Set Thru VS Set Neck?

[KeeperOS]

Re: Set Thru VS Set Neck?

If one has played several examples of either/both construction types certain patterns begin to emerge.

In neck-thru design the body wings do not play AS MUCH an important role in the shaping of the tone as in a typical set-neck guitar. Neck-thru designs have an inherently middier tone as opposed to set-necks (that adds to the rest of the factors that shape the guitar's tone like wood species/pieces, hardware, pickups/electronics etc).
And yes, the posts are mounted on the wings but that's a technicality IME. The majority of the wood that received the resonance of the strings is the neck wood. Plain and simple.

Admittedly I hadn't have the chance to play as many Set-through guitars as Set-necks and Neck-thrus but if I were to describe it it'd be closer to a long-tenon set-neck than a neckthru but still a tad middier (the necks were almost exclusively Maple), perhaps due to the larger glued surface.

FWIW in my own custom guitar I still opted for a long-tenon Set-Neck but I wouldn't kick a Set-through guitar out of bed knowhatImean?

 

[SamusChief]

Re: Set Thru VS Set Neck?

Why do you say it is gimmick if there is difference in construction?

Basically, it will sound like a set neck, but have the sculpted heel of a neck-through. They just don't think that's worth it. Whether or not it is is completely up to you.

 

[Jessie's ghost]

Re: Set Thru VS Set Neck?

Basically, it will sound like a set neck, but have the sculpted heel of a neck-through. They just don't think that's worth it. Whether or not it is is completely up to you.

You are growing wise in the ways of the fiddles, young friend.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Set Thru VS Set Neck?

But really, aren't we all victims of marketing speak? Guitar maker A has to come up with some reason to claim why their product is better than guitar maker B.

It's like a restaurant saying their eggs taste better because the cook uses a whisk to beat them rather than a fork. Then you get a bunch of foodies in there who swear they can detect the difference in the subtle nuances of the texture and flavor.

 

[Jessie's ghost]

Re: Set Thru VS Set Neck?

But really, aren't we all victims of marketing speak? Guitar maker A has to come up with some reason to claim why their product is better than guitar maker B.

It's like a restaurant saying their eggs taste better because the cook uses a whisk to beat them rather than a fork. Then you get a bunch of foodies in there who swear they can detect the difference in the subtle nuances of the texture and flavor.

Yeah. We're mostly hedging our bets on this stuff. You might buy a mahogany guitar because you want it to sound like you imagine mahogany guitars will sound, but you might pick one with so many other variables in play that it doesn't sound like mahogany to you -- it sounds just like one of your basswood and maple guitars, and you don't know why.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Set Thru VS Set Neck?

I even have some recording engineering books and they all say that in the studio the tone is 80% player, 10% instrument, and 10% mic placement.

 

[Jessie's ghost]

Re: Set Thru VS Set Neck?

You forgot the 7% somewhere in there, that can be attributed to the flavor of soda that's most recently been spilled on the console.

But don't forget this is a forum where we talk about the sounds of capacitors of different formulations.

 

[KoreanGuitarMan]

Re: Set Thru VS Set Neck?

Basically, it will sound like a set neck, but have the sculpted heel of a neck-through. They just don't think that's worth it. Whether or not it is is completely up to you.

Yeah, absolutely.

To put things in perspective though, people will argue up and down that the slightly longer tenon on a Les Paul reissue, as compared to that of regular Les Paul Standards, makes no small difference in tone. Those don't even get you a smaller heel, just that extra 3/4-1" extra wood in the neck pocket.

Yet set through, with it's MUCH longer tenon and more comfortable heel, is a gimmick?

If a set through guitar had the words, "Vintage Reissue" stamped on the headstock I bet more people would be into the idea.

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: Set Thru VS Set Neck?

Yeah, absolutely.



Yet set through, with it's MUCH longer tenon and more comfortable heel, is a gimmick?
.

Yes, it is.A gimmick. The great Les Paul Long tenon '59 was designed by intuition and artistry of the original masters to take the best advantage of the body wood and the set neck for tone. Tell me how much they were wrong.
An original '59 is now worth half a million dollars, and not just becasue of rarity, but becasue its the best sounding guitar in the world.
You think your presumptious set through design will satnd the test of time? No, ity won't casue it isn't worth a ducks breath.
If you want a sculpted heel get a neck thru. The set through is balogna. It deminishes both designs- the set neck and the neck through. It is bizarre and counterproductive.

 

[Jessie's ghost]

Re: Set Thru VS Set Neck?

Yes, it is.A gimmick. The great Les Paul Long tenon '59 was designed by intuition and artistry of the original masters to take the best advantage of the body wood and the set neck for tone. Tell me how much they were wrong.
An original '59 is now worth half a million dollars, and not just becasue of rarity, but becasue its the best sounding guitar in the world.
You think your presumptious set through design will satnd the test of time? No, ity won't casue it isn't worth a ducks breath.
If you want a sculpted heel get a neck thru. The set through is balogna. It deminishes both designs- the set neck and the neck through. It is bizarre and counterproductive.

There's more nonsense in this post than I feel like addressing this late at night. You are free to be confused and wrong-headed about new things. Let's leave it at that.

 

[St_Genesius]

Re: Set Thru VS Set Neck?

Sometimes a post is so hilariously crazy that I wonder if the account isn't just a parody of the sort of people who actually think like that.

 

[KoreanGuitarMan]

Re: Set Thru VS Set Neck?

Yes, it is.A gimmick. The great Les Paul Long tenon '59 was designed by intuition and artistry of the original masters to take the best advantage of the body wood and the set neck for tone. Tell me how much they were wrong.
An original '59 is now worth half a million dollars, and not just becasue of rarity, but becasue its the best sounding guitar in the world.
You think your presumptious set through design will satnd the test of time? No, ity won't casue it isn't worth a ducks breath.
If you want a sculpted heel get a neck thru. The set through is balogna. It deminishes both designs- the set neck and the neck through. It is bizarre and counterproductive.

There's more nonsense in this post than I feel like addressing this late at night. You are free to be confused and wrong-headed about new things. Let's leave it at that.

Bah, I'll address it.

1) I never claimed there was anything wrong with the original design of the Les Paul. I claimed that if an extra inch of tenon on a Les Paul worked wonders, that a set though design should yield similar results AND it affords you a smaller heel.

2) Are you nuts? 50's Les Pauls ARE incredibly expensive because of their rarity. If they were common they'd only cost a few grand. Back in the 60's and 70's when 50's Les Pauls were just another old guitar, people modified them and beat them to death. Why? They weren't expensive at all. If they emitted tone sent down from the Lord our God himself, and that was the only reason they fetch hundreds of thousands of dollars today, they would have been expensive as **** back then as well and there might be more of them around today.

Besides, how in the hell would you know a 57 Les Paul has the best tone in the world? How many of them have you played?

3) The set through design will remain a niche because it's likely too expensive to implement in high output production lines for the big guys. If you've seen sloppy set neck joints with a short tenon, imagine how nasty they'd be if the neck joint were 5 inches longer. On top of that, it requires an even longer piece of tone wood which gets more scarce as time goes by. Why do you think Gibson switched to a shorter tenon for their standard production models in the first place? To save money, that's why. I'm not going to argue over whether that makes a big difference in tone because that's been done to death.

4) The set through design does not diminish set neck or neck through designs.

Look at at any old carved top set neck guitar. If you implemented a neck through design on that it would be ugly as hell. Nobody would buy it. The set through design allows more of the neck wood to contact the body of the guitar, theoretically resulting in better coupling for increased resonance, but it is hidden between the top and the back. PLUS you get a smaller heel! What in the hell, exactly, is wrong with that?

Guitar designs aren't sacred or heaven sent, and you didn't design any of them so there's no use getting your panties in a bunch over a new design.

Sometimes a post is so hilariously crazy that I wonder if the account isn't just a parody of the sort of people who actually think like that.

With as poor as his spelling and punctuation are, I think he might just be drunk.

 

[cakire82]

Re: Set Thru VS Set Neck?

I really wasn't expecting see so many posts on this thread.

 

[St_Genesius]

Re: Set Thru VS Set Neck?

Idiocy is entertaining. Watching someone go so quickly from 'I clearly have no idea what you're asking about' to fervent 'this thing you are asking about is terrible' without pausing to gain any personal experience of the thing in question in the interim is, quite frankly, hilarious.

I really wasn't expecting see so many posts on this thread.

 

[KeeperOS]

Re: Set Thru VS Set Neck?

Wow, just wow.

And here I thought Metal guys were by definition open-minded (what with the rest of the world putting us in stereotypes of dirty ugly hairs-for-brains Neanderthals that sacrifice virgins to Satan and beat little kids for money etc...).

Guess I was wrong...

FWIW I could name more flaws in the Les Paul design than anyone ever could name "innovations" plus I really can't see whatever's so special with a '57 Paul's PICKUP MOUNTING RINGS so as to cost as much as some used CARS but then again that's just me...

 

[aleclee]

Re: Set Thru VS Set Neck?

It's being looked at as a gimmick from the perspective of the claims of "better tone". I agree that it's all subjective.

Quoted for truth.

I don't have a whole lot of dog in this fight since all my fave guitars seem to have bolt-neck construction. Even so, I'm amazed at how many of y'all are arguing about the tonal effects of a construction technique that you may not have played. It's true that a bolt-neck will sound different from a set neck . . . which will sound different from a set thru . . . which will sound different from a neck thru. On the other hand, not one of them will sound better in any objective sense of the word.

Like I mentioned earlier, I seem to groove on bolt-neck guitars (particularly EBMM Axis SuperSports and PRS CEs). The way I figured that out was by playing/owning a slew of guitars and learning what I did and did not like. In doing so, I had to overcome a huge prejudice against bolt-neck construction due to some very poor early experiences. It took a lot for my ears and hands to overcome what my eyes were telling me.

Discussions like this one make me shake my head because they take people down a path of hearing with their eyes.

• This guitar doesn't sustain as well because the other one has neck-thru construction
• This guitar sounds richer because it doesn't have a bolt-on neck
• This guitar isn't going to be as balanced because has/lacks a maple top

The best way to figure out if a guitar is right for you is to f'ing play it! Invest the time to run the racks. Learn whether middle pickups interfere with your picking. Figure out if you need a volume knob in a handy place to do swells with your pinkie. Determine if you like the way you sound playing your hero's guitar.

There's no formula. Some folks prefer brighter sounding guitars and darker amps while others go the other way. Some like getting their overdrive from pedals, others from tubes, and still others from DSPs. While it's important to know what your preferences are, keep your mind and options open. I was once a guy who believed that the best way to do my thing was with a set-neck guitar through a tube amp. Now I play a bolt-neck guitar through a modeler.

Never say never. You're probably better off seeking out new possibilities than dismissing the ones before you.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Re: Set Thru VS Set Neck?

Quoted for truth.

I don't have a whole lot of dog in this fight since all my fave guitars seem to have bolt-neck construction. Even so, I'm amazed at how many of y'all are arguing about the tonal effects of a construction technique that you may not have played. It's true that a bolt-neck will sound different from a set neck . . . which will sound different from a set thru . . . which will sound different from a neck thru. On the other hand, not one of them will sound better in any objective sense of the word.

Like I mentioned earlier, I seem to groove on bolt-neck guitars (particularly EBMM Axis SuperSports and PRS CEs). The way I figured that out was by playing/owning a slew of guitars and learning what I did and did not like. In doing so, I had to overcome a huge prejudice against bolt-neck construction due to some very poor early experiences. It took a lot for my ears and hands to overcome what my eyes were telling me.

Discussions like this one make me shake my head because they take people down a path of hearing with their eyes.

• This guitar doesn't sustain as well because the other one has neck-thru construction
• This guitar sounds richer because it doesn't have a bolt-on neck
• This guitar isn't going to be as balanced because has/lacks a maple top

The best way to figure out if a guitar is right for you is to f'ing play it! Invest the time to run the racks. Learn whether middle pickups interfere with your picking. Figure out if you need a volume knob in a handy place to do swells with your pinkie. Determine if you like the way you sound playing your hero's guitar.

There's no formula. Some folks prefer brighter sounding guitars and darker amps while others go the other way. Some like getting their overdrive from pedals, others from tubes, and still others from DSPs. While it's important to know what your preferences are, keep your mind and options open. I was once a guy who believed that the best way to do my thing was with a set-neck guitar through a tube amp. Now I play a bolt-neck guitar through a modeler.

Never say never. You're probably better off seeking out new possibilities than dismissing the ones before you.

Truth. All of this.

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: Set Thru VS Set Neck?

Quoted for truth.

I don't have a whole lot of dog in this fight since all my fave guitars seem to have bolt-neck construction. Even so, I'm amazed at how many of y'all are arguing about the tonal effects of a construction technique that you may not have played. It's true that a bolt-neck will sound different from a set neck . . . which will sound different from a set thru . . . which will sound different from a neck thru. On the other hand, not one of them will sound better in any objective sense of the word.

Like I mentioned earlier, I seem to groove on bolt-neck guitars (particularly EBMM Axis SuperSports and PRS CEs). The way I figured that out was by playing/owning a slew of guitars and learning what I did and did not like. In doing so, I had to overcome a huge prejudice against bolt-neck construction due to some very poor early experiences. It took a lot for my ears and hands to overcome what my eyes were telling me.

Discussions like this one make me shake my head because they take people down a path of hearing with their eyes.

• This guitar doesn't sustain as well because the other one has neck-thru construction
• This guitar sounds richer because it doesn't have a bolt-on neck
• This guitar isn't going to be as balanced because has/lacks a maple top

The best way to figure out if a guitar is right for you is to f'ing play it! Invest the time to run the racks. Learn whether middle pickups interfere with your picking. Figure out if you need a volume knob in a handy place to do swells with your pinkie. Determine if you like the way you sound playing your hero's guitar.

There's no formula. Some folks prefer brighter sounding guitars and darker amps while others go the other way. Some like getting their overdrive from pedals, others from tubes, and still others from DSPs. While it's important to know what your preferences are, keep your mind and options open. I was once a guy who believed that the best way to do my thing was with a set-neck guitar through a tube amp. Now I play a bolt-neck guitar through a modeler.

Never say never. You're probably better off seeking out new possibilities than dismissing the ones before you.

You sound like a guy trying to sell an Edsel. You have a million great points, but at the end of the day, its STILL a gimmick! My work is done here, Over and out.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Set Thru VS Set Neck?

Oh, i thought by 'set through', that he meant 'neck through'.

after seeing it, Im inclined to agree with Pieere..gimmick.
You want either a set neck ( preferabl;y long tenon), for conventional tone, or neck thru for modern sound.
I don't generally like compromises, and I don't like this. For me, it brings nothing appreciably better to the table.

Yes, it is.A gimmick. The great Les Paul Long tenon '59 was designed by intuition and artistry of the original masters to take the best advantage of the body wood and the set neck for tone. Tell me how much they were wrong.
An original '59 is now worth half a million dollars, and not just becasue of rarity, but becasue its the best sounding guitar in the world.
You think your presumptious set through design will satnd the test of time? No, ity won't casue it isn't worth a ducks breath.
If you want a sculpted heel get a neck thru. The set through is balogna. It deminishes both designs- the set neck and the neck through. It is bizarre and counterproductive.

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Further proof that you are either high, completely full of BS, or both. I'll put my money on both. The fact that you can throw assumptions at a neck to body joint design that you yourself have never touched nor seen before, not to mention assumed the OP meant "neck thru" when he did not (which proves you have zero experience with it), baffles my mind.

Are you a snake oil salesman because you sure toss a lot of BS around to make a good living at it. Please, get facts and/or experience before posting anything about anything.

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: Set Thru VS Set Neck?

:banghead::banghead::banghead:



Are you a snake oil salesman because you sure toss a lot of BS around to make a good living at it. Please, get facts and/or experience before posting anything about anything.

I dont have to know one damn fact to look at the thing and know ts BS. like I said before. You can have a million high and mighty so called "legitimate " facts to back up why the thing ought to be a a worthwhile invention, but Its STILL a gimmick. if you don't agree , thats too bad. By the way, what have you got against being high..are you mr . Strait or something?


EDIT- 06-07-11 7;48 am. I apologise. I took a step back and realised Ive become overbearing an obnoxious. I nned to really stop so much ranting here. By dismissing facts, I only meant people can make up all kinds of reasons to support their erroneous ideas. Other people can have a simple opionion based on nothing but intuition and still be correct. I still do belive its a gimmick, but I stated my case in the beggining, and there was no need to grandstand or have the last word like I did. To me, you pro-set thru guys are asking for less of something with the neck thru- less tonewood sound, or Less sustain, just to get a sculpted heeel. I don't like compromises and don't like this, so more power to you, thats my opinion, and like I said, I formed that just by looking at the picture, so please don't try and sell me this 'Edsel' again by presenting your hustlers salespitch. Thanks.