Seth Lover Magnet Swap

[majewsky]

Hello! I've recently asked you for recomendations for pup's in my SG. Idecided to go for Seth Lovers because of frettedamericana videos. I love those vintage SGs!

So... I've put CTS pots and some .022µF oil caps, and I almost love these pup's, but...

Neck pickup is a little too dark for rythym playing, but it's great for solos, so if it has a little clearer sound.
Bridge pickup has not enough power for me but the sound is great, so maybe some kind of cross between the A2 and A5?

I was serching this forum for a long time and I've decided to go with few sets:

A3 neck and UOA5 bridge
A4 neck and A8 bridge
A3 neck A5 bridge
UOA5 neck and A8 bridge

Which one would be the best for classic rock and blues? I want to achive sound like AC/DC, Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple and something in that area.

Thanks for help!

 

[hermetico]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

I don't experienced seth lovers personally but, the descriptions that I am reading to other people seem to describe them more bright than you describe and, more articulated or clearer sounding than you describe.

Before going for a magnet swap, I wonder if you have some issue with your rig, which is rolling off frequencies.
What cable are you using?. Have you option to test a low capacitance high quality cable (evidence, vovox, sommer, George L's, etc).
Are you using pedals? which ones? in what order?
Have you the possibility to test a clean buffer pedal?

I bet Blueman (among others) can nail the exact magnets combinations for your case. My preference for those tones is A4, specially at neck.

Since vintage pickups usually have low output, sometimes a bit of help is very welcome. I would try:

1) Set up the gain on your amp lower (to clean up the sound)
2) set a clean buffer or high-quality buffered pedal close to the beginning of your chain.
3) Insert the Wampler Plexi Drive at the end of your gain pedals (after your ods and distos, if you are using some), to nail that mythical plexi sound.
4) Put the cherry over the pie by using a slight touch of Xotic EP Booster after your Plexi and before your delay.

Those vintage pickup/amps were usually boosted with some kind of light germanium overdrive/booster, like the range master, lp-1, microamp or something like. They also benefited of the boost provided by the EchoPlex preamp, since most of them were using such an unit for their delays.

If you have oportunity, try the Mad Professor Ruby Red Booster to:

a) insert a buffer at the beginning of our chain: this should restore signal level, get rid of some impedance issues and restore natural high end. Buffer is internally switchable
b) set the right amount of gain to the rest of the chain, giving body but while maintaining clarity, with the use of the booster section of this pedal.
c) dial more high end with the treble booster section of this pedal, if buffer + booster doesn't give you enough.

The Ruby Red Booster is a very useful wrench placed early in your chain (but, maybe after your wah and fuzz, if it is the case) to get rid of most of those issues .

Just my 2cts

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

Hello! I've recently asked you for recomendations for pup's in my SG. Idecided to go for Seth Lovers because of frettedamericana videos. I love those vintage SGs!

So... I've put CTS pots and some .022µF oil caps, and I almost love these pup's, but...

Neck pickup is a little too dark for rythym playing, but it's great for solos, so if it has a little clearer sound.
Bridge pickup has not enough power for me but the sound is great, so maybe some kind of cross between the A2 and A5?

I was serching this forum for a long time and I've decided to go with few sets:

A3 neck and UOA5 bridge
A4 neck and A8 bridge
A3 neck A5 bridge
UOA5 neck and A8 bridge

Which one would be the best for classic rock and blues? I want to achive sound like AC/DC, Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple and something in that area.

Thanks for help!

For the description given, the one mag combo you should try first is the A4/A8.

For the record, THE mag combo for Page sound in Presence, is UOA5/UOA5.

HTH,

 

[hamerfan]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

I have a Seth Lover pair and an Ant pair as well. I did a lot of auditions and magnet swaps with them. I ended with the Seth Lover Neck and swapped in the Ant mag. This degaussed A2 magnet is clearer than a full A2 and even than a A3. I also discarded bridge mag and put in the RCUO A5. Great combo!
But in the Bridge resides now the Ant Bridge (which has some more windings than the SL bridge) with a full charged A2. I did not use the SLneck A2 ,which seem to be much more stronger than the other A2s i have.
In your case i would first check the whole line as hermetico pointed out. I would hook off the tone pot for the neck an listen to that minor tweak. If that is not enough look into a different magnet.
For the bridge look for an UOA5. This gives you extra beef in the lows and makes the pup louder.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

THE mag combo for Page sound in Presence, is UOA5/UOA5.

+1. That's the next closest mag to an A2, but with more treble, a little more output, and a little firmer low end. It still keeps that rich organic sound and the dynamics. When an A2 isn't quite doing what you want, an UOA5 probably will.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

I agree with Pepe on this one. The A4 or UOA5 in the neck will brighten it up a bit, but it will also give it a little more power. And if you want the bridge to be comparitively stronger/more powerful, you will want an A8 in the bridge. An A5 or UOA5 will sound stronger than the A2, but if you are going to put an A4 or UOA5 in the neck, then that will boost up the power of the neck pup such that you will need the A8 in the bridge to compensate for that.

So:
A4 or UOA5 in the neck (to brighten it),
A8 in the bridge (for more power).

 

[lemonman]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

I would go A3 neck and A4 or one of the A5 types in the bridge. Don't care for A8 at all. The A3 neck would be close to what you're currently getting, just dropping the low mids and adding a little chime up top. The A4/A5 bridge choice depends more on the particular guitar.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

I would go A3 neck and A4 or one of the A5 types in the bridge. Don't care for A8 at all. The A3 neck would be close to what you're currently getting, just dropping the low mids and adding a little chime up top. The A4/A5 bridge choice depends more on the particular guitar.

You may have missed the op when he said..."Bridge pickup has not enough power for me but the sound is great".

Putting an A4 or A5 in the bridge may increase the output very slightly (probably not enough) but they will change the tone pretty dramatically, especially the A5. An A8 will not only boost the output noticably (more than an A4 or A5), but will also keep the tone more similar to what he has (A2) than the A5 (which scoops the heck out of the mids).

We get that you..."Don't care for A8 at all", and that is just your personal preference, but it just so happens that the A8 may be just what the OP wants.

Also, the OP said..."Neck pickup is a little too dark for rythym playing, but it's great for solos, so if it has a little clearer sound". He likes the tone of the neck pup for soloing, but it is a "little" too dark for rhythm. An A3 will dramatically change the tone from an A2. The next step up from an A2 to brighten a pup would be an A4 or a UOA5 without changing the tone so much that he loses what he likes about it for solos.

When giving advice, we need to be more concerned with the poster's wants/needs and recommend what may be in their best interest rather than just what we ourselves like.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

You may have missed the op when he said..."Bridge pickup has not enough power for me but the sound is great".

Putting an A4 or A5 in the bridge may increase the output very slightly (probably not enough) but they will change the tone pretty dramatically, especially the A5. An A8 will not only boost the output noticably (more than an A4 or A5), but will also keep the tone more similar to what he has (A2) than the A5 (which scoops the heck out of the mids).

We get that you..."Don't care for A8 at all", and that is just your personal preference, but it just so happens that the A8 may be just what the OP wants.

Also, the OP said..."Neck pickup is a little too dark for rythym playing, but it's great for solos, so if it has a little clearer sound". He likes the tone of the neck pup for soloing, but it is a "little" too dark for rhythm. An A3 will dramatically change the tone from an A2. The next step up from an A2 to brighten a pup would be an A4 or a UOA5 without changing the tone so much that he loses what he likes about it for solos.

When giving advice, we need to be more concerned with the poster's wants/needs and recommend what may be in their best interest rather than just what we ourselves like.

You tell'em Doc!" :bowdown:

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

Thanks, Pepe.

Kinda looks like I got on my high horse again. Didn't mean to rant.

 

[Natman]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

You may have missed the op when he said..."Bridge pickup has not enough power for me but the sound is great".

Putting an A4 or A5 in the bridge may increase the output very slightly (probably not enough) but they will change the tone pretty dramatically, especially the A5. An A8 will not only boost the output noticably (more than an A4 or A5), but will also keep the tone more similar to what he has (A2) than the A5 (which scoops the heck out of the mids).

We get that you..."Don't care for A8 at all", and that is just your personal preference, but it just so happens that the A8 may be just what the OP wants.

Also, the OP said..."Neck pickup is a little too dark for rythym playing, but it's great for solos, so if it has a little clearer sound". He likes the tone of the neck pup for soloing, but it is a "little" too dark for rhythm. An A3 will dramatically change the tone from an A2. The next step up from an A2 to brighten a pup would be an A4 or a UOA5 without changing the tone so much that he loses what he likes about it for solos.

When giving advice, we need to be more concerned with the poster's wants/needs and recommend what may be in their best interest rather than just what we ourselves like.

Yeah I had the exact same view of Seths as the OP (neck a wee dark, bridge not quite enough but SO yummy). I hate to say it but I tried A4 in my Seths and didn't like the tone as much, it was a lot more bland, less complex than the stock A2. I also tried A3 in them, and it was creamy smooth but no balls (I mean none), it lost some of the crispness for cleans too. I went back to stock personally and just went nuts tewaking the poles and heights to get as close as I could. It was time-consuming but helped a lot. Magnet swaps in this case were more hit-or-miss.

 

[lemonman]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

You may have missed the op when he said..."Bridge pickup has not enough power for me but the sound is great".

Putting an A4 or A5 in the bridge may increase the output very slightly (probably not enough) but they will change the tone pretty dramatically, especially the A5. An A8 will not only boost the output noticably (more than an A4 or A5), but will also keep the tone more similar to what he has (A2) than the A5 (which scoops the heck out of the mids).

We get that you..."Don't care for A8 at all", and that is just your personal preference, but it just so happens that the A8 may be just what the OP wants.

Also, the OP said..."Neck pickup is a little too dark for rythym playing, but it's great for solos, so if it has a little clearer sound". He likes the tone of the neck pup for soloing, but it is a "little" too dark for rhythm. An A3 will dramatically change the tone from an A2. The next step up from an A2 to brighten a pup would be an A4 or a UOA5 without changing the tone so much that he loses what he likes about it for solos.

When giving advice, we need to be more concerned with the poster's wants/needs and recommend what may be in their best interest rather than just what we ourselves like.

I read what he posted, too. For what the OP described IME A3 is more in line for the neck than A4. While A3 is weaker than A2, the ones I've used were not as weak as natman experienced, nor did they perform that way. Plus not going to a stronger mag in the neck makes the balance with A4/A5 bridge mags easier. A4 brings more top end, but it also brings more bass, too.

For the bridge, he wants it to be more powerful, but sound like what he has now, in the vein of classic rock. A8 certainly is way more powerful, but it doesn't sound or feel anything like A2. It has more mids than A5, but changes the nature of the pup just as much, or more than A4 or A5.

What you recommended is certainly an option, but no more valid than mine.

 

[LesPaulPlayer]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

Yeah I had the exact same view of Seths as the OP (neck a wee dark, bridge not quite enough but SO yummy). I hate to say it but I tried A4 in my Seths and didn't like the tone as much, it was a lot more bland, less complex than the stock A2. I also tried A3 in them, and it was creamy smooth but no balls (I mean none), it lost some of the crispness for cleans too. I went back to stock personally and just went nuts tewaking the poles and heights to get as close as I could. It was time-consuming but helped a lot. Magnet swaps in this case were more hit-or-miss.

I've been using stock Seths since 1996 and have always had the same problem. Dark neck, weakish bridge. Just LAST WEEK (after using them since 1996) I dialed in the pup height and polepiece height into something that I NEVER had all these years and now I'm totally satisfied.

I raised the polepiece screws quite a bit on both pickups; a good 2mm above the surface of the covers. I then lowered both pickups from the strings. I haven't measured the heights yet, but resulting tone is full of lively harmonics from both pickups with better sustain and bloom on the higher strings up the neck. Both pickups now have a more hollow tone with more double tone as well with more dynamic touch sensitivity and the balance of volume and tone between both pickups is perfect.

My Seth bridge is now sounding similar to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njhMWnGXx-c

I've concluded that these like to be further from the strings than what I'm used to with, say, '59s or AIIPros. They don't feel "weak" either at these lower settings. Instead, they're even more lively than before.

It feels and sounds like I have brand new pickups again...after 16 years of use.

 

[dlc1953]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

Since there is no EQ info on SD chart for the Ant b. How would you compare it to the Seth? Thinking to get a Ant b put a Uoa5 to fixs the weak stock mag, but get the extra output over the Seth b. I would like it to blend with my Seth neck. Thanks

 

[SJ318]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

MJ suggested an A5 for my Seth Lover to sound like a real PAF, she stopped me midway after I tried to explain what my PAF sounded like and said-You want a Seth Lover. So I bought a Seth Love and it was close, like yours, so I called MJ back and she immediately said "Go with an A5 Mag".
So I swapped 'em out and now I have 4!! Seth Lovers w/an A5 magnet. I have many guitars and still need a few more pick ups. So I am going to call MJ and request a Seth L. w/reverse zebra bobbins and an A5. I need 3 more so I might ask her about a UOA5 in one, but after 60 years on this planet and 45 years of guitar playing and searching for the "perfect" pickup for me, I need look no longer. Also, I might get some grief for this, but i don't care, I like the pickup covers off on my strats, my home made guitars, but I like the covers on my Les Paul.
Also, off topic, nothing is better for me than a jazz SH-2 for the bridge for great natural sounding bright sound. with those 2 pickups separate and together I can get every sound I want. Many people think the A5 is too bright w/a Seth, but again, just for me, it is perfect.
Hope that helps. FWIW,YMMV, and all the other sayings.
Steve Buffington

 

[toneseeker74]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

I once had a Seth bridge and loved the tone and response, but I wanted more output. I swapped in an A8. It became a lot hotter, but it lost the sweet, clear vintage tone. The whole feel/response was too aggressive. I called it the Seth Lover on methamphetamine.

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

A3's in the neck are my favorite.

 

[dlc1953]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

Hey thanks 2 you both! Ya the 8 suggestion I have heard of. But my gut reaction is pretty much what you got I think! You would lose the great sweet uncompressed clean tones. I've tried the UOa5 in a couple of other Hum's and think it's a good half-way between 2&5, I'm a 2 unpotted kind a guy.

 

[toneseeker74]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

My initial thoughts were to suggest A3 in the neck and UOA5 in the bridge. But when I read the posts suggesting adjustments to polepiece and pickup height I refrained from pushing the magnet swap. The cool thing is, all of these tweaks are simple and reversible. From what everyone has recommended so far, I say start with the height and polepiece adjustments. All it costs is a little time. If that still doesn't give you what you want magnets are cheap, and swaps don't take very long at all. Report back once you've done some tweakin!

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

Since there is no EQ info on SD chart for the Ant b. How would you compare it to the Seth? Thinking to get a Ant b put a Uoa5 to fixs the weak stock mag, but get the extra output over the Seth b. I would like it to blend with my Seth neck. Thanks

My word of advice would be UOA5 mags for both the Seth neck and the Ant bridge. For the record, my #2 335 copy has an UOA5 Ant set, which works perfectly for this particular guitar.

I've made several UOA5 Seth sets for Led Zeppelin fans, so I know how an UOA5 Seth neck sounds.

Having said that, for a year or so, I've been kinda having a soft spot for A3 mags in the neck (generally speaking) and in the case of an Ant set, the A3n/UOA5b mag combo is just perfect both output- and tone-wise.

I've even had excellent results w/ Gibson p'ups with this mag combo; '57 Classic/'57 Classic Plus, BB Pro set, BB#1/BB#2 and 490R/490T come to mind.

In the case of a Jazz set, an A3n/A2b mag set works beautifully in a full-hollow w/flatwound strings.

All of the above for the Classic Rock, Blues and Jazz player looking for vintage-y sound and/or vibe from their instruments.

HTH,