Roughcast A2

[beaubrummels]

It's not a question of tone snob, but if your particular guitar and amp will expose what's different such that you notice.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

i run a wlh neck with my jb. the wlh has a 500k volume, and both share a 500k tone control. not sure id love the neck bucker with a 250k volume unless there wasnt a tone control on that pup by itself

Agreed - I use 500K for nearly all humbuckers, with a few exceptions: the JB, or hums in an unusually bright guitar.
But in this case the OP was thinking about swapping his neck A5 for an A2, so I figured he was OK with mellowing the top a bit.
Not sure what control arrangement the OP has; I believe many ESP models don't have individual volumes & tones.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

How big of a difference does it make? I'm thinking of replacing the Alnico 2 in my Alnico 2 neck model with an Alnico 3 to clear up some of the bassiness.

Is it an obvious enough change that you don't need to be a tone snob to be able to hear the difference?

IMO A3 is different enough from A2 that you're likely to notice it right away, especially at band volume.
But as beaubrummels has said, the degree of difference can vary with different guitars.

When it comes to tone, all we have to base our decisions on in advance are generalizations
Sometimes the results defy expectations.

 

[Hsb]

Agreed - I use 500K for nearly all humbuckers, with a few exceptions: the JB, or hums in an unusually bright guitar.
But in this case the OP was thinking about swapping his neck A5 for an A2, so I figured he was OK with mellowing the top a bit.
Not sure what control arrangement the OP has; I believe many ESP models don't have individual volumes & tones.

This particular guitar has a single volume and tone control and I am assuming they are both 500k value. Yeah def ok w mellowing the top end a bit and the good thing is if I decide I dont care for it, its easy enough to change back to the A5

Lots of good opinions in here, keep them coming and thanks. Probably do the swap next time I change strings on the guitar

 

[GuitarStv]

This particular guitar has a single volume and tone control and I am assuming they are both 500k value. Yeah def ok w mellowing the top end a bit and the good thing is if I decide I dont care for it, its easy enough to change back to the A5

Lots of good opinions in here, keep them coming and thanks. Probably do the swap next time I change strings on the guitar

You can always wire a resistor in parallel to drop the volume pot resistance down when you switch to bridge.

 

[Chistopher]

IMO A3 is different enough from A2 that you're likely to notice it right away, especially at band volume.
But as beaubrummels has said, the degree of difference can vary with different guitars.

When it comes to tone, all we have to base our decisions on in advance are generalizations
Sometimes the results defy expectations.

That's what I noticed when I made the swap for the first time yesterday, people on here talk about the difference between A2 and A3 as if it's subtle, but there was an obvious drop in bass and boost to the highs of the neck pickup I put it in. Maybe a lil flatter mids as well, but that difference was a lot more subtle

 

[eclecticsynergy]

IME A3 is great in neck pickups. I don't think I've ever tried it in a bridge.
Still, the Custombuckers seem to be highly regarded.

 

[beaubrummels]

IME A3 is great in neck pickups. I don't think I've ever tried it in a bridge.
Still, the Custombuckers seem to be highly regarded.

The A3 Custombucker in the bridge of my R0 is like a lower power Brobucker. Has a chimy mid-bump, but nothing like the honk of a Seth or that wide mid hump of an A2P, but is about the output level of a 59N in the bridge, maybe a little hotter.

 

[freefrog]

IMO A3 is different enough from A2 that you're likely to notice it right away, especially at band volume.
But as beaubrummels has said, the degree of difference can vary with different guitars.

When it comes to tone, all we have to base our decisions on in advance are generalizations
Sometimes the results defy expectations.

+1, not to mention that...

-a same magnet can glorify a pickup and give nothing special in another one,

-a "same" alloy can give really different mags, depending on where/how it has been shaped / charged... So, IMHO/IME, it's not really possible to assert univocally that "AlNiCo this sounds like this and AlNiCo that sounds like that".

Practical examples: recently, here, a musician was surprised to notice a higher inductance with a variety of A5 mag than with an A2 in a same humbucker.

Actually, this difference was due to the MASS of the magnets involved...

... and to stay within the limits of Duncan PU's: the dark blueish RC mags mounted by Seymour in his very first 59's had something that I've not found in ANY other case. According to our Gauss and inductance measurements, they seem to be A5, although they make P.A.F. clones sound like with an A2...

But sure, with their absence of cobalt and high ferrous content, A3 are unique in their ability to give the weakest magnetic field and highest inductance with the related tonal effects, all other specs being equal (including dimensions, mass and time of charge of the mag).

FWIW : tedious rambling from an old frog.

 

[Chistopher]

I think the biggest differences between magnets of the same variety come from degaussing. If you let an A4 or A5 magnet degauss it winds up closer to an A2 in terms of sound. It's not going to be exact, but close enough that I expect it makes it a lot easier to wind PAF clones.

In those earlier magnets there's probably also quite a bit of variation in both the hot and cold working processes. Dark blue often means a metal was heated quite a bit more than it should have been, which would definitely weaken the magnet's magnetic field.

 

[freefrog]

Yep, the hot and cold working processes appear to be critical for mags.

Regarding the dark blueish vintage Duncan bars: the odd thing is that our Gauss/Tesla-meters consider them as 1/3 more magnetized than typical A2's... and another meter gives inductance measurements on par with typical A5's once the mentioned mags are in pickups... not to mention that Seymour was describing his SH1/59 as hosting A5 in the early days, if memory serves me (I think to have kept a vintage Duncan advertisement somewhere about that)... but these ol' dark mags still make the sound more "syrupy" than any A5 bar.

Maybe these ol' RC things are UOA5: it's the only alloy with which we have noticed the same thing than what I describe above (high Gauss readings, relatively low inductance but soft sound).

 

[eclecticsynergy]

+1, not to mention that...

-a same magnet can glorify a pickup and give nothing special in another one,

-a "same" alloy can give really different mags, depending on where/how it has been shaped / charged... So, IMHO/IME, it's not really possible to assert univocally that "AlNiCo this sounds like this and AlNiCo that sounds like that".

Practical examples: recently, here, a musician was surprised to notice a higher inductance with a variety of A5 mag than with an A2 in a same humbucker.

Actually, this difference was due to the MASS of the magnets involved...

... and to stay within the limits of Duncan PU's: the dark blueish RC mags mounted by Seymour in his very first 59's had something that I've not found in ANY other case. According to our Gauss and inductance measurements, they seem to be A5, although they make P.A.F. clones sound like with an A2...

But sure, with their absence of cobalt and high ferrous content, A3 are unique in their ability to give the weakest magnetic field and highest inductance with the related tonal effects, all other specs being equal (including dimensions, mass and time of charge of the mag).

FWIW : tedious rambling from an old frog.

Totally agree pickups react differently too. The classic example is the JB, which always sounds like a JB regardless of mag swaps - they tailor its response a bit, but don't change its character as much as with many others.

I love those old 59s. Really quite a change when Duncan switched. I've been calling the original mags black, but blue is really a better term - saves confusion vs truly black ceramics.

I love those old 59s. They really are very different.

I think the biggest differences between magnets of the same variety come from degaussing. If you let an A4 or A5 magnet degauss it winds up closer to an A2 in terms of sound. It's not going to be exact, but close enough that I expect it makes it a lot easier to wind PAF clones.

In those earlier magnets there's probably also quite a bit of variation in both the hot and cold working processes. Dark blue often means a metal was heated quite a bit more than it should have been, which would definitely weaken the magnet's magnetic field.

Overheating had never occurred to me as a possible reason for the unusual appearance. Interesting thought.

Yep, the hot and cold working processes appear to be critical for mags.

Regarding the dark blueish vintage Duncan bars: the odd thing is that our Gauss/Tesla-meters consider them as 1/3 more magnetized than typical A2's... and another meter gives inductance measurements on par with typical A5's once the mentioned mags are in pickups... not to mention that Seymour was describing his SH1/59 as hosting A5 in the early days, if memory serves me (I think to have kept a vintage Duncan advertisement somewhere about that)... but these ol' dark mags still make the sound more "syrupy" than any A5 bar.

Maybe these ol' RC things are UOA5: it's the only alloy with which we have noticed the same thing than what I describe above (high Gauss readings, relatively low inductance but soft sound).

Aha - maybe you've discovered an arcane mystical secret there. Not sure, but whatever it is, there's something special about those old mags.
I swapped one of my 59Bs to UA5 and there seemed to be a difference but it was slighter than in other winds. Maybe confirmation bias only?
I'm thinking perhaps that old mag would take some of the edge off a PG Plus I have sitting around.
Had intended to try A6 but perhaps the vintage blue A5 would do the trick...

Anybody know when Duncan changed to the newer mags? Early 80s? Mid-80s maybe?
I think the most recent I've had was in one I bought around '81 - of course that pickup could've been made in '79 or '80.
It was a long time later before I bought another; by then they sounded different.

 

[Chistopher]

Overheating had never occurred to me as a possible reason for the unusual appearance. Interesting thought.

Yeah, I learned how heat effects color in sheet metal class back in high school. I learned a lot of weird things in that class. Like if you weld a piece of metal to be white hot and then drop it into a can of Tab, the room will smell like burnt soda for weeks.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Yeah, I learned how heat effects color in sheet metal class back in high school. I learned a lot of weird things in that class. Like if you weld a piece of metal to be white hot and then drop it into a can of Tab, the room will smell like burnt soda for weeks.

I think burnt chrome pickup covers look pretty cool. Not sure I want 'em on any of my own guitars, but cool nonetheless.

 

[Chistopher]

I think burnt chrome pickup covers look pretty cool. Not sure I want 'em on any of my own guitars, but cool nonetheless.

Burnt chrome works well on car exhausts too

 

[Hsb]

Took a few minutes this morn and made the switch from the A5 to the RCA2 into the 59N, what Ive heard so far, Im digging it better than the A5 but I only spent 10-15 mins with the guitar.

Im off this week, so I will have plenty of time to test through my MX5 and my Jub and get a better feel for the mag swap