RWRP and phase cancellation simultaneously?

[Plessure]

My stratocaster needs modding. These are the plans:

1. Simple capacitor treble bleed
2. Push volume pot to engage neck pickup (for all 7 combinations)
3. Push tone pots to phase flip neck and middle pickups.

I never felt like i really understood the RWRP 2&4 position thing. As far as i got it, it's essentially a spaced humbucker - even though it sounds a little phasey weird. Please correct me if i'm wrong.

Questions: How will phase cancellation work with RWRP? Is it cool?

Please educate me and i shall spill my entrails

 

[Blille]

RWRP and phase cancellation simultaneously?

RWRP: https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/rwrp-1

In 2 and 4 the pickups are in parallel, not series so while they cancel the hum they are not “spaced humbuckers” they will still sound like single coils but without hum. Some purists believe that it modifies the sound a bit but I think you’ll be fine. Here’s a comparison:

https://youtu.be/j2Z7ZIKAXTA

Not a fan of out of Phase in general. I would really encourage you to play a guitar with out of Phase positions before modding it. Or search YouTube.


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[Plessure]

Re: RWRP and phase cancellation simultaneously?

RWRP: https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/rwrp-1

In 2 and 4 the pickups are in parallel, not series so while they cancel the hum they are not “spaced humbuckers” they will still sound like single coils but without hum. Some purists believe that it modifies the sound a bit but I think you’ll be fine. Here’s a comparison:

https://youtu.be/j2Z7ZIKAXTA

Not a fan of out of Phase in general. I would really encourage you to play a guitar with out of Phase positions before modding it. Or search YouTube.


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I've tried a Peavey T-60 and i like phase cancellation. I wouldn't go for it if i hadn't even heard it! Not sure what you mean by being fine. My strat already has RWRP.

You're right of course with the parallel.

 

[Blille]

Re: RWRP and phase cancellation simultaneously?

I've tried a Peavey T-60 and i like phase cancellation. I wouldn't go for it if i hadn't even heard it!

You're right of course with the parallel.

Cool! Then enjoy! I had it on a couple of guitars and never ended up using it




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[Chistopher]

Re: RWRP and phase cancellation simultaneously?

If you're asking if you can be out of phase while still being noiseless, yes. If two pickups are magnetically out of phase, then they will not be noiseless. If they are electrically out of phase, they will be.

 

[Plessure]

Re: RWRP and phase cancellation simultaneously?

If you're asking if you can be out of phase while still being noiseless, yes. If two pickups are magnetically out of phase, then they will not be noiseless. If they are electrically out of phase, they will be.

You're trying to make me think now aren't you?

 

[Chistopher]

Re: RWRP and phase cancellation simultaneously?

It's not all that complicated. The wire detects 60 cycle hum, the magnets don't. That means if the windings are out of phase the hum is cancelled, but with the magnets out of phase, the windings still pick up the hum.

Even the great Dirk Wacker didn't realize this at first. I had to email him about it relating to one of his articles.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: RWRP and phase cancellation simultaneously?

Never liked treble bleeds.

 

[Plessure]

Re: RWRP and phase cancellation simultaneously?

It's not all that complicated. The wire detects 60 cycle hum, the magnets don't. That means if the windings are out of phase the hum is cancelled, but with the magnets out of phase, the windings still pick up the hum.

Even the great Dirk Wacker didn't realize this at first. I had to email him about it relating to one of his articles.

Yeah that bit is simple. What i wonder is how this works with phase cancellation. If i interpret this correctly, the noise cancellation should be intact during phase cancellation with this setup?

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: RWRP and phase cancellation simultaneously?

Yeah that bit is simple. What i wonder is how this works with phase cancellation. If i interpret this correctly, the noise cancellation should be intact during phase cancellation with this setup?

The problem as I see it is that the only way to flip phase on the fly is electrically. So either your in-phase tone or your out of phase tone will have hum. The magnetic polarity will remain the same.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: RWRP and phase cancellation simultaneously?

The problem as I see it is that the only way to flip phase on the fly is electrically. So either your in-phase tone or your out of phase tone will have hum. The magnetic polarity will remain the same.

I only use it for HH guitars that I have a coil split half out of phase wired in. Another note to the OP, the 2 and 4 positions out of phase sound way too thin and wimpy for most people's taste.

 

[Plessure]

Re: RWRP and phase cancellation simultaneously?

I only use it for HH guitars that I have a coil split half out of phase wired in. Another note to the OP, the 2 and 4 positions out of phase sound way too thin and wimpy for most people's taste.

Input appreciated.

My technique is rather unusual and i can work with weird sounds. I used to do synth based music for years, so i'm more of a generalist and explorer than a tone-chaser if that makes sense.

The problem as I see it is that the only way to flip phase on the fly is electrically. So either your in-phase tone or your out of phase tone will have hum. The magnetic polarity will remain the same.

I may be a bit thick but to me it seems like you and Christopher are saying the opposite things. One might say you're out of phase with each other. But the tinny leftovers may show promise.

 

[Artie]

Re: RWRP and phase cancellation simultaneously?

I hate to sound pedantic, but the "P" in RWRP is polarity. Not phase. Phase is in the time domain and is frequency dependent. Polarity is not. Now, back to our regularly scheduled program.

In regards to a guitar pickup, there are three things you can do to reverse polarity: Reverse the wind of the coil, flip the magnet, or flip the output wires. Do an odd number, (1 or 3), and you reverse the polarity. Do an even number, and you don't. So the middle pup on a Strat does two: reverse the coil wind, (RW), and reverse the magnet polarity, (RP). So, if you do the third thang, reverse the wires, the signal will be reverse polarity, and the pickup will no longer be noise canceling.

A humbucker is done slightly different. Both coils are wound the same direction, but are wired in reverse polarity. But the two coils get reverse magnet polarity. Those are the two, (even number), polarity reversals.

 

[redbullnshimano]

Re: RWRP and phase cancellation simultaneously?

I say 'go for it' bro. Then don't forget to post the results you get. I'd like to know what it would sounds like.

I wanted to mod one of my guitars exactly as what you're planning to do.
I contemplated, because it sets me thinking logically. Rwrp with phase cancellation?
Doesn't that means putting the pup back into the same polarity as per originally wound?
And that is what putting me off the project....

Good luck

 

[Jacew]

Re: RWRP and phase cancellation simultaneously?

Input appreciated.

My technique is rather unusual and i can work with weird sounds. I used to do synth based music for years, so i'm more of a generalist and explorer than a tone-chaser if that makes sense.

I may be a bit thick but to me it seems like you and Christopher are saying the opposite things. One might say you're out of phase with each other. But the tinny leftovers may show promise.

Christopher can have hum cancellation in both positions, because he is using four coils (2 humbuckers). Humbucker is hum-cancelling in itself, when switching to out of phase sound, you can use one coil from each humbucker to keep humcancelling.

With 2 coils (1 humbucker or 2 singles) you can't have both.

 

[Plessure]

Re: RWRP and phase cancellation simultaneously?

Christopher can have hum cancellation in both positions, because he is using four coils (2 humbuckers). Humbucker is hum-cancelling in itself, when switching to out of phase sound, you can use one coil from each humbucker to keep humcancelling.

With 2 coils (1 humbucker or 2 singles) you can't have both.

Alright. Didn't quite catch that from his initial post.

I'm just confused now. Actually i don't even care for the hum cancellation as much as the particular sound. Maybe i should add parallell/series switch...

Fifth cup of coffee incoming

 

[Jacew]

Re: RWRP and phase cancellation simultaneously?

I only use it for HH guitars that I have a coil split half out of phase wired in. Another note to the OP, the 2 and 4 positions out of phase sound way too thin and wimpy for most people's taste.

I find full out-of-phase sounds to have very little use, however partially it can be brilliant.

I have phase switch in my strat: Switching to neck/bridge combo out of phase and controlling the tone with neck volume is how I usually use it. With vol 0 it's just bridge tone, dialing neck pickup in around 20-30 % brings in awesome searing lead.

 

[Plessure]

Re: RWRP and phase cancellation simultaneously?

I find full out-of-phase sounds to have very little use, however partially it can be brilliant.

I have phase switch in my strat: Switching to neck/bridge combo out of phase and controlling the tone with neck volume is how I usually use it. With vol 0 it's just bridge tone, dialing neck pickup in around 20-30 % brings in awesome searing lead.

Good point. I'm thinking similar, but with the tone pots.

How are your pots wired? Mine are default with a master volume.

 

[Jacew]

Re: RWRP and phase cancellation simultaneously?

Good point. I'm thinking similar, but with the tone pots.

How are your pots wired? Mine are default with a master volume.

One (500k) volume for neck/middle and other for bridge, with pickups wired to the middle lug so they won't affect each other. And no-load master volume