School Me on Pedals + Tube Amps

[ImmortalSix]

I'm a guitar -> amp kind of guy, I never use any pedals, but it seems like everyone using tube amps uses some sort of in-line effects boxes, Overdrive at the very least.

1) Can someone explain what an overdrive pedal "does" for a tube amp? I know that question sounds really self-explanatory and kind of mickey-mouse, but please elaborate if you can

2) What else are common effects that are used (needed?) when running a tube amp?

Right now I play through a 2x12 solid state Fender Ultimate Chorus with onboard reverb, delay, and of course, chorus. I don't need anything more than that really, but I'm upgrading my amp when I get a new job in a few weeks, and I'm trying to solve my dilemma between a VOX ValveTronix amp and a Fender Hot Rod series / Blues Junior.

What I really want to know is why I seem to get by just fine with solid state and 0 pedals (sacrificing tube tone of course) and the majority of tube users run inline effects. I'm just trying to learn and understand this before I spend a wad on an amplifier.

T.I.A.

-Hunter

 

[thespricket]

Re: School Me on Pedals + Tube Amps

1. an OD is really just a way of pushing the amp past what it already does, "turns it up to eleven" if you will. It adds extra gain and volume for boosting solos and such.

2. effects that are pretty basic for guitarists are Delays, Wah, and modulation effects such as Chorus, Flanger, Phaser.

it really depends on the kind of music you play, but i would recomend a delay, wah, and one kind of modulation. id also recomed a basic tube amp. not the valvetronix.

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: School Me on Pedals + Tube Amps

my rig goes like this

guitar - ph3 - weeping demon - ibanez ad9 - modded blues driver - ts9 - amp

yes it's unorthodox placement but IMO it sounds the best that way

but anyhoo, the ts9 is to add extra volume & gain if i need it, the modded BD can kick up the volume even further, add even more gain, and TONS of thickness, and the rest, well, they do what they do

if you play at the same volume all the time, or are able to fiddle with your volume knob mid playing, it's not really necessary, but for me it's more convenient to be able to stomp on something rather than stop playing, twist a knob, and then come back in

plus the whole tone shaping thing, i like to have 3 tones at my disposal per song

 

[noisenet]

Re: School Me on Pedals + Tube Amps

An OD pedal driving a less distorted amp gives much different results from turning the amp's gain up. For example, part of my rig is a modded DSL100. As most of ya'll, know, the DSL has two high gain modes, then there's the clean channel, which also has the "classic" gain mode. Well, while the High Gain modes do sound very good on this amp (Voodoo Deluxe Mod), I've found that I like the sound better if I run the classic gain setting (comparable in gain to my JCM800 2204) and hit it with an OD pedal when I need more gain. It's gives me a fatter tone, and it just "feels" better, more "real".

That being said, each OD pedal has it's own personality and effect on your tone. For example, I use both a Duncan P/U Booster as well as a Boss SD-1 Super Overdrive. Each gives a different vibe to my tone. I keep the P/U Booster set to a slight boost (8 oclock on the dial), which just gives me enough gain to boost my 800-like tone into lead saturation. When I want full on, Malmsteen or VH gain, I, instead, kick the Boss OD. This also gives me a balls out Metal crunch (think Zakk Wylde, he used this pedal until recently).

So if you decide to go this route, your best choice is to hear as many pedals as possible before buying, that way you'll know which is the right pedal for you.

As for effects, that's all up to what you want. I use a Boss Super Chorus to give width to my sound (running into the DSL and a JCM800), a MXR EVH Phase for that effect, and the "Detune" mode on a Whammy II for a chorus-ish effect on cleaner stuff. You may, instead, want a Flanger and a different chorus. The Super Chorus pedal is VERY slight, a widening effect between two amps, not the "swirly" kinda chorus some people like on clean passages. So again, go to a good music store with a wide selection, and try out many pedals to see what you want. I don't use a delay in my rig, although I'm thinking of adding one to the loop in the DSL for some of the more legato phrases I sometimes play. Also, Cliffs of Dover (Eric Johnson) sounds not as cool when played dry.

 

[Cory_Dylan]

Re: School Me on Pedals + Tube Amps

I'm trying to solve my dilemma between a VOX ValveTronix amp and a Fender Hot Rod series / Blues Junior.

What I really want to know is why I seem to get by just fine with solid state and 0 pedals (sacrificing tube tone of course) and the majority of tube users run inline effects. I'm just trying to learn and understand this before I spend a wad on an amplifier.

T.I.A.

-Hunter

First of all, if you think you're doing just fine with what you have, then don't worry about it. But if you were to get one of those amps you mentions, I would most definatly choose the Blues Junior. It's a very nice amp.

Tube amps are completely different from SS. Without getting into tech talk (because I couldn't tell you anything technical), tubes naturally distort as you turn them up. But people like tube amps for many different reasons. Some people like amps with a tube recifier, which makes the amp have much more gain earlier. Some folks like SS rectifiers, becuase they don't break up as easily, and when they do it's a much smoother breakup. (I'm a SS recto guy) I like to have my amp at a volume where with gentle playing I can get cleaner sounds, and with more agressive playing I can get a little breakup from the amp. This is touch sensitivity that is impossible to get from a SS amp. This is becuase the more input into the amp, the more the tubes break up. When an amp is cranked, there will be alot of gain and overdrive. The reason people use overdrive/boost pedals with their tube amps is to further push the amp to get more gain. Say you were to plug a boost pedal into your SS amp, it would only increase the volume. If you were to plug a boost pedal into an overdriven tube amp, it would also add some more gain. Make sense?

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: School Me on Pedals + Tube Amps

Thanks team - I'm not "just fine" with my current amp - I said that wrong...I'm dealing with my current amp but wanting more; I want that tube tone, but if the Vox VT can do it, then I'm cool with that, but if a BJ will make me happier in the long run (no substitute for the real thing, an all tube Fender amp) I want that.

I live in SW Virginia where there's no stores with stuff like this, so I can't (locally) try anything out.

Thanks for the info, gang; I'm a lot more up to speed about overdrive now.

 

[Top Jimmy]

Re: School Me on Pedals + Tube Amps

On the same note:

Why do some people buy these great amps and then use a distortion pedal to provide all the distortion? I see people with nice amps say they play through the clean channel on a Marshall or something, and they use a stomp box for their distortion. That really blows my mind.

I guess I can understand at low volumes because you might not have enough saturation at low volumes, but still...

On topic:
While I'm far from and expert, if you get a tube amp, you need to decide what you need in relation to the amp you get. A OD pushed the amps pre-amp to give you some more bite, etc. A Distortion pedal can kinda do the same thing like a DS-1 for example with the level cranked and distortion at zero kinda does the same thing, but distortions can be used to augment your distortion from the amp or replace it entirely if your amp can't provide what you need.

You like things simple like me: I'd recommend a distortion or OD (depending on the sound you are going for), EQ (to help shape tone some more, plus can be used as a boost), and a delay. Assuming you have reverb on your amp. I really don't use wah's so that isn't required for me.

 

[SOLO GUITAR STEWIE]

Re: School Me on Pedals + Tube Amps

okay heres my list of must haves (still many to get) by catagory.

AMPS
Fender Vibrolux Reverb or bandmaster (cleans/slight od) www.fender.com
Carvin Legacy or V3 for solos and high gain (also good for clean) www.carvin.com
Fender blues junior/HRD (great practice amp/goes well with pedals) www.fender.com

PEDALS

Xotic RC Booster (buffer/tone shaping)
www.prosoundcommunications.com/english (check out vids)

MXR super comp or Barber tone press

Morley Lil Aligator Volume/Ernie Ball Volume (duh...Volume)

Digitech Whammy (pitch effect) www.digitech.com

Crybaby or Vox Wah (duh...wah wah) www.vox.co.uk

Fulltone OCD (overdrive) www.fulltone.com

Ibanez Ts-9 (modded by Stratdeluxer) (overdrive) www.Ibanez.com

Boss DS-1 (modded by B Bent or Stratdeluxer) (distortion) www.bossus.com

SD Lava Box (distortion) www.seymourduncan.com

SD Twin Tube Classic (boost/dist) " "

SD Tweek Fuzz (fuzz) " "

Boss PS-5 super shifter (pitch shifting) www.bossus.com

Line 6 MD-4 or Boss CE-20 (modulation/chorus) www.line6.com " "

Line 6 DL-4 or Boss DD-20 (delay) " "

Line 6 Verbzilla (reverb) " "

BBE Sonic Max (either pedal or rack) (improves overall sound)

I like lots of OD/DIST options so id probably have others around. With chorus, delay, ect im rather traditional so I chose pedals that could offer me several presets on the fly. This list is going to take a long time to complile because of the pricing of some items $200+, but ill add what I can when I can. I hope this helps in your decisions and uderstanding of amps/effects.

here are some useful web sites to check out pedals/amps

www.pedalgeek.com
www.guitargeek.com
www.digitech.com
www.bossus.com
www.tcelectronic.com
www.carvin.com
www.fender.com
www.carlmartin.com
www.jimdunlop.com
www.line6.com
www.fulltone.com
www.toadworks.com
www.zvex.com

others will chime in with more, I hope this helps

chris

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: School Me on Pedals + Tube Amps

Some of us like to run our amps clean, as they sound fab that way
And then use an od using the amps foundation, to get the sound I want.

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: School Me on Pedals + Tube Amps

Here is yet another link for you to get lost in

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navi...2&Ns=Brand|0||P_Description|0&g=guitar&page=1


Most of the pedals on MF's site has some sound clips that you can listen to, to get a ball-park idea what the pedal sounds like !

It will take some time to work through them, but it is a very nice learning curve, if you want to saty at home some evenings and do not feel like going out !

My 2cents

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: School Me on Pedals + Tube Amps

Argh they mucked up my Plexitone there...damn that is one horrid clip....uh

 

[bloodswords]

Re: School Me on Pedals + Tube Amps

i'm a plug+play person as well but currently i'm using a mild overdrive to boost my Marshall JVM, i'm toggling between Ibanez's TS9 & Guyatone's OD2

 

[JohnnyGuitar]

Re: School Me on Pedals + Tube Amps

At reherseal yesterday, I played through a Marshall TSL that stood in the reherseal room. Used the crunch channel for all of the songs we played.
The solo that made my bandmates jaw drop was the one where I stepped on my wah... sometimes effects just do their thing, they surprise the listenners...

I like effects that you can control with your foot - like a wah and a vibe pedal. I feel it adds to your expression not only to the getting weird and cool sounds thing that most guys think effects are good for - toys...

Eruption sounded amazing because it had a gentle touch of a phaser, Gary Moore, SRV and many others got great results from driving their amp with an OD pedal, David Gilmour's use of effects is something to study...

What I'm trying to say is:
Listen to the players you like. Figure out what effects would add something to your tone... actually, try to figure out what effects you can live without then get the rest.

My perfect rig would be - a wah-wah, an overdrive, a vibe pedal and a reverb if the amp doesn't have one (too SRV, I know). Flangers are also fun if you don't overuse them.

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: School Me on Pedals + Tube Amps

I'm definitely a SRV disciple - That's the tone I (and everybody else) want. I already have a VOX wah, and the good sense not to use it :laughing: (I also have an envelope filter I never use anymore, used to be in a big funk band)


From what I have researched, I would get an OD first, a compressor second, then a delay.

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: School Me on Pedals + Tube Amps

I'm definitely a SRV disciple - That's the tone I (and everybody else) want. I already have a VOX wah, and the good sense not to use it :laughing: (I also have an envelope filter I never use anymore, used to be in a big funk band)


From what I have researched, I would get an OD first, a compressor second, then a delay.

Get the tube amp (the JR would work).....Strat > Vox Wah > tS-9 or variant >
Leslie or Univibe Clone > Tubeamp.

I had the valvetronix, good amp, but really didn't have the "feel" of a tube amp FWIW.

 

[Gunny47]

Re: School Me on Pedals + Tube Amps

I barely use effects, but as for the whole thing of effects + tube amps. They just sound better! Like mentioned before, the overdrive pedals really help the tubes kick into higher gain. Pedals feel more responsive and amp like. You can have pedals set on at low gain settings or high gain settings and see how they sound. Dream set up would have to be a good wah, fuzz, light overdrive pedal, univibe into a reverb unit into the amp. Good stuff. Don't know if this was mentioned, but a wah through a cranked tube amp sounds really realyl good. Turns it into a fuzz type thing (the classic example being white room).

 

[jeremy]

Re: School Me on Pedals + Tube Amps

i think you get the best tone with the simplest rig, pedals serve a purpose but i prefer the tone of a guitar-cord-amp setup

 

[baritone]

Re: School Me on Pedals + Tube Amps

okay heres my list of must haves (still many to get) by catagory.

AMPS
Fender Vibrolux Reverb or bandmaster (cleans/slight od) www.fender.com
Carvin Legacy or V3 for solos and high gain (also good for clean) www.carvin.com
Fender blues junior/HRD (great practice amp/goes well with pedals) www.fender.com

PEDALS

Xotic RC Booster (buffer/tone shaping)
www.prosoundcommunications.com/english (check out vids)

MXR super comp or Barber tone press

Morley Lil Aligator Volume/Ernie Ball Volume (duh...Volume)

Digitech Whammy (pitch effect) www.digitech.com

Crybaby or Vox Wah (duh...wah wah) www.vox.co.uk

Fulltone OCD (overdrive) www.fulltone.com

Ibanez Ts-9 (modded by Stratdeluxer) (overdrive) www.Ibanez.com

Boss DS-1 (modded by B Bent or Stratdeluxer) (distortion) www.bossus.com

SD Lava Box (distortion) www.seymourduncan.com

SD Twin Tube Classic (boost/dist) " "

SD Tweek Fuzz (fuzz) " "

Boss PS-5 super shifter (pitch shifting) www.bossus.com

Line 6 MD-4 or Boss CE-20 (modulation/chorus) www.line6.com " "

Line 6 DL-4 or Boss DD-20 (delay) " "

Line 6 Verbzilla (reverb) " "

BBE Sonic Max (either pedal or rack) (improves overall sound)

I like lots of OD/DIST options so id probably have others around. With chorus, delay, ect im rather traditional so I chose pedals that could offer me several presets on the fly. This list is going to take a long time to complile because of the pricing of some items $200+, but ill add what I can when I can. I hope this helps in your decisions and uderstanding of amps/effects.

here are some useful web sites to check out pedals/amps

www.pedalgeek.com
www.guitargeek.com
www.digitech.com
www.bossus.com
www.tcelectronic.com
www.carvin.com
www.fender.com
www.carlmartin.com
www.jimdunlop.com
www.line6.com
www.fulltone.com
www.toadworks.com
www.zvex.com

others will chime in with more, I hope this helps

chris

That's a peculiar list.

 

[SOLO GUITAR STEWIE]

Re: School Me on Pedals + Tube Amps

That's a peculiar list.

hows that?

chris

 

[James Rock]

Re: School Me on Pedals + Tube Amps

There are many other small valve amps other then the blues junior. I own the pro junior (blues little brother) and while it does sound pretty good its needs upgrades to tubes and speaker to really shine which costs money. I would have a look into the VOX AC15CC which can get awesome tone for money and is quite simple (while still having trem and reverb) so would be a good first valve amp. Or if cost is a problem and its for bedroom playing have a look at a few valve 5 watt amps like ones made by crate and gibson.