum, the Mama Bear is mentioned alot, but it doesn't seem to be used alot. The guys tend to go for the Taylor preamp or other high end stuff instead.

I'm kind of ignorant about all of the advances in acoustic guitar amplification. The Sunrise pickups and preamp served me right for many years and it's only recently that I decided to change to the Takamines.

I do like having volume control on my guitar...maybe I could do without tone controls. But we do our own sound at this point and don't have a sound man.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Rick Turner on Takamine Acoustic/Electric Pickups and Preamps

Check your pm. This is precisely the subject matter we're contemplating at this time.

 

[Rick Turner]

Re: Rick Turner on Takamine Acoustic/Electric Pickups and Preamps

In those experiments I was using a custom unity gain all discrete 18 volt DC coupled buffer made for me by Bob Wolstein before he and I started Highlander. That circuit is not available these days. The experiments took place at Jackson Browne's studio in Santa Monica.

At D-TAR we do not currently have a unity gain buffer available like that one, but this certainly has me thinking.

That Tak pickup is really a nice piece of engineering too often squashed by overly ambitious electronics...just my opinion...but I've talked to one of the Tak engineers who happens to agree with me on that.

I haven't ever tried the Tak pickup passive, but with a reasonably short cable, it might be just fine into a Solstice or Mama or Equinox. You wouldn't have any onboard controls, but it might sound really good. That's worth trying.