Seth Lover Magnet Swap

[MesaTone]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

I put a uoa5 in my neck Seth (I have uoa5's in all my neck pups) and a uoc8 in my bridge Seth. I like this magnet combo in all my 'vintage' sets, as the uoa5 in the neck is that perfect blend of a2 and a5. I play with high gain with all my axii, so the uoc8 (which sounds like a uoa5 on steroids) really cuts through. If I was using less gain on bridge solos, I'd put a uoa5 in. Lt. Kojak is right, a uoa5/uoa5 combo in vintage pups is all Jimmy Page (plus a lot more).

I tried a8 in a Custom, and all I got was the Volbeat rhythm sound, through a variety of amps. The uoc8 is a much better option for a bridge pickup when you want a 'vintage' EQ, but more push. A perfect match to uoa5 in a neck pup for 'vintage' high gain. Won't work with super high gain, a la metal, a little too rounded off for that. But that's not what a Seth is for, there are other SD options for that level of madness.

Peace.

 

[Southbound Suarez]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

Warning Will Robinson, NECRO THREAD.....

I know this is an old post BUT, it is of interest to me because I have an 05' Gibson CS Les Paul SG that I'm getting ready to pull the stock Gibson 57' Classic humbuckers from. I have a (new/unused) Seth Lover humbucker set, and have refined my magnet selection for the SL humber set to the (A3 polished Neck and UOA5 rough cast Bridge) and (UOA5 rough cast Neck and UOA5 rough cast Bridge). I also have a Tom Holmes potted A4 humbucker set as well. I like a vocal, woody, warm, and sweet neck humbucker that can double for a lead pickup as well as rhythm pickup in the neck position. I also liked the UOA5 RC magnet swap that I performed to my 59' Trembucker for my custom built l24 fret lefty PRS guitar as well. I was convinced of the polished A3 neck idea from this thread until I spoke to Dennis @ Addiction-fx who said he didn't like them himself unless he was looking for a "country clean" type of sound which really didn't address my questions regarding (vocal, woody, warm, and sweet) neck humbucker tones.

I'm just looking for confirmation about the A3 polished neck tonal qualities one way or the other. Any input from guys who have had Tom Holmes A4 potted neck/bridge humbuckers in their SG's would also be most welcome indeed.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

I'm just looking for confirmation about the A3 polished neck tonal qualities one way or the other. Any input from guys who have had Tom Holmes A4 potted neck/bridge humbuckers in their SG's would also be most welcome indeed.

Expect to be overwhelmed with responses.

 

[Southbound Suarez]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

Expect to be overwhelmed with responses.

Blueman, what gets me is everywhere I read people say the Tom Holmes A4 pickups are typically 7.4K Neck and 8.4K Bridge and mine are 7.87K Neck and 8.72K Bridge which by all outwards appearances would seem to be a hotter wind. What's up with that? Did Tom have an off day when mine were wound?

FWIW, I never found any videos featuring Tom Holmes A4 humbuckers in an SG other than a web page where a guy discussed having a set in his SG, and possibly a SG video with Tom Holmes Japan humbuckers installed. The closest I can come to hearing a Tom Holmes set in an SG is the Seymour Duncan Saturday Night Special humbucker video.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

Blueman, what gets me is everywhere I read people say the Tom Holmes A4 pickups are typically 7.4K Neck and 8.4K Bridge and mine are 7.87K Neck and 8.72K Bridge which by all outwards appearances would seem to be a hotter wind. What's up with that? Did Tom have an off day when mine were wound?.

My Holmes 450 & 455 are 7.76K & 8.71K respectively. Tom winds necks to 4500 turns and bridges to 4550, hence the model #s. Differences in DCR are most likely due to variations in the batch of wire yours were made with.

BTW, does anybody know of a source for unoriented C8 mags? I've been curious about those for a while now.

 

[SJ318]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

Hi,
I have a post up now in the Pick up Lounge 8/16 for a few days, and I was once a great fan of A5's and then A4's in the bridge with my Seth Lover's.
I recently had to use a tone killing Strat chambered basswood body, and all the p'ups I tried sounded just dead, just awful even. On ThroBaks suggestion (Jon @TBak) an A5 short oriented mag in my Seth bridge fixed it so well I put another of his A5 short mags in my SG R-I '61, and they both are lively, they growl, clear, articulate, great mids, louder to my ear, not boomy, bright but not shrill. These are now my favorites after years of looking. I am sure I'll find other's in the future, but for now, after much swapping, these kill.
Jon charges them so they are at the same level of a new PAF (the A5 short). The way it would have been new in 1959 or so.
Good luck
Steve B.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

My Holmes 450 & 455 are 7.76K & 8.71K respectively. Tom winds necks to 4500 turns and bridges to 4550, hence the model #s. Differences in DCR are most likely due to variations in the batch of wire yours were made with.

BTW, does anybody know of a source for unoriented C8 mags? I've been curious about those for a while now.

Plus slight differences in pattern and tension. Measurements are also increased at higher temps.

Addiction FX had UO C8's, don't know if they still do.

 

[darthphineas]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

Blueman, what gets me is everywhere I read people say the Tom Holmes A4 pickups are typically 7.4K Neck and 8.4K Bridge and mine are 7.87K Neck and 8.72K Bridge which by all outwards appearances would seem to be a hotter wind. What's up with that? Did Tom have an off day when mine were wound?

What's that? Like a 3-6% variance?

What does Holmes say? Does he wind for the DCR or wind for the # of turns? How much variance does he allow (Duncan allows about 10%).

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

You're probably not using the tone control on the neck pickup since it's "too dark"...right?

Unsolder it.

My Telecaster has only a master volume and master tone.

The covered vintage style neck pickup always sounds weak and muffled.

So I rewired it so the tone control is connected directly to the bridge pickup where it solders to the switch.

Brightens and clarifies the neck pickup.

And I still have the tone control when the bridge pickup is selected and when both pickups are combined.

Try it.

Won't cost you a penny.

 

[Southbound Suarez]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

My Holmes 450 & 455 are 7.76K & 8.71K respectively. Tom winds necks to 4500 turns and bridges to 4550, hence the model #s. Differences in DCR are most likely due to variations in the batch of wire yours were made with.

BTW, does anybody know of a source for unoriented C8 mags? I've been curious about those for a while now.

What the numbers 450 and 455 mean are A4 @ 5000 winds and A4 @5500 winds, hence the 450 and 455.

 

[Southbound Suarez]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

Hi,
I have a post up now in the Pick up Lounge 8/16 for a few days, and I was once a great fan of A5's and then A4's in the bridge with my Seth Lover's.
I recently had to use a tone killing Strat chambered basswood body, and all the p'ups I tried sounded just dead, just awful even. On ThroBaks suggestion (Jon @TBak) an A5 short oriented mag in my Seth bridge fixed it so well I put another of his A5 short mags in my SG R-I '61, and they both are lively, they growl, clear, articulate, great mids, louder to my ear, not boomy, bright but not shrill. These are now my favorites after years of looking. I am sure I'll find other's in the future, but for now, after much swapping, these kill.
Jon charges them so they are at the same level of a new PAF (the A5 short). The way it would have been new in 1959 or so.
Good luck
Steve B.

What I've heard now several times is that A4 humbuckers don't always sound good in every guitar most likely due to their fairly flat EQ response but, in some guitars they bring out the best in those guitar's tone woods and sound stellar. In other words they're more picayunish than the other mags. I put up with the crispy edgy lows and highs "and scooped mids" from my 59' humbucker set in my PRS for so long when I swapped out the stock A5's for both UOA5 rough cast, that was the ticket. Slightly rolled off highs and lows whilst boosting the mids, and they're staying. If I were to use A5 magnets, I'd most likely go with a "degaussed" 2.50 long mag over a regular A5, or short A5 as I believe that this is what Lollar and Wagner are both doing with their A5 mag humbuckers. I do appreciate the recommendation however and will remember your proposal. Are your A5 short mags rough or polished?

 

[Southbound Suarez]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

What's that? Like a 3-6% variance?

What does Holmes say? Does he wind for the DCR or wind for the # of turns? How much variance does he allow (Duncan allows about 10%).

Tom is out of pocket until 8/22/16. Tom winds by number of turns which are the last two numbers in his numbering system say f.e. 453 would mean A4 with 5300 turns.

 

[Southbound Suarez]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

You're probably not using the tone control on the neck pickup since it's "too dark"...right?

Unsolder it.

My Telecaster has only a master volume and master tone.

The covered vintage style neck pickup always sounds weak and muffled.

So I rewired it so the tone control is connected directly to the bridge pickup where it solders to the switch.

Brightens and clarifies the neck pickup.

And I still have the tone control when the bridge pickup is selected and when both pickups are combined.

Try it.

Won't cost you a penny.

I haven't installed any humbucker set in my 61' SG set yet BUT, the 57' Classics installed now ain't cutting it.

 

[darthphineas]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

Tom is out of pocket until 8/22/16. Tom winds by number of turns which are the last two numbers in his numbering system say f.e. 453 would mean A4 with 5300 turns.

it'd be interesting to see his response.

would imagine that he's gonna be alright with an average 5% variance in the DCR, especially if he's going by turns.

if for nothing else, what was the temperature of where Holmes took the measurement off the pickup he checked to establish those specs... and what was the temperature where you're were measured. someone else suggested this, but connect your meter, note the DCR, then put the pickup in your hand or putting beneath a work lamp to note any changes.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

What the numbers 450 and 455 mean are A4 @ 5000 winds and A4 @5500 winds, hence the 450 and 455.

Ah, thanks. Didn't realize that but it makes more sense given the DCR. I only was told the model number indicates # of turns. Thought all his pickups were A4.

The Holmes are really great sounding humbuckers, very detailed & also very transparent to the tone of the wood. Just my taste, but for an SG I'd be looking for something a little warmer sounding; SGs have mids but tend to sound bright to me because of the pickup placement.

 

[Southbound Suarez]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

it'd be interesting to see his response.

would imagine that he's gonna be alright with an average 5% variance in the DCR, especially if he's going by turns.

if for nothing else, what was the temperature of where Holmes took the measurement off the pickup he checked to establish those specs... and what was the temperature where you're were measured. someone else suggested this, but connect your meter, note the DCR, then put the pickup in your hand or putting beneath a work lamp to note any changes.

Just took a reading off both of the Tom Holmes neck and bridge humbuckers, and the reading now is: Neck 7.79K & Bridge 8.67K as where previously they read Neck 7.87K & Bridge 8.72K. Even with temperature causing a variance in readings for a 5K wind and a 5.5K wind I'd classify these pups under the "moderate" (and not vintage) output category.

 

[darthphineas]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

Just took a reading off both of the Tom Holmes neck and bridge humbuckers, and the reading now is: Neck 7.79K & Bridge 8.67K as where previously they read Neck 7.87K & Bridge 8.72K. Even with temperature causing a variance in readings for a 5K wind and a 5.5K wind I'd classify these pups under the "moderate" (and not vintage) output category.

sounds like Holmes has gotten himself into quite a pickle with someone.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

Plus slight differences in pattern and tension. Measurements are also increased at higher temps.

Addiction FX had UO C8's, don't know if they still do.

Thanks Blueman; AddictionFX is the only place I've ever seen 'em for sale but they ran out in 2014 and now don't list them, even as an out-of-stock item. I'm waiting to hear back from them.

I'm curious- can differences in pattern affect the reading? Obviously both tension and pattern will impact the tone. I figure that using a lot of tension could actually stretch the wire slightly, maybe enough to change the final reading. But given the same number of turns, would the winding pattern make a difference in the DCR? That never occurred to me.

 

[Southbound Suarez]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

Ah, thanks. Didn't realize that but it makes more sense given the DCR. I only was told the model number indicates # of turns. Thought all his pickups were A4.

The Holmes are really great sounding humbuckers, very detailed & also very transparent to the tone of the wood. Just my taste, but for an SG I'd be looking for something a little warmer sounding; SGs have mids but tend to sound bright to me because of the pickup placement.

Yep ES, if you were to receive say a Tom Holmes 253 humbucker f.e., then it would contain an A2 magnet with 5300 coil wraps. Since Tom is varying up the winds and magnets per customer requests, that fact should reflect on the pickup boxes that are sent with said pups. To my ears the 57' Classics sound more like A5 magnets versus the advertised A2's so they're brittle and edgy to my ears. This reviewer in this article described them to a "T"...
http://www.legendarytones.com/vintage-style-pickups-explored-2/
I personally could have handled the stock A5 magnets in the Seymour 59's if it weren't for the noticeable lack in mids which is why I went with the UOA5. One question I need to ask of Tom that seemingly no one has touched upon is, "Tom, if you use roughcast magnets for a pickup set do you typically use the RC magnets for both positions, and do you think other winders use polished mags in the neck when they broadly advertise "rough cast" magnets used for certain HB sets that they produce?"

ES, I'm with you on the mid situation with an SG since the guitar is all mahogany therefore, would you go with the Seth Lover w/a: #1 (A3 polished long mag Neck & UOA5 roughcast long magnet Bridge) #2 (A4 polished long mag Neck & UOA5 rough cast long mag Bridge) OR #3 (UOA5 rough cast long mag Neck & UOA5 rough cast long mag Bridge)?

As I stated in my intro, I like a vocal, woody, warm, and sweet neck that can easily double for leads just as well as it can for rhythm. I know the UOA5 rough cast long mag will do what I need in the bridge position as I like the slightly rounded highs and lows with the slight mid boost.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Seth Lover Magnet Swap

My favorite neck pickup in an SG is a 70s T-top; I'm told that a lot of their character is due to short A5 mags. And my favorite pairing for humbuckers right now is A4 neck/UA5 bridge. But in your case I might go with UA5 in the neck too, for a little more fullness and bite. In an SG boominess is less of a concern, I think. UA5 will likely give a little more character as well as a bit more push for leads. I'm a big fan of the UA5, and I probably never would've heard of it if not for this forum.