Serious discussion on pups and opinions on pups?

[WICKED LESTER]

I see here that many including myself take to heart the opinions of others on what pup to try or what pup to avoid.
I wanted to ask lets say one guy here LOVES the JB(this had to be the example due to the fact it is the most popular! :laugh2: )
and uses a certain rig then a new player comes on here and asks, " what pup will give me the whoever tone?"
now the guy who loves the JB may have a peferct guitar/amp/effect setup to really compliment the JB but the guy who has the crate amp,squier guitar tries the JB and HATES it! :smack:
I ask this because i have heard MANY say the JB is a trebly,thin pup and thorugh my rig it sound the opposite.
so how does one help another without owning that same rig as the guy asking the advise?

 

[vinterland]

Re: Serious discussion on pups and opinions on pups?

ummm I'm really trying to understand what your asking. Your wondering how to tell someone that their gear is whats making the pickup sound bad?

 

[tone4days]

Re: Serious discussion on pups and opinions on pups?

good point ... that's why we often ask guys follow-up questions when they come looking for advice ... the kind of sound they are hoping for, the equipment they will use, etc. all inform the decision making process ... and ultimately, you are right, it is going to come down to personal taste ... which is why the 21 day return period is such an awesome customer service policy

i dont think that we have to own the exact same rig to be able to give focused advice .... many of us have been playing a long time and we 'get the general idea' of alot of different kinds of gear ... and alot of advice gets 'bounded' with some other related advice (e.g. "try the C5, but if you find you need more mids, try the CC instead")

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: Serious discussion on pups and opinions on pups?

This is a problem with pickups and advice regarding them. In order to cure this, I like pickup recommendations with pickups compared to other pickups instead of "this tone or that". It's better that we tell you how to improve your current tone. Of course, some generalisations are in order.

 

[WICKED LESTER]

Re: Serious discussion on pups and opinions on pups?

ummm I'm really trying to understand what your asking. Your wondering how to tell someone that their gear is whats making the pickup sound bad?

well i find it difficult to tell the guy with a rig that does not compliment say the JB or whatever pup that it is great for him?
the JB for instance may sound great in my rig but to the guy who has a different rig and touch(real imporatant) the JB may sound like garbage?
I play Lesters and love the JB but the guy with say a ibanez or whatever super strat may not have the same results?

 

[Artie]

Re: Serious discussion on pups and opinions on pups?

One should never take anothers opinion as gospel. You use this as one resource, and weigh it against others. In time, as you listen to certain pups yourself, you start to align your preferences with certain others. Its a learning process that takes time.

On the other hand, if everyone says that Ibby Powersounds sound like dog poo, I probably won't buy one to try it.

 

[Curly]

Re: Serious discussion on pups and opinions on pups?

you will often see qualifying remarks here regarding pickups in different type guitars

there is some helpful info in this regard on the main site

in general, though, I think lots of folks here know that tone will vary according to the particular guitar type - and even slightly from different guitars of the same type

 

[vinterland]

Re: Serious discussion on pups and opinions on pups?

well i find it difficult to tell the guy with a rig that does not compliment say the JB or whatever pup that it is great for him?
the JB for instance may sound great in my rig but to the guy who has a different rig and touch(real imporatant) the JB may sound like garbage?
I play Lesters and love the JB but the guy with say a ibanez or whatever super strat may not have the same results?

Yeah I understand what your saying. I would never tell someone with a solid state amp to go buy an emg 81. The same would go for the JB. Yeah I think its a great pup, but even through a tube amp you can still tell it would definately sound trebly in a solid state amp.

 

[ranalli]

Re: Serious discussion on pups and opinions on pups?

This is a problem with pickups and advice regarding them. In order to cure this, I like pickup recommendations with pickups compared to other pickups instead of "this tone or that". It's better that we tell you how to improve your current tone. Of course, some generalisations are in order.

EXACTLY!!!


I really try to talk pickups with comparisons to other pickups.....more bass than a distortion?? Okay possibly a Custom...etc...


People say stuff like, "oh I want a pickup with a tight low end and a nice treble that cuts through..etc...etc..." but almost any pickup could be that depending on the rest of your rig.


Another thing that is stupid is that so many people say darn near every pickup sounds like a PAF or a "PAF on steroids" etc.....literally for almost every pickup. Not to mention there's no real definitive PAF sound to begin with.


People also tend to recommend their favorites over what would really work for the person.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Serious discussion on pups and opinions on pups?

I try to always take into account amps when I'm giving someone pup advice. But differing rigs make for differing sounds. I am a prime example of a person who the JB didn't work for.

My touch+the guitar+my amp=bad

Whereas

My touch+buddies guitar+my amp=alright

But I'm looking for

My touch+my guitar+my amp= spectacular

The thing is I DO know what the JB is supposed to do, and what it is supposed to sound like. That's what makes the forum a valuable assest to Ducan, b/c WE KNOW.

Luke

 

[some_dude]

Re: Serious discussion on pups and opinions on pups?

When someone suggests something to me, I usually take into account my preceptions of what their tonal goal is.

For instance, if I happen to have similar equipment, or a similar taste in musical styles, I'll give that persons opinion more wieght than someone with gear that's on the opposite end of the tone spectrum and/or is into completely different styles.

I do try to take experience into account though, as some of these low gain jazz/blues/country guys are former rock/punk/metal players, and may have spent more time playing rock/punk/metal than I have.

 

[WITH FULL DISTORTION]

Re: Serious discussion on pups and opinions on pups?

I Personally HAD two experiences with the JB
in both experiences.. i DIdn´t Liked it
not ENOUGH Bass is my first issue, 2nd issue is it is a bright pickup, and it doesn´t match very well with my gear AT all.
and doesn´t match with my Guitar woods too.
Maybe, the JB for a guy that want bright tone, more power than vintage traditional tones and etc FOR BLUES, AND JAZZZ.. WILL LOVE IT, but for me, that already acchieved a TONE in my mind.. it doesn´t suit right for me
I reckon the best qualities of the JB. tight(BUT NOT ENOUGH FOR ME, NOT ENOUGH BECAUSE IT DOESN´T SHAKE WHEN YOU PALM MUTE, THE HEAVYNESS DIDN´T COME IN YOUR FACE), Awesome for Soloing and for clean stuff.
well.. if you wanna bash me, go ahead. I AGREE, ehehehe BUT BE POLITE.
Q
Strange ... i PREFFER Duncan CUSTOM CUSTOM , than the Duncan JB.
to me it sounds Sweeter, crunchier, and have ALMOST perfect tone.
it just lacks the Grinding and tighting BASS sound that i´m STILL Looking FOR.
Q
AND IDONT´WANT MORE BASS, i just want a Tight/Grinding Bass!
3-7-7 And high output of the CC is OK for me.
Any opinions and thoughts on my Comments?
J.P

 

[gripweed]

Re: Serious discussion on pups and opinions on pups?

I think everyone has to realize that everyone has an opinion and you are going to disagree with people sometimes. Changing pickups without having tried them in your guitar or your rig is always going to be a bit of a crapshoot. Thats why Duncan's 21 day policy is so wise.

It would help sometimes if people would give a description of what type of music they play and what kind of rig they use. That doesn't always happen. I also happen to know that high output pickups don't seem to agree with me. Sometimes when I ask advice and specifically say that people still end up recommending them to me. Its all cool. I certainly like to hear what others are using.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Serious discussion on pups and opinions on pups?

The key is you have to know your gear, and the only way to truly know your gear is to play a lot of other gear so you know where it sits on the tone spectrum. If you've only played 4 or 5 different guitars in your life, you have NO IDEA where your guitar fits in the grand tone scheme.

If some guy touts the JB as great in his Les Paul and you have a Les Paul, it's jumping the gun to assume that you will get the same results just because you both have Les Pauls. It may well be that this guy has an average-to-dark sounding LP while YOUR Les Paul, for whatever reason, might be less beefy and unusually bright as LP's go. (I had an LP Elegant with a bite and twang that made all nearby Tele's jealous.) So the JB, being a brighter-than-average overwound bucker, ends up giving you the icepick even with the tone on 3 and you go around telling people this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

Here's another thing -- those who know me from the LP Forum you can stop reading here because you've heard this 8 million times. YOUR PICK is the most overlooked, under-rated piece of gear in the history of guitar playing. It drives me batty to see players spending hundreds, even thousands of dollars on pickups every year in search of the holy grail of beefy tone, and on examining their pick, it turns out to be so thin and flimsy that onion skin paper laughs at it. How can you ever expect to get a wide beefy tone out of a scrawny, sickly pick? If you want a big tone, you need a pick that is thick and doesn't bend.

Then there is your playing technique -- do you pick really close to the bridge or neck? If you pick really close to the bridge, there is no pickup in the world that will give you a big tone. If you're close to the neck, no pickup in the world will give you the country or surf spank/twang you might be looking for.

Then there is string guage. .009's will never sound like .011's or .012's, no matter what pickup, guitar, amp combo you try.

And of course, there is the world of amps, stompboxes, cords, etc. But you get the idea. To paraphrase Sun Tzu...KNOW YOUR (expletive deleted) GEAR!

 

[ranalli]

Re: Serious discussion on pups and opinions on pups?

The thing is I DO know what the JB is supposed to do, and what it is supposed to sound like. That's what makes the forum a valuable assest to Ducan, b/c WE KNOW.

Luke

I don't understand...what is a particular pickup supposed to do??


I know 3 different people who use that pickup for 3 completely different things....so they would all disagree on what it is supposed to do.

 

[Antihero]

Re: Serious discussion on pups and opinions on pups?

Here's another thing -- those who know me from the LP Forum you can stop reading here because you've heard this 8 million times. YOUR PICK is the most overlooked, under-rated piece of gear in the history of guitar playing. It drives me batty to see players spending hundreds, even thousands of dollars on pickups every year in search of the holy grail of beefy tone, and on examining their pick, it turns out to be so thin and flimsy that onion skin paper laughs at it. How can you ever expect to get a wide beefy tone out of a scrawny, sickly pick? If you want a big tone, you need a pick that is thick and doesn't bend.

Then there is your playing technique -- do you pick really close to the bridge or neck? If you pick really close to the bridge, there is no pickup in the world that will give you a big tone. If you're close to the neck, no pickup in the world will give you the country or surf spank/twang you might be looking for.

I dont really agree with the first part unilaterally. Thick picks will make you sound like crap if you pick hard like i do. Kinda gives you an odd twang instead of a beefy tone,and you usually have to set theh action quite high. If you dont pick hard it does make sense. Also i remember reading than Van Halen uses very thin picks and he has pretty big tone,so this isnt always the case.

I do really agree with the where you pick part. I am somewhat suprised that more guitar players dont realize this.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Serious discussion on pups and opinions on pups?

I dont really agree with the first part unilaterally. Thick picks will make you sound like crap if you pick hard like i do. Kinda gives you an odd twang instead of a beefy tone,and you usually have to set theh action quite high. If you dont pick hard it does make sense. Also i remember reading than Van Halen uses very thin picks and he has pretty big tone,so this isnt always the case.

I do really agree with the where you pick part. I am somewhat suprised that more guitar players dont realize this.

If you're getting an "odd twang" with a thick pick, you're digging in too deep with the pick. You don't need to be in the strings up to your knuckles to get a righteous big tone. Pull it out just a little and you'll hear a world of difference, especially if you use really thin strings.

Another secret: With a pick that doesn't bend, you can play faster because you don't have to wait for the pick to flap back into position. Imagine trying to hit a fastball with a bat that's flapping...

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Serious discussion on pups and opinions on pups?

I don't understand...what is a particular pickup supposed to do??


I know 3 different people who use that pickup for 3 completely different things....so they would all disagree on what it is supposed to do.

A JB is SUPPOSED to sound like a hot rodded bucker, that's known for versatility, and a high midrange spike.

Luke

 

[some_dude]

Re: Serious discussion on pups and opinions on pups?

I dont really agree with the first part unilaterally. Thick picks will make you sound like crap if you pick hard like i do. Kinda gives you an odd twang instead of a beefy tone,and you usually have to set theh action quite high.

I use picks that're upto 3mm thick, a somewhat low action, and if you saw me playing you wouldn't think my picking was at all light.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Serious discussion on pups and opinions on pups?

True. You don't have to have a Pete Townsend wind-up to hit the strings hard. It's all about the minimum effort necessary to achieve the desired effect, like baseball players who have that small "compact" swing who can still hit the ball 450 feet.

I use the 2mm Dunlop Stubbies. They are thick but have a nice thickness taper toward the end that kicks the pick back out a little bit with each stroke, allowing you to play a little faster.