Same pickup, completely different results

[Securb]

I think higher output pickups have a 'feel' that tends to be the same across instruments, even if the tone itself is different.

Without a doubt the dynamics are different which is why I mix things up. There is a certain feel and dynamics you can only get from high output pickups but the range and response from low-mid output pickups seems to have a greater range. I think all pickups have benefits and short comings it is all about finding what ticks the most boxes for what you need at the time. If I could have an 8K pickup where I could flip a switch and turn on a 2nd or 3rd magnet kicking it to 16K it would be in heaven.

 

[Sam SG]

Neck shims this, acoustics that. I think the biggest differences between an HH Strat and Les Paul is the strings are a different length and the pickups are in a different spot.

100%

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Neck shims this, acoustics that. I think the biggest differences between an HH Strat and Les Paul is the strings are a different length and the pickups are in a different spot.

I think it's a combination of everything, but I agree, the biggest factor IME is the position of where the pickups are placed in relation to where the strings are vibrating.

 

[Mincer]

Without a doubt the dynamics are different which is why I mix things up. There is a certain feel and dynamics you can only get from high output pickups but the range and response from low-mid output pickups seems to have a greater range. I think all pickups have benefits and short comings it is all about finding what ticks the most boxes for what you need at the time. If I could have an 8K pickup where I could flip a switch and turn on a 2nd or 3rd magnet kicking it to 16K it would be in heaven.

You can sort of do that with a good boost pedal, or a preamp. My Sterling has a 12dB flat boost built in the push/push volume knob.

 

[uOpt]

The reason why neck shims don't seem to matter probably is that tha vibrations go through the steel screws, which are under high tension.

Those rubber pads that you sometime find under neck plates are probably a different matter.

 

[Sam SG]

I know its inflation, but I am just uncomfortable spending $100-150 on a new pickup. I find that my tastes are close to stock pickups

IMO there is a definite market for pickups no doubt. You build a guitar you need pups.
You buy a guitar that has mega hot pups and you like paf type tones or vise verse. 100% you need a pickup swap. You got a messed up or cheapo pickup that squeels or your a hi gain player and your unpotted pups sqeel like crazy....100% pickup swap( or have yours potted)
BUT!!!! throwing out a number here I would guess 50% of pickups get swapped for one of a few reaons guys who just are in an endless search for a "possible" extra 1% in tone, more a " maybe I can make it even better" thing than an actual tuning to a specific goal....guys who think thier guitar will be better cause they heard( insert fav player)uses a certain pup. OR they are looking to fix thier tone and are searching in the wrong place......like a guy who trys 9 differant pickups in the same axe and is still unhappy....sorry but your probably trying to correct a short coming in the chain sonewere else.
IMO

 

[Top-L]

The reason why neck shims don't seem to matter probably is that tha vibrations go through the steel screws, which are under high tension.

Those rubber pads that you sometime find under neck plates are probably a different matter.

I never thought about it before, but the strings only touch at the nut and the bridge. The neck joint is the farthest away from those points. It probably doesn't matter that much.

 

[Chistopher]

I never thought about it before, but the strings only touch at the nut and the bridge. The neck joint is the farthest away from those points. It probably doesn't matter that much.

If that's your thinking, the mid point between those two points matters quite a bit. It's where the 1st harmonic is

 

[Top-L]

If that's your thinking, the mid point between those two points matters quite a bit. It's where the 1st harmonic is

Yet everyone using shims reports that it has no affect.

We are talking about energy being absorbed by the guitar through two points of contact, not the nodes of a vibrating string. False equivalence.

I think the wood being decoupled at the joint because bolt on has already had the majority of impact.

I am just trying to reason it out like everyone else. No one has the answer, just their opinions.

 

[Sam SG]

Yet everyone using shims reports that it has no affect.

We are talking about energy being absorbed by the guitar through two points of contact, not the nodes of a vibrating string. False equivalence.

I think the wood being decoupled at the joint because bolt on has already had the majority of impact.

I am just trying to reason it out like everyone else. No one has the answer, just their opinions.

Imo the answer is. Period. A guitar(the wood)either has it or it dont. When Im looking at a guitar....i will put it to my ear and knock on it. I will then grip the neck with my thumb pressing firmly on the back of the neck then drag my thumb down the neck....if it creeks...its a good one. If not its a dead peace of wood put it back. You can throw pretty paint and exoensive hardware on a turd but a turd is a turd....even a $3000 turd.
Hardware and pickups can be changed. The common is how the wood resonates. Some dont...could be the neck joint..could be less dry wood....could be grain....could be neck wood and body wood having resonant peaks thst dont match....who knows.

 

[Top-L]

Imo the answer is. Period. A guitar(the wood)either has it or it dont. When Im looking at a guitar....i will put it to my ear and knock on it. I will then grip the neck with my thumb pressing firmly on the back of the neck then drag my thumb down the neck....if it creeks...its a good one. If not its a dead peace of wood put it back. You can throw pretty paint and exoensive hardware on a turd but a turd is a turd....even a $3000 turd.
Hardware and pickups can be changed. The common is how the wood resonates. Some dont...could be the neck joint..could be less dry wood....could be grain....could be neck wood and body wood having resonant peaks thst dont match....who knows.

What I know is that my less resonant guitars give something plugged in that my resonant ones dont.

Acoustic resonance doesn't have anything to do with the plugged in tone, except that the energy making the guitar resonate came from somewhere. The strings.

I have a cheap, incredibly resonant poplar superstrat that is too much of a good thing. Its very warm. But I like practicing with it because it makes more noise at low volume. Most of my guitars are somewhere in the middle between that one and my neck through boat anchor.

 

[Chistopher]

Imo the answer is. Period. A guitar(the wood)either has it or it dont. When Im looking at a guitar....i will put it to my ear and knock on it. I will then grip the neck with my thumb pressing firmly on the back of the neck then drag my thumb down the neck....if it creeks...its a good one. If not its a dead peace of wood put it back. You can throw pretty paint and exoensive hardware on a turd but a turd is a turd....even a $3000 turd.
Hardware and pickups can be changed. The common is how the wood resonates. Some dont...could be the neck joint..could be less dry wood....could be grain....could be neck wood and body wood having resonant peaks thst dont match....who knows.

Buddy, if I did all that rigamarole, I'd keep it to myself.

If we were talking in public and you said those words to me in that order, I'd think you were making fun of me.

Seriously man, do you even like guitars?

 

[Driver Blues]

When Im looking at a guitar.... I will then grip the neck with my thumb pressing firmly on the back of the neck then drag my thumb down the neck....if it creeks...its a good one. If not its a dead peace of wood put it back.

So your make-or-break decision for a guitar is whether the truss rod was last turned clockwise or counterclockwise? That's all a "creek" tells you

 

[GuitarStv]

There are some things I always consider when playing around with a new pickup:
- Every once in a while I just hate everything that I hear when playing guitar. This has nothing to do with the gear or settings. The next day it will all sound fine or even great. But sometimes my brain just decides to be miserable. Dunno why.
- If a pickup is very different from what I'm used to, I need to spend a few days with it before my ears get used to it and I get a hang of the sounds it makes. Going from playing PAFs to a high output pickup? The high output pickup sounds muddy and terrible for a while. Going back to PAFs? Now they're all screechy and bright. Going to single coils? Too dynamic, terrible with gain. Going from singles to PAFs? Everything is too middy.
- Pickup height really makes a huge difference to how much I enjoy the pickup. I often slightly adjust one for weeks before I'm happy with how they work.

And that doesn't even get into how pickups might sound/work differently in different guitars. Basically the whole upshot is that my initial impressions of a pickup are almost always negative . . . and then a couple weeks later I start to like 'em. So I try to never make snap decisions.

 

[Top-L]

There are some things I always consider when playing around with a new pickup:
- Every once in a while I just hate everything that I hear when playing guitar. This has nothing to do with the gear or settings. The next day it will all sound fine or even great. But sometimes my brain just decides to be miserable. Dunno why.
- If a pickup is very different from what I'm used to, I need to spend a few days with it before my ears get used to it and I get a hang of the sounds it makes. Going from playing PAFs to a high output pickup? The high output pickup sounds muddy and terrible for a while. Going back to PAFs? Now they're all screechy and bright. Going to single coils? Too dynamic, terrible with gain. Going from singles to PAFs? Everything is too middy.
- Pickup height really makes a huge difference to how much I enjoy the pickup. I often slightly adjust one for weeks before I'm happy with how they work.

And that doesn't even get into how pickups might sound/work differently in different guitars. Basically the whole upshot is that my initial impressions of a pickup are almost always negative . . . and then a couple weeks later I start to like 'em. So I try to never make snap decisions.

I have learned that when my initial impression is "positive", its usually because there is some gimmick, like it is much brighter, or hotter. More of something is always easier to hear, but what you don't initially hear, is what there is less of. Sometimes it takes a while to realize what you have lost along with what was gained.

Honestly, my tone the past ten years has been moderate/stock humbuckers into an SD-1. The guitar decides where the drive and tone knob needs to be.

 

[Sam SG]

Just saying what my criteria is for a guitar. In my expieriance every good guitar ive ever had do those. Every one that sucked didnt.
If you dont like what I have to say dont listen.
All I know is if the tone of the wood didnt matter we'd be seeing allot more LPs and Strats made putta plywood.
And as far as do I even like guitars....Guitars are tools norhing more nothing less....I dont give a shit about the finish or anything else. If a guitar is inspiring and sounds good it is good. If it aint it aint. Why my last LP got sold while my Faded SG stayed. Thats why outta 30+ strats Ive had only a half handful were great.
Being opinionated?....maybe Ill wear that badge. But if we all want to start getting rude....well let me know.
Edit: after stewing on this a minute im gonna further ramble.
I am a firm believer that the soul of the guitar is the wood....take it or leave it.
For example. 10yrs ago I wanted an SG...went in and tryed a couple after picking up my brown faded it resonated like a bastard more so than any SG on the wall( and allways does no matter how ive changed the setup) After hemming and hawing about money the guys I was with said..." you aint gonna find another one like that". Fast forward a number of years the guitar has heavy wear and i decide I need another so I can retire it. So i buy a really nice SG Jr....this thing sucked sounded brittle as hell. I adjusted itv6 ways too sunday NOTTA....So I trade it in for a Tribute....same axe....same wood hardware puckups everything....cept the neck is thicker and it has a silkscreened torch logo on the head. It sounds decent but thinner....again I have adjusted it 6 ways to sunday...copying my other ones setup...tweaking retweaking.....the okd brown one still resonates more. The old one blooms into feedback on the bridge...the identical newer one does not. Lead bends on the old one are full warm and sweet...the newer one slightly tinny and squeeky sounding.
Now i can give many examples of strats in the same manner.i have had ALLOT of Strats of all manner.
So go ahead do whatever you want i dont care. But I KNOW what it tskes to find ME a guitar that meets MY CRITERIA.. Weather I sound like a freak for my methods or not I dont really give shit. Your opinion matters not to me.
That said Im a bluesy based rock lead player with mostly edge of breakup rythm sounds. And I look for what suites my style. Maybe i forget not everyone has the sane needs as me. Ill give ya that.

 

[Top-L]

Just saying what my criteria is for a guitar. In my expieriance every good guitar ive ever had do those. Every one that sucked didnt.
If you dont like what I have to say dont listen.
All I know is if the tone of the wood didnt matter we'd be seeing allot more LPs and Strats made putta plywood.
And as far as do I even like guitars....Guitars are tools norhing more nothing less....I dont give a shit about the finish or anything else. If a guitar is inspiring and sounds good it is good. If it aint it aint. Why my last LP got sold while my Faded SG stayed. Thats why outta 30+ strats Ive had only a half handful were great.
Being opinionated?....maybe Ill wear that badge. But if we all want to start getting rude....well let me know.

You have an elitist opinion. Only a small percentage of guitars are worthy your attention.

Let me make a crass analogy. Its like a guy who says "I only date girls with big, perfect tits". Without recognizing the other qualities. My opinion is that "its all good". A guitar that is resonating like a mofo is filtering energy from the strings. There is LESS signal getting to the pickups. If that is good or bad is subjective.

We all know that some of the most iconic music was recorded with a guitar made from a reject throw away body.

And of the guitars I've owned, there is absolutely ZERO correlation between price and "mojo" (resonance), or even species. In fact, it dawned on me that lighter guitars, regardless of the wood species, tend to be more resonant. This also makes them warm plugged in. If you have a "dead" guitar, I guarantee if you shave 1/4" from the back to make it thinner like an SG it will get a little more vibe.

The most resonant guitar I've ever owned is a shitty piece of lightweight poplar. Its a bargain bin guitar. It doesn't sound amazing plugged in. Why? Because I play higher gain/metal and it doesn't have as broad/sharp a sound. Its a different EQ for sure. It is very warm, almost absent.

My point is that there is enough evidence that diversity in guitar bodies is a good thing.

The best we can do is to state fact before we get into opinion.

Fact #1- The acoustic resonance of the guitar does not increase the signal to the pickups. Resonance reduces energy to the strings. If you want the longest sustaining, highest output amplified signal, you would make the guitar from a steel slab.

The rest is all opinions.

 

[Sam SG]

Not really an elitest thing at all. I know what I like and I look for that.Whatever the theory on transfer to pickups is I know what Im hearing and I like it.
I dont have the money to have a ton of guitars so the ones I have need to be what I want and need or they get sold/ traded for what does.
Maybe coincidence....but everytime have a nice resonant axe it sounds better plugged in too.
As far as price. I have no highend guitars...custom shop etc.... as a matter of fact one of my fav axes i have is a cheap tele that was stripped with a heat gun.
But im not here for debate. I come to the forum for to talk gear cause I like talking about gear and my findings as a player.
And to be clear here...by resonance Im not solely talking about a guitars vibration you feel in your belly and hand. Im talking resonant tone. Harmonic richness warmth the guitars midrange charecter, its starts at the husk. And yes knock on the body gives you an 85% idea of an axes mid charecter. Is it a dead thug, a hollow clunk a higher mid clunk etc....that tells you the frequency range the husk is resonating at.
But whatever your method is fine too.

 

[AdrianSD]

[...] And yes knock on the body gives you an 85% idea of an axes mid charecter. Is it a dead thug, a hollow clunk a higher mid clunk etc....that tells you the frequency range the husk is resonating at.

This got me interested, can you expand on it, time permitting?

 

[Sam SG]

This got me interested, can you expand on it, time permitting?

Sure. In general if im at a store say looking for a strat lets say. 10 strats generally 2 suck 6 or 7 are everage 1or2 have something special.
As I pick them up I put um up near my ear and give um a quick 2 to 3 knocks with my knucle in differant spots. A dead axe will just have a flat dead thud. Most will be average. But 1 or 2 will have a certain hollow "Cugg" sound. Its a certain depth you can hear. That is what Im looking for.
Im not trying to say other guitars are bad( and seems like everyone is getting iritated)its just when your looking for the best of the bunch. Its a good indicator.
And I can say 1st hand its not just body wood or setup.
I built a strat once alder body fender cs69 pups. I put a 70s maple strat neck on....sounded average. Didnt like the neck shape Tryed a differant 70s maple neck otherwise same thing. Same shim same setup. Imediatly came alive.
Maybe its to do with the 2 woods( body and neck coupling) maybe its the way the truss rod sits within the neck inself. But the differance was clear.
Same for the example of my 2 SGs same axes in everyway. One is good one is magic.