Seth Lover install problem is Gibson ES333

[nickelwound]

Hello to all, I purchased a Seth Lover bridge pickup to install into my Es333 and have had problems. The pickup sounds thin and buzzy and I can't figure out the problem. The original bridge pickup (uncovered 490r) sounds fine when selected alone, the Seth (covered) sounds as described, and both pickups selected is a mixture of bad and good. I have soldered and resoldered grounds, checked my wiring and that seems good as well. The volume pot measures within spec. I recently removed the pickup from the circuit, read the value (8.23k seems ok), and wired direct to the jack. It once again was thin and buzzy. As I lean the covered pole pieces toward the strings the fullness seems to increase but the buzz is still there.
Can I have a bad pickup even though the resistance reads fine? Does the mixture of covered and uncovered pickup create a problem. Does anybody have ideas or a solutions. The pickup sounds like a bad single coil, I expected it to sound more like a Burstbuker which is in a Les Paul I have.
Thanks for your ideas and time
mn

 

[Kommerzbassist]

Re: Seth Lover install problem is Gibson ES333

Did you solder the red and whithe wires together & to ground? Seems like you did... ( In that case, your pup would alwaysbe split)

Btw. welcome to the forum

 

[nickelwound]

Re: Seth Lover install problem is Gibson ES333

It's a 2 conductor pickup a ground and a hot only

mn

 

[Amateur]

Re: Seth Lover install problem is Gibson ES333

I noticed you said bridge PU for both Seth Lover and 490r. What is your neck PU? Did you just swap your PUs without changing any of the wiring in the pots? I suggest you wire the Seth Lover as suggested by the wiring diagram that came with it and check if you have not done so.

 

[flank]

Re: Seth Lover install problem is Gibson ES333

but he said he wired it straight to the jack... this would eliminate any problems with the rest of the wiring

my guess is that it is a shorted pickup, and only one of the coils is working..somehow, the coil connection must of shorted or was broken...in that case, you would just need to exchange it

 

[nickelwound]

Re: Seth Lover install problem is Gibson ES333

Thanks for the replies, the neck p/u is the 490, the bridge is the Seth. Yes, I left the stock wiring where the capacitor is grounded to the pot first, then links to ground through the shield from the tone pot to the volume pot. It's a different way than most schematics/drawings show, but I assume it was still flowing to ground. Could the impedance mismatch be causing an inbalance? Does the cover vs. uncovered thing cause a weird ground issue? Any more ideas?

mn

 

[Amateur]

Re: Seth Lover install problem is Gibson ES333

If you wired the PU according to the schematics that comes with the package and you still have a problem, the only thing I can say is that you may have a bad PU. What you were describing sounds like the two magnets in the PU are lined up incorrectly. It's a rare case but it can happen. Some times the two PUs may have equal output going into the three way switch and they fight against each other, giving you a mteallic sound also; but if you still get this problem when only the Seth Lover is selected, the problem is definitely from that PU's side. You may way to make an exchange and see what happens.

 

[nickelwound]

Re: Seth Lover install problem is Gibson ES333

Thanks amateur, the pickup is not wired as the packaging indicates. It's wired the way the guitar originally came. It worked fine with the original pickups, but now it does not. It's making me crazy. I'm just nervous that if I rewire, the same problem will exist. What about the buzz though, would the misalignment cause that?

mn

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Seth Lover install problem is Gibson ES333

I've had problems mixing Gibsons with Duncans, for whatever reason. I'd suggest yanking out the neck pickup and replacing that with another Seth, 59, PG, or Jazz.

It could be that the polarity or wind direction is different, or some other anomaly.

When you pulled the wiring out to install the pickups, did any wire come loose? Ground perhaps?

 

[Amateur]

Re: Seth Lover install problem is Gibson ES333

If the problem exists when you select the Seth Lover only, you can rewire the pots for that PU only and see if that makes a difference. Like Gearjoneser said, I had also encountered problems even when I tried to mix and match Gibson's own PUs and end up rewiring a portion of the schematics.

 

[Amateur]

Re: Seth Lover install problem is Gibson ES333

Just want to double check one thing. The 490 has its black wire goes to ground, but the Seth Lover's black wire is supposed to go to the pot. Did you get it right?

 

[flank]

Re: Seth Lover install problem is Gibson ES333

how can anything else be the problem but the pickup if he wired the pickup staight to the jack and it still sounded the same? this eliminates all that doesnt it?

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Seth Lover install problem is Gibson ES333

how can anything else be the problem but the pickup if he wired the pickup staight to the jack and it still sounded the same? this eliminates all that doesnt it?

Only if he disconnected everything else from the Seth bridge. If the pickup is wired only to the jack, that'll tell you right away if the pickup is defective.
It does happen. I drove myself crazy one time, trying to figure out why my 59N sounded weak. It turned out to be defective. I was actually surprised!

 

[nickelwound]

Re: Seth Lover install problem is Gibson ES333

Thanks again for all the replies. The Seth WAS wired direct to the jack, nothing else. In both cases the Seth and 490, the shield is going to ground and the other conductor,black, is going to the pot. When the pickup is wired direct, isn't the "no load" on the pickup doing something to create a weird sound anyways? I am going to try my tech. I think its a incompatibility with the Gibson and the SD. But, only one more try at fixing her. If you guys have more ideas let me know. Thanks for everybodies time

mn

 

[tone4days]

Re: Seth Lover install problem is Gibson ES333

... What you were describing sounds like the two magnets in the PU are lined up incorrectly. ...

a humbucker only has one magnet ...

t4d

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Seth Lover install problem is Gibson ES333

a humbucker only has one magnet ...

t4d

Exactly. The Seth Lover has only one magnet, as is the case with 95% of full-size humbuckers. (Only some varieties of high output bridge humbuckers have more than one, like the Invader and Gibson's 500T.)

It doesn't sound like anything is wrong with the pickup since you're getting a good read (8.23k vs. official 8.1k). It's just got to be a wiring problem, plain and simple. Try plugging a short cord into the guitar and measuring the tip and sleeve of the other end of the cord with your multi-meter with everything dimed and the switch set for bridge pu ONLY. You should still get the 8.23k more or less (pickups tend to read a little lower in-circuit). If you get something around 4k, you've got it wired for only one coil. If you get significantly less than 4k, then it's still somehow wired together with the other pickup, even with the selector switch on bridge-only.

Also, there should be ZERO problems mixing Duncans with Gibsons. The only thing that causes brand-mixing problems is if one of the magnets is flipped the wrong way or the wiring is reversed on one of them. Both Gibson and Duncan have their magnets set so the screw coil is magnetically South, as do humbuckers from about 99% of pickup manufacturers.

 

[Amateur]

Re: Seth Lover install problem is Gibson ES333

Not trying to argue, but just want to know.
Can you explain how you cancel out the hum if you have only one magnet?

 

[flank]

Re: Seth Lover install problem is Gibson ES333

its the 2 coils which cancel out the hum, magnets dont have relevance to hum

 

[Amateur]

Re: Seth Lover install problem is Gibson ES333

The coils can still be wound out of phase. Am I correct?

 

[nickelwound]

Re: Seth Lover install problem is Gibson ES333

Just a quick update, talked to my tech and he thought it might be out of phase with itself. Called SD customer service, they agreed on something is wrong with it. No problem on the return, even swap. I put the 498 back in and it worked like a charm. I'm waiting on the new Seth and once I get it I will install and report.

thanks for everyones time!!

mn