SD JB/Jazz vs Suhr SSH+/SSV?

[sumitagarwal]

I bought a Cort G300 which pretty obviously takes inspiration from the Suhr Modern HH.

It comes with the iconic JB/Jazz combo, which is awesome at this price point. Although Suhrs are very often custom orders with varying pickup configurations, it looks like Moderns commonly are configured with an SSV in the neck and an SSH+ in the bridge.

Considering the rest of the design, I wondered if Cort landed on the JB/Jazz combo in part for any similarity to the Suhr combo. Obviously the SD combo predates the Suhr one by decades and is far more well known, so if anything it could be that the Suhr is looking to replicate that, or simply that both landed on similar traits for the needs of modern guitarists.

I know there is more to it than basic specs, but in terms of basic specs we've got:

Suhr SSV Neck:
Resistance: 8
Magnet: Alnico 5
AWG: 42?

SD Jazz Neck:
Resistance: 7.5
Magnet: Alnico 5
AWG: 42

Suhr SSH+:
Resistance: 17
Magnet: Alnico 5
AWG: 42?

SD JB:
Resistance: 16.4
Magnet: Alnico 5
AWG: 43?

So its got my curiosity in just how different these are.

As a side note, the G300 does not feature a RWRP pickup and as a result the inner coil and outer coil split positions are not hum-cancelling. Which is dumb. I'm thinking about a magnet flip and rewiring to fix that. Or maybe I replace the outer coils and inner coils positions with a neck in parallel position and a neck screws + bridge slugs position. What are some favorite HH 5-way schemes around here?

 

[Mincer]

My favorite 5 way switch positions require a magnet flip, but it is documented here. The inner and outer coil positions are slightly quieter, but for me, that is a bonus.

 

[Masta' C]

The SSV/SSH+ and the Jazz/JB are close enough, I'd never bother swapping one for the other.

 

[jeremy]

im guessing those last two wire gauges are incorrect. 16k-17k is probably 44 wire

 

[Teleplayer]

The Suhr SSV neck is warmer and fatter than the Duncan SH2 Jazz neck.

However the SSV neck is around 7.5k, not 8k that Suhr wrote in the specs.

 

[sumitagarwal]

The Suhr SSV neck is warmer and fatter than the Duncan SH2 Jazz neck.

I'd normally consider that a negative for a neck pickup, but maybe it results in a better split?

 

[Archer250]

The SSV is closer to the 59. Let me fill this in for you

Suhr SSV Neck:
Resistance: 8
Magnet: Alnico 5
AWG: 42, Plain Enamel

SD Jazz Neck:
Resistance: 7.5
Magnet: Alnico 5
AWG: 42, Poly

Suhr SSH+:
Resistance: 17
Magnet: Alnico 5
AWG: 44, Poly

SD JB:
Resistance: 16.4 (This is BS btw they're always around 17k or more)
Magnet: Alnico 5
AWG: 44, Poly​

 

[sumitagarwal]

The SSV is closer to the 59. Let me fill this in for you

Suhr SSV Neck:
Resistance: 8
Magnet: Alnico 5
AWG: 42, Plain Enamel

SD Jazz Neck:
Resistance: 7.5
Magnet: Alnico 5
AWG: 42, Poly

Suhr SSH+:
Resistance: 17
Magnet: Alnico 5
AWG: 44, Poly

SD JB:
Resistance: 16.4 (This is BS btw they're always around 17k or more)
Magnet: Alnico 5
AWG: 44, Poly​

So the common Suhr SSV / SSH+ configuration is really just what a 59/JB set is like when made in the Suhr factory?

 

[Archer250]

So the common Suhr SSV / SSH+ configuration is really just what a 59/JB set is like when made in the Suhr factory?

Just from the readings, more or less.

But there's more that goes into a pickup than that. The wind patterns could be (probably are) different, and we know the magnets are different. The actual machines they're wind on are also different, but with modern CNC, you can wind it in any pattern you want anyways.

Guy I know who winds pickups and has repaired countless pickups (from vintage staple P90s to tarbacks to Tom Anderson) said that in general Seymour Duncan and Gibson actually use "higher quality" materials for their pickups than Suhr, but SD also uses more "problematic" bobbins. He did not elaborate on which parts are supposedly "higher quality", but he said that "higher quality" does not necessarily translate to a better sound.

So maybe they're not the same as the readings suggest.

Having played a lot of JBs and a lot of SSH+ and Aldrichs, I tend to agree. The SSH+ sounds noticeably tamer and is more dynamic.

 

[Masta' C]

So the common Suhr SSV / SSH+ configuration is really just what a 59/JB set is like when made in the Suhr factory?

Pretty much, yes.

Some of us tone nerds will argue that they are not exactly the same, but they are essentially what you get when 2 different companies produce pickups with the same core formula using their own parts.

I can EASILY dial the knobs on my amp/pedals to make either one of those sets sound like the other. The differences are subtle and those subtleties tend to disappear even further once in a mix.

 

[sumitagarwal]

I'm seeing folks speculating that the "special" A5 magnets at Suhr are rough cast unoriented ones.

So if that's the case, then UOA5 59/JB set would be even closer to the SSV/SSH+?

 

[Archer250]

Quite frankly I don't feel like their "special" A5 is any special

Older formula maybe, but still an A5

You'll get bigger sound changes out of the length of the bar magnet IMO

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I haven't tried the SSV.

On the SSH+ vs. JB... yeah, they're kind of along the lines, but I don't consider them interchangeable.

Think of the SSH+ as kind of a mix between the JB and the Custom 5. It's leaner than the Custom 5 in the lows, but it has a similar kind of top-end. It's not as devoid of mids as the Custom 5, but it's not all mids like the JB.

Also, the Alnico 5 Suhr use is not unoriented or rough cast. At least visibly. Supposedly, they use a special formulation that resembles the A5 that Fender used in the 50's/60's. I've read they mention it has the tone of a degaussed A5 magnet with a similar kind of vintagey softness, but without the loss of power. That being said, I have not swapped magnets in my SSH+'s to compare. Not that I feel like I need to, since I love them as is.

I like both equally for slightly different tones, honestly. I currently have SSH+'s in both my Les Pauls, but I'm considering swapping one for a JB or for a DiMarzio Breed for variety's sake.

Also, FWIW, my non-trembucker JB's have measured in the mid 16K's most of the time. If not, it's almost always lower, rarely higher. Both my SSH+'s measure 15.9-ish. Not that that's all that meaningful, but that's regarding Archer's experience, but maybe he lives in a hotter and more humid place than me.

 

[sumitagarwal]

I mean... splitting the difference between a JB and a C5 seems like it would be pretty ideal if you ask me

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I mean... splitting the difference between a JB and a C5 seems like it would be pretty ideal if you ask me

It is. I love the pickup. It's super balanced for how overwound it is.

 

[Archer250]

It's very well balanced and responds very well to cleaning up with the volume knob

It actually feels lower output than the JB for that reason

 

[Rex_Rocker]

It's very well balanced and responds very well to cleaning up with the volume knob

It actually feels lower output than the JB for that reason

I actually wouldn't be surprised if it does put out slightly less voltage, and it's not just a feel thing. I don't have a JB around anymore to directly compare, but you're right. It does feel more open, I 100% agree.

If it is, though, it's not in a completely different league. I replaced a 498T with the SSH+, and compared to the 498T, it is noticeably louder. I'd say it is somewhere between the output of the 498T and the JB, leaning more towards the JB. Which I guess is another point to say it fits somewhere betten the C5 and the JB too.

 

[Masta' C]

I mean... splitting the difference between a JB and a C5 seems like it would be pretty ideal if you ask me

The SSH+ is Suhr's best all-around pickup IMO. If I could only have one pickup and it had to be a Suhr, it would definitely be the SSH+ (or DSH+).

 

[Masta' C]

I actually wouldn't be surprised if it does put out slightly less voltage, and it's not just a feel thing. I don't have a JB around anymore to directly compare, but you're right. It does feel more open, I 100% agree.

If it is, though, it's not in a completely different league. I replaced a 498T with the SSH+, and compared to the 498T, it is noticeably louder. I'd say it is somewhere between the output of the 498T and the JB, leaning more towards the JB. Which I guess is another point to say it fits somewhere betten the C5 and the JB too.

I think you're spot on with this. :headbang:

 

[Archer250]

I have half a mind to replace my Thornbucker with a DSH+, but like... I really like the clarity lol