Scooped sound question

S

SJ318

New member
Hello,
I have always liked a p'up with a full midrange to it. I therefor dislike a scooped sound. My question is why do so many people like a scooped sound? Does it make your solos stand out better? Is it better for rhythm sounds, like low chugging sounds?
Clearly I am missing something I should know. Anyone care to school an old guy up?
Steve Buffington
 
Re: Scooped sound question

The biggest scoop out of my guitars is my A2P which I use for jazz to get a big, bassy sound. Mids disturb the bass warmth in that application. All my other axes I like grit to them, wether it's neck or bridge.
 
Re: Scooped sound question

Depends on so many things really. Not all scoops are the same.
Some guitars can be naturally congested and a bit dull on the top and bottom edges,,,,and in that case something like a custom5 or even regular custom can really fit the bill perfectly.

Much old-school metal, especially thrash and death used scooped amp settings, but they were generally using mid-compressed pups along with boost-pedals through high-gain compressing preamps and mid-heavy el34 amps,,,,so scooping the mids on the amp and using scooped speakers like t75s was/is good balance.

Yeah there definitely are those guys that completely hollow-out their tone to the point you can't really here the melody with all instruments going,,,,,and barely even when they're isolated.
 
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Re: Scooped sound question

And those with a scooped sound would probably be asking the question in reverse.

Saying 'they like it' or 'it works for them' is about as close as you'll get to a reason for any tonal choice - even yours. If you are the sort of person that has the capability to look from other's point of view then you might be able to gain a better insight. If you are the type that is incapable of considering any one else but your own opinions worthwhile then its pointless going any further.
 
Re: Scooped sound question

I think that a lot of guys like an EVEN tone. That means in a Les Paul, you start out with a low middy boost right out of the wood. Now, you add a mid-scooped pickup[ to that and you get a great even tone. You can then adjust to taste via the amp knob.

As mentioned -that's just one reason
 
Re: Scooped sound question

I'm a midrange guy too, I like a full sound and the punch of mids. Scooped tones never really appealed to me either, Steve. I think scooped tones give better definition & allow the high end to cut thru better when there's a lot of distortion, but I don't use that much distortion.
 
Re: Scooped sound question

dave74 said:
Depends on so many things really. Not all scoops are the same.
Some guitars can be naturally congested and a bit dull on the top and bottom edges,,,,and in that case something like a custom5 or even regular custom can really fit the bill perfectly.

Much old-school metal, especially thrash and death used scooped amp settings, but they were generally using mid-compressed pups along with boost-pedals through high-gain compressing preamps and mid-heavy el34 amps,,,,so scooping the mids on the amp and using scooped speakers like t75s was/is good balance.

Yeah there definitely are those guys that completely hollow-out their tone to the point you can't really here the melody with all instruments going,,,,,and barely even when they're isolated.
Click to expand...

Not all thrash bands did it to that extent. A lot of that started with the Metallica MOP sound and some misinformation of how it was actually achieved. The ingredient for that sound was a Mesa mark amp. The Mesa marks are naturally incredibly mid heavy and squaky in all the wrong frequencies without the GEQ balancing it out a bit. Most people have to scoop out the 700hz band on the geq, to make the amp sound somewhat "normal". Even when you do this on a mark, it doesn't scoop out all
of your mids, nor does it give it a hollow sound unless you go to severe extremes. It makes that particular amp sound balanced. When kids read about this, they assumed you would need to do this on any amp to get that sound, not realizing the scoop was specific to the particular mark amps metallica were using and was a balancing technique. This was taken as a sweeping declaration and is a big mistake since most amps like a standard Marshall or what have you, already have this sort of mid scoop by design to greater or lesser extents.
 
Re: Scooped sound question

And as always - band vs bedroom, stage vs studio, etc...

All change how the kids turn out. You may need or want more, or less, or whatever...
 
Re: Scooped sound question

I had started typing about sounds fighting over midrange, but then thought about how people maybe go OTT dealing with that, ending up with an exagerated scoop that gets tiring real quick.
 
Re: Scooped sound question

If we're talking about bands, for me, it's all about the mix... Solos usually require mids to break out without becoming boomy or harsh.

On the opposite side of the equation, thick mids for rhythm can easily muddy the mix and mask upper bass, keys and ornimental guitar parts.

So for rock, pop, blues and country, I use guitars that shift mids extremely easily...

One of the reasons I love this forum is I'm always looking for better pup combos and mods that make mids (and lows) easily controlled.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
 
Re: Scooped sound question

But by mids what are we talking? High mids? Low mids? Mid mids? For guitar, the range of midrange frequencies covers most of its bandwidth so it's important we clarify and understand what part of the spectrum we are cutting out. For rhythm, sure an over dose of low mids can make it sound muddy, but a good healthy dose of high mids will make it slice through the mix. Most Marshall's by designed are somewhat scooped in the mids, yet are very midrangey amps as paradoxical as it sounds.
 
Re: Scooped sound question

Tom Schultz ( Boston) talked about his approach in a guitar player interview way back in the 70s. He used his wah, not as an effect, but as a real time filter, memorizing positions for specific tones.

He talked about thining lower end mids for rhythm and pointed out he could never do those complex patterns without thinning.

Seems like a good example of being generally aware, but finding the sweetspot by ear.







Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
 
Re: Scooped sound question

I like a scooped sound, but not like late 90s metal scooped. Like PAF scooped. Or Fender Twin. Or early Marshall. The midrange I like is something like a Fender Princeton, or a Custom Custom pickup. Not 'wah in the middle' midrange, though. Everything in moderation.
 
Re: Scooped sound question

AlexR -
No, I am not like that. The whole reason I even asked was so I could try and understand the others position.
Everyone, thank you, all those real and solid answers did explain the reasons others might head that way. And I was talking about the narrow field of "mid" mids.
Clint 55 - a good answer on Jazz sound, never occurred to me.
Mincer, on amps, good comparison, take any PAF wound p'up, stick an A4 in it for "tonal balance" and the Princeton Reverb Re-Issue is the amp for me, set on 6-7 or so for reasonable break up.
Thanks to you all of you, really, I learned a lot in a short space,
Steve Buffington
 
Re: Scooped sound question

John Petrucci says he scoops mids around 00:49:50.
I think there's a gap between Dimebag scooped solidstates and Petrucci's Mesa Boogies
There's a nice sound demo between 1:09:00 forward
 
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Re: Scooped sound question

CondeZL and Joey Voltage -
Thanks for going the extra mile on that clip, fun to watch, instructional, I liked the demos and the Capt. was having way too much fun, what a great gig. I always liked John P. even though I am not a fan, he is really thoughtful about what he does and it shows. Great learning video for me about that sound and style.
Cheers,
Steve Buffington
 
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