School me on USA-designed but made overseas pickups

[Seraphial]

Ok, so I'm awaiting my NGD (PRS Satin S2) and when I researched it, it has the PRS 85/15 S pickups. They're based off the US made 85/15's, but the 'S' designation means they're made in Korea, but still based off Paul's design.

So from what I understand, pickup construction is actually pretty simple - bobbins, magnets, wires, etc. A lot comes down to the skill and knowledge of the winder. And from what I understand, pickups are usually constructed from the same materials, regardless of country. So what confuses me is, if a pickup is designed by PRS or even Duncan, what makes a Korean pickup sound 'less good' than a US one?

Just genuinely interested...

 

[devastone]

Re: School me on USA-designed but made overseas pickups

If it is made by someone properly skilled in making pickups and uses all the same materials, it should sound pretty much the same. Of course, there are tolerances and even pickups made by the same person will have some slight variations.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: School me on USA-designed but made overseas pickups

It mostly adds up to cheaper parts and wider tolerances. Most pickups are made by machines these days anyway. But also a lot of these pickups you are talking about aren't the exact same pickup as the American version, there are some variations introduced so that the companies don't have to give recipes to their best products overseas.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: School me on USA-designed but made overseas pickups

An import pickup might sound different than an equivalent US pickup, for a variety of reasons; but not really 'worse.' The biggest difference in cost is the labor. You can infer for yourself the quality of US vs. Korean labor given the different cultures and work environments, but I've never had, say, a Duncan Designed pickup fall apart in my hands. Tough to say whether Korean pickup company employees receive equivalent training etc. to their US counterparts without actually being there.

Materials will also vary vs. US production based on what is available from local suppliers, which may or may not wind up being a noticeable thing. Spotlighting Duncan again, they have said in a vague way there are aspects of say a JB vs. the Korean Duncan Designed version that are only implemented in the US model, and I can tell you the two pickups don't sound quite the same nor give the same meter readings in a consistent way. Could be difference in wind, wire tension and any number of the other things that could not be picked up on...

I do hear wax potting falls short on Duncan Designed pickups to a degree. No experience with PRS.

 

[AlexR]

Re: School me on USA-designed but made overseas pickups

Often the reason for the o/s made pickup is simply exploiting cheaper labour costs. But there are plenty of times where they are trying to hit a pricepoint, so everything gets cheapened. The coatings on wire vary significantly in cost.....its pretty much a 40-50% cheaper rate for some of the coatings, and they do affect tone as the overall dimension changes.

 

[Adieu]

Re: School me on USA-designed but made overseas pickups

Intentionally made worse.

Else it'd hurt business for their senior brand.

If junior brand stuff is accidentally made too well, expect to watch it change or disappear once public recognition hits a critical mass

(This applies to everything not just pickups)

 

[justFred]

Re: School me on USA-designed but made overseas pickups

kent armstrong makes world class pickups in a factory he built in Korea...he works closely with them...he will jump all over you (as much as a laid back guy like him can) if you question the quality and accuracy of the work done in Korea...
PRS guitars made in Korea have an excellent reputation...
You cannot make a blanket statement regarding off shore builds anymore...they can and are producing high grade products...
If you disagree then don't look at where a large percentage of the monitoring equipment used in hospitals comes from...

 

[Darg1911]

Re: School me on USA-designed but made overseas pickups

I don't know if it's still the case but PRS has/had their import pickups made by G&B. They may not be exactly the same as PRS USA made model, but G&B is capable of making good sounding pickups. Godin also has some of their pickups made by G&B and the models that came in my guitars were pretty darn good (humbuckers at least). I have no desire to replace the G&B humbuckers in either of the Godins that I have that have them. The single coils in another Godin were just so-so. Artec and Tonerider also have some good sounding pups. It's not always a simple matter of import pickups = bad. It's often enough more a matter of different. I've had USA made pickups that I didn't care for at all and the materials and/or construction quality really doesn't matter when that's the case. Whatever sounds good is good.

 

[Adieu]

Re: School me on USA-designed but made overseas pickups

There's no insurmountable technical challenge, just a lack of need.

Pickup making ain't that particularly involved, and comes with high margins already, provided you can get customers at US premium pricing.

People make em in America because customers like paying for "made in USA".

 

[Mincer]

Re: School me on USA-designed but made overseas pickups

I don't know if it they are 'intentionally made worse'...I think they are intentionally made 'not the same' so as not to compete with USA models. It doesn't mean they are bad. If you are buying a Duncan Designed HB108, it looks like an Invader, but it doesn't use the word 'Invader' in the marketing and doesn't claim to sound exactly like one. Maybe it sounds better to you, maybe it doesn't.

 

[Adieu]

Re: School me on USA-designed but made overseas pickups

I don't know if it they are 'intentionally made worse'...I think they are intentionally made 'not the same' so as not to compete with USA models. It doesn't mean they are bad. If you are buying a Duncan Designed HB108, it looks like an Invader, but it doesn't use the word 'Invader' in the marketing and doesn't claim to sound exactly like one. Maybe it sounds better to you, maybe it doesn't.

The HB108 was an unpotted distortion with invader screws

And it was also too good for its own good, and has since mostly or entirely been disappeared off the market

 

[Artie]

Re: School me on USA-designed but made overseas pickups

I've had good luck with Duncan Designed's. They've all sounded good to me. I like my MIK guitars also. Korea is almost the new Japan IMHO.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: School me on USA-designed but made overseas pickups

I've had good luck with Duncan Designed's. They've all sounded good to me. I like my MIK guitars also. Korea is almost the new Japan IMHO.

Absolutely agree. So many Japanese guitars nowadays are over-hyped/over-priced, and other Asian countries now make incredible guitars; much better than in prior years.

I did have one Duncan Designed pickup that was very microphonic, but the other sets have all been fine.

 

[Discharged]

Re: School me on USA-designed but made overseas pickups

Intentionally made worse.

Else it'd hurt business for their senior brand.

If junior brand stuff is accidentally made too well, expect to watch it change or disappear once public recognition hits a critical mass

(This applies to everything not just pickups)

If what you're suggesting was true, how do you justify the very existence Fender and Squier, Gibson and Epiphone and Paul Reed Smith and PRS SE lines?

For the record, MMA data show all three budget lines of their respective brands are pretty big cash cows, specially Squier.

/Peter

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: School me on USA-designed but made overseas pickups

'Made worse' and 'cash cow' are not mutually exclusive terms. It's no surprise that more value-focused brands are profitable, and also no surprise that there are certain things in those value-conscious brands that are nerfed (whether out of concern for value, or debasement of the higher end brand.)

Granted nowadays 9/10 Epiphones I've played lately trump the Gibsons they sit next to in build & execution- but still things like materials (zinc vs. steel, thinner chrome, cheaper plastics) often get substituted, lesser quality pickups/electronics are normal, less shaping of the necks, less focus on the setup/fretwork... You'd expect to see all these things in 'import' sub-brands.

 

[AlexR]

Re: School me on USA-designed but made overseas pickups

If what you're suggesting was true, how do you justify the very existence Fender and Squier, Gibson and Epiphone and Paul Reed Smith and PRS SE lines?

For the record, MMA data show all three budget lines of their respective brands are pretty big cash cows, specially Squier.

/Peter

These are mere cases in point for the very argument you are trying to disprove. They are intentionally made to a pricepoint, rather than merely making the same thing as the USA versions.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: School me on USA-designed but made overseas pickups

These are mere cases in point for the very argument you are trying to disprove. They are intentionally made to a pricepoint, rather than merely making the same thing as the USA versions.

In some cases the cheaper version can end up being better than the "real" thing. As other have stated, some of Epi's offerings are better than a comparable Gibson for four times the price. Squiers are often phenomenal instruments as well but they, are as you said, made to a price point. Neither of these things are anything like being "intentionally made worse." Big companies aren't making their lower range models worse to convince people to buy their more expensive products; that isn't how business works.

 

[Adieu]

Re: School me on USA-designed but made overseas pickups

If what you're suggesting was true, how do you justify the very existence Fender and Squier, Gibson and Epiphone and Paul Reed Smith and PRS SE lines?

For the record, MMA data show all three budget lines of their respective brands are pretty big cash cows, specially Squier.

/Peter

That's the exact very justification for their existence.

They are carefully tailored to be tiered in quality. When something becomes too obviously superior to its station in the internal rankings, it gets dumbed down or downgraded to a lower-quality manufacturer, upgraded in name (Squier Japan >> Fender Japan, Squier Mexico >> Fender Mexico) or production is lowered or stopped (Epiphone Japan, Orville)

Alternatively, in some cases, improvements are introduced to the top tier series that are kept out of the lower end (locking tuners and over the top blingification on LTD Deluxe 1000-series, for example).

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: School me on USA-designed but made overseas pickups

I think some are defining 'made worse' as using any materials or methods different than the higher-end guitar, while others are thinking about 'made worse' in terms of likelihood of having a failure or error in construction.

For Squier, I argue the 'dumbing down' that occurred after the initial Japanese run success, was also simultaneous with a vast 'smartening up' of US production quality, after CBS.

 

[Aceman]

Re: School me on USA-designed but made overseas pickups

Some pickups are made in the US. Some are made over seas. Some of the over seas ones sound the same, but a lot sound a little different, or even a lot. The over seas ones cost less generally. In terms of construction quality, there are likely uno differences whatsoever.

Class Dismissed.