SD T-Top Replicas

[dystrust]

Re: SD T-Top Replicas

People also forget that people didn't like the original PAFs at first either. Some did end up being the magical spools of wire we all know and love, but many were junk. For every magical pickup, there were 20 some odd sets of garbage. I got the chance to play a '60 Les Paul and the owner had to switch the neck and bridge, then eventually replaced them with Pearly Gates and kept the originals so they could increase in value.

I don't know about garbage, but I've played a few PAF sets that weren't anything special. The only 'bad' set I can remember playing was in a '59 ES-335. I don't know what the deal was, but that guitar sounded like muddy crap. Of course the '60 335 hanging next to it sounded great; it's a shame the neck was so **** skinny.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: SD T-Top Replicas

I don't know about garbage, but I've played a few PAF sets that weren't anything special. The only 'bad' set I can remember playing was in a '59 ES-335. I don't know what the deal was, but that guitar sounded like muddy crap. Of course the '60 335 hanging next to it sounded great; it's a shame the neck was so **** skinny.

The thing about the massive lack of quality control from Gibson is the massive range of pickups they could offer, unintentionally of course. I once had a conversation with a luthier who specialized in restoring vintage guitars, he was telling me about how he has had PAFs with 6.2k DCR and ones that had as much as 9.1k DCR. Combined with the fact that with the various and assorted varieties of magnets that ended up in those, it's an excellent playground for coming up with phenomenal pickups.

As for the resurgence in interest in T-Tops, I've heard it's about them reacting better with modern amps. The jury is still out if I quite believe that, I suspect it might be people trying to catch the vintage bandwagon.

But still, I think a T-Top reproduction of a hypothetical perfect set (like the Seth Lovers were to PAFs) would be pretty cool.

 

[AlexR]

Re: SD T-Top Replicas

^ I've only ever tried T-tops recently. Same thing with the next pickup in history, the Shaw. Both have had reputations of being weak, shrill, tinny......ideal replacement fodder.

Having bought 2 sets of T-tops and 1 set of Shaws I wondered why they got such a bad rep. In both cases they were plenty strong enough for rock music, they were balanced and had plenty of sustain/dynamics/depth etc. Essentially both sets did similar type thing to PAF's but with a slightly different tone spectrum.
All I can think is that the people who don't like them are 'butt-rock' fanatics and have to have some high level of distortion for their music.....or they've just never developed the technique to get tone from a guitar.

 

[SJ318]

Re: SD T-Top Replicas

Well,
I am not a "butt-rocker" and I highly value the sound of clean tones. I go for BB King and Bloomfield tones at home. So that is why I am always so picky about some of the questions I have asked.
They (t tops) sounded bad to me when I played hard rock in the latter part of the 60's.
I have about 6 t tops from the 60's and they all sound different, mostly anemic, but 1 of them sounds pretty good, clean and at high volume.
Not as good as any of my Duncans though. I like Seth's, Hybrid, Jazz, WLH, and my favorite t top does not sound as good to MY ears as any of the Duncans I love. The Duncans sound great for clean and loud stage applications.
I hang on to the t tops for time based value. By the time I hit 70 years old they might be worth a bunch.
Steve Buffington

 

[allbutromeo]

Re: SD T-Top Replicas

^ I've only ever tried T-tops recently. Same thing with the next pickup in history, the Shaw. Both have had reputations of being weak, shrill, tinny......ideal replacement fodder.

Having bought 2 sets of T-tops and 1 set of Shaws I wondered why they got such a bad rep. In both cases they were plenty strong enough for rock music, they were balanced and had plenty of sustain/dynamics/depth etc. Essentially both sets did similar type thing to PAF's but with a slightly different tone spectrum.
All I can think is that the people who don't like them are 'butt-rock' fanatics and have to have some high level of distortion for their music.....or they've just never developed the technique to get tone from a guitar.

I have one L.P. with T-Tops and one that originally had Shaws. I think some of the issues are the guitars themselves, my Custom is super bright even after swapping to a Super D and then a Slash set. Also some of it may have been the amps and what players were trying do with them that resulted I'm a lot of the swaps back then

 

[SFW]

SD T-Top Replicas

I had T Tops in a 1974 Les Paul Custom. I remember them sounding pretty good. I replaced them in 1989 with some DiMarzios because that’s what Steve Vai was using. Lol. In the 90s, I discovered the JB and never looking back. Haha! I think a lot of people replaced T Tops in the 70s because amps simply needed help to get into the levels of distortion that was desired at the time. I would say that Gibson is still the top candidate for pickups that get replaced. We live in the golden age of pickups. There are so many great pickups being made these days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Discharged]

Re: SD T-Top Replicas

T-Tops are pretty nice as neck p'ups.

Too bright and wimpy for the bridge position, if you ask me.

The calibration ratio used by the Seth Lover set is really hard to beat.

/Peter

 

[Chistopher]

Re: SD T-Top Replicas

T-Tops are pretty nice as neck p'ups.

This is what I was thinking, SD has a lot of bridge pickups without a purpose made neck match, why not do it the other way around for once?

 

[Aceman]

Re: SD T-Top Replicas

As for the resurgence in interest in T-Tops, I've heard it's about them reacting better with modern amps. The jury is still out if I quite believe that, I suspect it might be people trying to catch the vintage bandwagon.

Let me be the judge, jury and executioner of that statement. Whoever said that is an idiot. The ONLY thing that could make that true is the mild output of them. To that end, I would say that a Duncan Seth, 59, A2P, PG, and Jazz ALL sound better through any amp made after say, 2000, on principle, than a T-Top. Or one made before 2000, for that matter. Low output pups often sound more articulate with Uber-gain. But articulate crap is still crap.

You need to stop listening "them." They have no idea what they are talking about

 

[Aceman]

Re: SD T-Top Replicas

T-Tops are pretty nice as neck p'ups.

/Peter

That is where the one I am keeping is. But again - If I were replacing a neck pickup, I wouldn't be running out and hunting T-Tops down. And I sure as hell wouldn't pay more than $60 for one.

 

[Aceman]

Re: SD T-Top Replicas

Holy monkey eff-nuts!!!!!! The CHEAPEST Gibson T-Top is $149 on the Bay?!?!?!?!?!?!?

:smack:

 

[dystrust]

Re: SD T-Top Replicas

Let me be the judge, jury and executioner of that statement. Whoever said that is an idiot. The ONLY thing that could make that true is the mild output of them. To that end, I would say that a Duncan Seth, 59, A2P, PG, and Jazz ALL sound better through any amp made after say, 2000, on principle, than a T-Top. Or one made before 2000, for that matter. Low output pups often sound more articulate with Uber-gain. But articulate crap is still crap.

You need to stop listening "them." They have no idea what they are talking about

To be fair he did say that he suspected "they" were trying to catch the vintage bandwagon. And I agree with both of you there. You have a lot more experience with T-Tops than I do, but I can't remember every being impressed by one. I've played some good 60s Gibsons like a '64 SG and '67 335 that really stood out, but I suspect those are not the same pickups we're talking about here.

That is where the one I am keeping is. But again - If I were replacing a neck pickup, I wouldn't be running out and hunting T-Tops down. And I sure as hell wouldn't pay more than $60 for one.

Holy monkey eff-nuts!!!!!! The CHEAPEST Gibson T-Top is $149 on the Bay?!?!?!?!?!?!?

:smack:

I wouldn't even pay $60 for one when a 59 or Jazz are in the same ball park (possibly sounding better) for $60 or less.

 

[Starman]

Re: SD T-Top Replicas

What is butt-rock?

 

[blueman335]

Re: SD T-Top Replicas

People also forget that people didn't like the original PAFs at first either. Some did end up being the magical spools of wire we all know and love, but many were junk. For every magical pickup, there were 20 some odd sets of garbage. I got the chance to play a '60 Les Paul and the owner had to switch the neck and bridge, then eventually replaced them with Pearly Gates and kept the originals so they could increase in value.

The windings and magnets were all over the map in original PAF's, making a big difference in sound between them, hence all the interpretations by PU makers based on specific examples. Some combinations were incredible. With T-tops being much more consistent, you're not going to have anywhere near the 'magical' gems like there were with PAF's.

With player's dissatisfaction of T-tops being a catalyst in the demand for aftermarket pickups, how many people do you think are likely to 'get behind this'? A PU maker would have to see some serious demand to justify the development, testing, and marketing costs. They'd also need to feel confident that the reason T-tops are selling for high prices now is because their tones are highly coveted, not simply because they're old and out of production, otherwise they could be sitting on a pile of them in inventory.

Since you feel strongly about this, why not look for a reasonably priced set and report back to us. Maybe we're missing something.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: SD T-Top Replicas

I don't think it's very fair to lump 80s Shaws in with T-Tops. I've owned 2 guitars with Shaws and played lots and lots with T-tops. I just can't get behind the T-Top tone. The Shaws, with proper 500k pots, are killer pickups...the T-Tops are what fueled the pup revolution...for a reason.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: SD T-Top Replicas

I will admit, I fell a bit victim to the hype surrounding T-Tops without having ever played them. But have I have heard good things about Shaw humbuckers, which if I recall properly were designed by Tim to be a "greatest hits" version PAF of sorts, combining what people thought were good about the original Gibson pickups in an attempt to put a stop to the whole "aftermarket pickup" nonsense. What do you guys with first hand experience think? Based on the time period I assume they weren't as all over the map as original PAFs, does Duncan have anything similar?

 

[Wattage]

Re: SD T-Top Replicas

My buddy (ToneMaster Pickups) just wound a set for me based on Mick Ronson's sound, I love them.

I think SD could find a good way to package and sell a quality T-top style pup.

I figure everybody has a sound in their head they need to hear and may or may not match the next person's idea. I had some 70's T-tops that were not so good but that was definitely not the sound I wanted at the time. If I tried that set again who knows?

.

 

[Guitar Rod]

Re: SD T-Top Replicas

The main reason the T-Top was the most replaced pickup was for harder rock you needed a Super Distortion or JB to drive the non-MV amps of the time. In this video the mid-70s T-Tops sounds thin and anemic, but the 68 and 69 LP's sounded epic! IMO nearly as good as the burst PAFs.

 

[dystrust]

Re: SD T-Top Replicas

That is where the one I am keeping is. But again - If I were replacing a neck pickup, I wouldn't be running out and hunting T-Tops down. And I sure as hell wouldn't pay more than $60 for one.

I will admit, I fell a bit victim to the hype surrounding T-Tops without having ever played them. But have I have heard good things about Shaw humbuckers, which if I recall properly were designed by Tim to be a "greatest hits" version PAF of sorts, combining what people thought were good about the original Gibson pickups in an attempt to put a stop to the whole "aftermarket pickup" nonsense. What do you guys with first hand experience think? Based on the time period I assume they weren't as all over the map as original PAFs, does Duncan have anything similar?

They weren't designed as a PAF greatest hits so much as they were Gibson's first attempt at a PAF reissue. Mr. Shaw wasn't allowed to use all of the vintage-correct materials due to cost, so he got as close at he could using modern equivalents. I'm not sure what they used for magents, so I can't be 100% sure what to recommend as far as similar SD pickups. Something like a 59 or Seth would be at least in the same zip code though.

 

[AlexR]

Re: SD T-Top Replicas

I will admit, I fell a bit victim to the hype surrounding T-Tops without having ever played them. But have I have heard good things about Shaw humbuckers, which if I recall properly were designed by Tim to be a "greatest hits" version PAF of sorts, combining what people thought were good about the original Gibson pickups in an attempt to put a stop to the whole "aftermarket pickup" nonsense. What do you guys with first hand experience think? Based on the time period I assume they weren't as all over the map as original PAFs, does Duncan have anything similar?

I have played T-tops - and there is no hype if you like them - of course there is nothing to match them. Listen to people playing mid 60's ES 335's...or indeed early AC/DC - its a grail tone for many and these are t-tops too.

Shaws were, on paper, an attempt to return to more PAF type tone for the Heritage 80 Elite LP model. But thats only on paper. They are about the same strength as T-tops, even a bit more mellow. But where T-tops have a pretty strong mid type bark, the Shaws are a bit sweeter.

The bean counters at Norlin were too cheap to allow the right type of wire, and they use sundry other parts that differ minimally from what PAF's had. They don't really sound the same as the PAF they were trying to get close to - but they have their own place. A little known fact is that the tone-chasing for Brothers In Arms tone starts with a set of Shaws.

And no - Duncan doesn't have anything close. You might get something like it if say you took a neck A2pro unpotted for the bridge.....and then unwound another a few hundred turns for the neck. Maybe add an UOA5 or A3 magnet in both cases.