Searched, could not find info:scatter, loose, tight, normal wind

[SJ318]

Hi,
Never need any gear again, guitar, amp, or pedal.
Am thinking of making a Seth Bridge a little hotter with one coil wound 1 or 2k hotter. Will use a UOA5, or UO,RCA5 for mag.
So, anyone willing to opine just a little on the merits of scatter wind, loose or tight wind, scatter wind normal? I know nothing of how they alter tone. As usual (for me) Am looking for a clean-up-able p'up that is a touch hotter than stock Seth b. with that mysterious description "Bite, Crunchy, Edgy" sound.
I like uneven coil winds, and love Seth's.
So if I ask MJ to make me one, I need some knowledge to explain what I'm after, I need to know a bit about the different winds.
If there is a site you know of that is good, I am happy to go there.
Thanks,
Steve

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Searched, could not find info:scatter, loose, tight, normal wind

Steve, buddy... Dont tie MJ's hands like this. Telling her I want it to sound like this but it must be made like this really limits her options in what she can do. If the pickup sounds perfect do you really care if its a UO mag or a RC mag?

Am thinking of making a Seth Bridge a little hotter with one coil wound 1 or 2k hotter. Will use a UOA5, or UO,RCA5 for mag.
So, anyone willing to opine just a little on the merits of scatter wind, loose or tight wind, scatter wind normal? I know nothing of how they alter tone.

This is all you need to say to her! Call her and tell her exactly this and you will get what you want!

Am looking for a clean-up-able p'up that is a touch hotter than stock Seth b. with that mysterious description "Bite, Crunchy, Edgy" sound.
I like uneven coil winds, and love Seth's.

So if I ask MJ to make me one, I need some knowledge to explain what I'm after, I need to know a bit about the different winds.

No you dont need to know any of this, Thats what MJ is for. Always defer to MJ's experience and knowledge. When you start swapping things like scatter winding its not longer a seth and making a pickup thats not a seth sounds like seth is harder than modifying a seth.

Trust in MJ young padawan.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Searched, could not find info:scatter, loose, tight, normal wind

This is good advice. She will probably suggest something you hadn't thought of. No matter what, it will sound amazing.

 

[darthphineas]

Re: Searched, could not find info:scatter, loose, tight, normal wind

Steve, buddy... Dont tie MJ's hands like this. Telling her I want it to sound like this but it must be made like this really limits her options in what she can do. If the pickup sounds perfect do you really care if its a UO mag or a RC mag?







This is all you need to say to her! Call her and tell her exactly this and you will get what you want!








No you dont need to know any of this, Thats what MJ is for. Always defer to MJ's experience and knowledge. When you start swapping things like scatter winding its not longer a seth and making a pickup thats not a seth sounds like seth is harder than modifying a seth.

Trust in MJ young padawan.

Agreed.

Never ever dictate specs to an established pickup winder.

 

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: Searched, could not find info:scatter, loose, tight, normal wind

Agreed, you don't need to know anything other than how you want it to sound.

 

[hamerfan]

Re: Searched, could not find info:scatter, loose, tight, normal wind

Steve, buddy... Dont tie MJ's hands like this. Telling her I want it to sound like this but it must be made like this really limits her options in what she can do.

This or buy a WLH Bridge.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Searched, could not find info:scatter, loose, tight, normal wind

Am thinking of making a Seth Bridge a little hotter with one coil wound 1 or 2k hotter.

without changing wire there might not be enough room on the bobbin to make one coil 1k hotter, no way there is enough room to make it 2k hotter

So anyone willing to opine just a little on the merits of scatter wind, loose or tight wind, scatter wind normal? I know nothing of how they alter tone.

no duncan humbucker ive ever heard of is scatter wound. they are all machine wound just like a paf and pat # pup. loose winding means you fit less wire on a bobbin and have more potential for feedback if it isnt potted but can be a cool sound for sure.

I like uneven coil winds, and love Seth's.

i would start by making a hybrid of a seth neck and seth bridge which would probably be a great set of pups but wont be higher output. if you want a seth with more output then just tell the custom shop that. mj has made me some over wound antiqutys that are amazing but mine were all symmetrical.

 

[darthphineas]

Re: Searched, could not find info:scatter, loose, tight, normal wind

no duncan humbucker ive ever heard of is scatter wound.

at least, no production model.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Searched, could not find info:scatter, loose, tight, normal wind

i dont know of any standard custom shop model that is hand guided either. obviously you can ask for whatever you want from the custom shop though. is there one that you know to be hand guided?

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Searched, could not find info:scatter, loose, tight, normal wind

no duncan humbucker ive ever heard of is scatter wound.

Out of curiosity, I wonder how much Duncan varies the wind pattern on their Bobbins... Ex., is there a different wind pattern on a JB vs. a Distortion vs. (less directly) a Custom. If they're not scatter wound, is a lot of variation possible?

 

[jeremy]

Re: Searched, could not find info:scatter, loose, tight, normal wind

there is plenty of variation possible in turns per layer and tension. "scatter wound" implies hand guided with a random pattern and while it is a real thing, its mostly used as a marketing term to make people go "oooh and awww"

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Searched, could not find info:scatter, loose, tight, normal wind

Am looking for a clean-up-able p'up that is a touch hotter than stock Seth b. with that mysterious description "Bite, Crunchy, Edgy" sound.
I like uneven coil winds, and love Seth's.

Description sounds like an Angus pickup, or a custom shop Pearly Gates, or perhaps a 58/Custom Hybrid, feel free to insert your own UORCA5 with fries in that.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Searched, could not find info:scatter, loose, tight, normal wind

Tension makes sense. I guess I figured 'turns per layer' would be dictated more by the bobbin size and gauge of the wire/insulation etc. but I guess they're not always necessarily packed in to capacity, so to speak.

 

[darthphineas]

Re: Searched, could not find info:scatter, loose, tight, normal wind

i dont know of any standard custom shop model that is hand guided either. obviously you can ask for whatever you want from the custom shop though. is there one that you know to be hand guided?

didn't say hand-guided. nor standard custom shop. still, when Seymour talks about feeling the wire between his fingers as he winds, are you saying he's not talking about work he's done in the custom shop? like he appears to be doing in this video, at about 19:47

Out of curiosity, I wonder how much Duncan varies the wind pattern on their Bobbins... Ex., is there a different wind pattern on a JB vs. a Distortion vs. (less directly) a Custom. If they're not scatter wound, is a lot of variation possible?

even if they did vary the wind patter between the JB and the Distortion and the Invader and the RTM and the Dokkenbucker, it's not like they'd want to admit it. that's up for the homebrew guys to reverse-engineer them to find out.

there is plenty of variation possible in turns per layer and tension. "scatter wound" implies hand guided with a random pattern and while it is a real thing, its mostly used as a marketing term to make people go "oooh and awww"

meh, I'm not so sure about random. I think there's a method to it for the most part, although I can see newbie winders going totally random before they learn much about the process. once again, there are winders that program CNC winders to scatter wind. places like BKP have made it more of a marketing thing, like other pickup companies think that the Duncan company uses the Leesona as a marketing thing (just repeating what I've heard). but I do totally think that BKP gets a lot of attention and mileage out of the scatterwound marketing, for better or worse - I have stronger opinions on some of the BKP models, but they aren't here to defend themselves. lol!

Description sounds like an Angus pickup, or a custom shop Pearly Gates, or perhaps a 58/Custom Hybrid, feel free to insert your own UORCA5 with fries in that.

cool that you still call it the Angus Young pickup. it's said it's closer to an Antiquity than a PG. I think it might be more like a hotter edgy Seth. maybe it's the aged look that made them think it's more like an Ant.

Tension makes sense. I guess I figured 'turns per layer' would be dictated more by the bobbin size and gauge of the wire/insulation etc. but I guess they're not always necessarily packed in to capacity, so to speak.

adding a bit of tension to 42AWG PE can definitely get up to 10k worth of turns on there. I have one to prove it. and it's scatterwound to boot. check out the Mojotone A4 Hot Classic. best PAF-style A4 I've played so far.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Searched, could not find info:scatter, loose, tight, normal wind

i know the custom shop hand winds single coils but i was still referring to humbuckers. maybe there are cs buckers that are hand guided but ive never seen one i know of

 

[Rand-O-Monium]

Re: Searched, could not find info:scatter, loose, tight, normal wind

Was kinda hoping Zhang would chime in,just for teh Tech stuff...

 

[darthphineas]

Re: Searched, could not find info:scatter, loose, tight, normal wind

i know the custom shop hand winds single coils but i was still referring to humbuckers. maybe there are cs buckers that are hand guided but ive never seen one i know of

Now Jeremy... [emoji41]

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Searched, could not find info:scatter, loose, tight, normal wind

even if they did vary the wind patter between the JB and the Distortion and the Invader and the RTM and the Dokkenbucker, it's not like they'd want to admit it. that's up for the homebrew guys to reverse-engineer them to find out

Guess those home-brew guys must not want to spill the secret to those not willing to put forth the effort themselves, either Enough for me to understand that there's probably a difference, not like I'm going to wind one myself tonight.

(As a side-note I'm sure it wouldn't harm Duncan to claim that the wind pattern was somewhat different... It'd cause people to buy more pickups rather than just swap magnets. Not like they'd have to disclose HOW they were different.)

 

[darthphineas]

Re: Searched, could not find info:scatter, loose, tight, normal wind

Guess those home-brew guys must not want to spill the secret to those not willing to put forth the effort themselves, either Enough for me to understand that there's probably a difference, not like I'm going to wind one myself tonight.

(As a side-note I'm sure it wouldn't harm Duncan to claim that the wind pattern was somewhat different... It'd cause people to buy more pickups rather than just swap magnets. Not like they'd have to disclose HOW they were different.)

Some do, to a degree. A lot of them have their JB-killer. And yeah, people that put the work in can get a little finicky about giving away their tricks for free to just any average Joe. haha!

To the side note: who is to say they are different? Still, are we to believe that a tightwad guitar player would buy another pickup over a few more/less winds if they could spend $5 to swap a mag and get something what might be 97-99% there? LOL!

 

[thanaton]

Re: Searched, could not find info:scatter, loose, tight, normal wind

There must be several hundred boutique winders that are actively in business now. TGP has a stickied master list of every boutique anyone has ever heard of. With all these artisans trying their hand and the voodoo that is scatter winding, I'd think we'd have heard something about the ins and outs of scattering winding, how doing it this way makes it sound like this, scattering it that way makes it sound like that. Nothing.