RWRP vs non RWRP on a strat

[Heavy]

Does anyone else hear a difference in the sound when the middle strat pickups is/isn't RWRP? I've recently been through a bunch of strats at some stores.

All the pickups with the RWRP that I've tried (Fralins, Fat 50's) seem to sound brighter/thinner in 2 and 4 on the pickup selector. When it's non RWRP, the tones sound sweeter and hollow in those positions. By sweeter, I mean it sounds like the high end was rolled off a bit. That's how vintage strats sound to me in the notch positions.

Maybe it's just the particular sets of pickups I've tried with RWRP but it doesn't sound as good. I've read that Suhr and Fralin say there is absolutely no difference in sound. I guess they would know.

But still, it sounds better to me when it's not RWRP. Anyone else hear it like that? Not like that?

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: RWRP vs non RWRP on a strat

The 2 and 4 notch positions are part of the beauty of a strat, and are intended more for clean 'quacky' rhythm. Most pickup sets nowadays are RWRP.

One thing you should consider, if you want more options, is a Fralin Blender pot.
That will allow you to get all the traditional sounds, but also lets you blend the neck and bridge together, for more of a middle Tele sound.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: RWRP vs non RWRP on a strat

Technically there is no difference. There is a possibility that you are hearing the actual underlying noise beneath the sound of the notes, and that it's contributing to a more nasal, purring tone when in 2 and 4. But that would be simply because the 60 cycle hum is living under the audio. But I would chalk it up to just different pickups and different guitars.

 

[Bludave]

Re: RWRP vs non RWRP on a strat

I have a set of Surfer with RWRP and a set of Texas hots the same way. I can't hear any difference!

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: RWRP vs non RWRP on a strat

I wonder why Seymour reverses the polarity and reverses the wind on the Surfers compared to all of his other Strat pickups? Does he hear something or know something about a RW/RP pickup that we don't? Lew

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: RWRP vs non RWRP on a strat

I wonder why Seymour reverses the polarity and reverses the wind on the Surfers compared to all of his other Strat pickups? Does he hear something or know something about a RW/RP pickup that we don't? Lew

I heard it's because Antiquities are supposed to be exact replicas of 50's and 60's pickups, and apparently Fender did it that way, so Seymour did too.
You'd know more than I would though, because I've never messed with actual vintage Fender pickups. Were the 60's graybacks opposite the 50's?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: RWRP vs non RWRP on a strat

I heard it's because Antiquities are supposed to be exact replicas of 50's and 60's pickups, and apparently Fender did it that way, so Seymour did too.
You'd know more than I would though, because I've never messed with actual vintage Fender pickups. Were the 60's graybacks opposite the 50's?

You know what? I'll check. I'll compare the polarity of the pickups in my '63 Strat to the Surfers. I've compared them tone wise many times...but never thought to check the magnetic polarity. Lew

 

[Heavy]

Re: RWRP vs non RWRP on a strat

I don't know about all this. I do know that even on clean tone when I'm not getting any hum to cloud the judgement, the non RWRP always sounds thicker in the inbetween positions. Like playing Little Wing by SRV, it sounds right with that hollow, woody tone. It sounds like a vintage strat to me. The RWRP middle pickup on a strat only came about in the late 80's, and those guitars never got any type of those vintage strat sounds.
Every time I use the notch positions on a RWRP, it does not sound vintagey.
I think RWRP sounds cool for 80's type clean and funk tones, because the tone seems to thin more. It almost sounds direct in a way. No sweetness though, and something like Sweet Home Alabama sounds wrong even though they used the bridge/middle on a strat on that song's intro. But if you play it on a strat with a non RWRP, it sounds right and has that sound like the original had.

On another forum, there is a guy who took his middle pickup and had it rewound and switched the mags around, and said it sounded much better non RWRP. So he used the same pickups just redid the middle.

Or try a time machine strat out and set the 3 way to use the inbetween sounds and notice the tone doesn't thin out. Then go try most any other strat with a RWRP and the tone sounds thinner in "2" and "4" compared to 1 3 or 5 on the switch.

Maybe I haven't found the right set yet, but out of 7 or 8 sets, I definitely prefer non RWRP so far.

 

[claydots]

Re: RWRP vs non RWRP on a strat

I can comment on the fat 50's. I bought a set and made the same mistake as most do with them. The trick with them is to have them set down almost flush with the pickgaurd.

When I first installed them I was very dissapointed and rechecked everything to make sure I had wired them right. I saw the comment on position on another bbs, tried it (what did I have to lose?) and it worked.

Yes they sound vey thin raised up and vintage saddles don't help either. When the tone gets thin, block saddles and a heavier tremolo block really helps.

 

[midnite_man]

Re: RWRP vs non RWRP on a strat

The 2 and 4 notch positions are part of the beauty of a strat, and are intended more for clean 'quacky' rhythm. Most pickup sets nowadays are RWRP.

One thing you should consider, if you want more options, is a Fralin Blender pot.
That will allow you to get all the traditional sounds, but also lets you blend the neck and bridge together, for more of a middle Tele sound.

+1

I use the tone blender pot in both of my Strats and it's nice having the ability to blend the sometimes-needed extra treble into the neck p.u.'s tone.

 

[Heavy]

Re: RWRP vs non RWRP on a strat

Sigh,.. c'mon guys you aren't getting what I'm saying. I'm only talking about the 2 and 4 positions. Yes the beauty of the strat is in the notch positions for me.

My Fat 50's do not sound thin when used single pickups. ONLY in the combo 2 and 4 positions is where it thins out compared to sets with no RWRP.

Grab a Classic 60 Mexico strat with CS '69 pickups and listen to each of the positions on the switch. The 2 and 4 sound very authentic and like those true vintage sounds. No RWRP on that guitar. Those are one of the thinnest, brightest pickups Fender makes, but in the notch positions the tone doesn't thin like it does on even their hotter/fatter single coils with RWRP.

 

[Stratosphere]

Re: RWRP vs non RWRP on a strat

i thought RWRP started in the 80's...? Also, didn't Strats have 3-way switches until the 70's?

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: RWRP vs non RWRP on a strat

i thought RWRP started in the 80's...? Also, didn't Strats have 3-way switches until the 70's?

Yes and yes again!

 

[lemonman]

Re: RWRP vs non RWRP on a strat

I hear the difference, as well. I think non-RWRP sounds better, especially on mid/bridge. RWRP has this out of phase nasal quality I don't care as much for, like there's a sucked out frequency band (or bands) in the sound.

IMO the only reason for RWRP middle pups is for noise reduction, which admittedly can be a serious issue with strats.

 

[Heavy]

Re: RWRP vs non RWRP on a strat

That's what I'm totally hearin' lemonman! I was starting to think I was crazy. Most everyone says there is no difference, even Lindy Fralin says there's no difference.

But I was hoping it was just the pickups I've been trying and there was a set that would work for me. Having a RWRP is nice for some situations where noise is bad. But I really like those old notched tones of a vintage strat.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: RWRP vs non RWRP on a strat

One thing that's interesting to remember is that this is automatically done on humbuckers, by turning the neck pickup around, so the screw poles are facing the neck. On a strat, they have to make that middle pickup like a flipped neck humbucker.

 

[stevie_bees]

Re: RWRP vs non RWRP on a strat

I have SSL-1's in my Legacy, and I was really impressed with the vintage tones, especially the notch positions, and I put it down to quality pickups. When I fitted my Twangbanger and had to rewire due to a phase problem, I found that mine are non-RW/RP.
never thought about the difference it could cause, but you may well be right.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: RWRP vs non RWRP on a strat

One thing that's interesting to remember is that this is automatically done on humbuckers, by turning the neck pickup around, so the screw poles are facing the neck. On a strat, they have to make that middle pickup like a flipped neck humbucker.

Maybe I'm not quite understanding your point but physically turning the humbucker (or any pickup, including single coils) 180 degrees has no effect on polarity or hum. In and out of phase has nothing to do with the physical location of the pickups.

Turning the pu will affect the tone and output slightly on a humbucker because the screws are now where the slugs were and vice versa, and on a rod magnet single that has an assymetrical stagger because maybe a shorter rod is where a taller rod used to be, etc. But polarity and hum and phasing are not affected at all.

 

[Farkus]

Re: RWRP vs non RWRP on a strat

I heard it's because Antiquities are supposed to be exact replicas of 50's and 60's pickups, and apparently Fender did it that way, so Seymour did too.
You'd know more than I would though, because I've never messed with actual vintage Fender pickups. Were the 60's graybacks opposite the 50's?

IIRC you're correct GJ; Fender has changed a few times over the years.

To the OP, I think the sound that you're hearing is the lack of hum. The tone isn't as obscured. Also, I would imagine there is some frequency cancellation going on when mixing the 2 pickups, but that will occur whether they are RWRP or not, thus my assertion re: the noise.

 

[Simon_F]

Re: RWRP vs non RWRP on a strat

In the Bare Knuckle Pickups FAQ there's a statement that "A stock [i.e. non RW/RP] middle coil will have more mid range on the in between positions of the 5 way selector".

It's been a long time since I played a Strat without an RW/RP middle pup - I can't really remember...