Seth Lover Neck vs Pearly Gates Neck.

[LtKojak]

Re: Seth Lover Neck vs Pearly Gates Neck.

Jason Lollar believes that using rubber tubing to mount the pickups renders them less microphonic than spring mounts, because the rubber dampens vibration more than the springs will. I could see a wood spacer having similar effect in a PAF pickup.

That's simply not the case. The spacer is *not* located at a pivot point.

 

[zenmindbeginner]

Re: Seth Lover Neck vs Pearly Gates Neck.

There is a difference between the neck models

The Pearly Gates has an upper midrange sort of peak to it that is quite strong.
The Seth Lover seems to have a more relaxed peak that's tuned a little higher... smoother but with a bit extended bandwidth.

The unpotted nature of the Seth Lover lends the pickup to have a bit more hi-fi sound to it with more harmonic content than the PGn.

I've always found the PGn to be a smaller sounding pickup than the Seth Lover... smaller sounding but sharper and angrier.

The Seth Lover neck is more laid back and less intense/less forward leaning compared to the more aggressive & edgy Pearly Gates neck.
The Pearly Gates neck has more growl and sizzle compared to the Seth Lover which has more bark and an extended bandwidth.
The attack of the PGn is pitched in the exact middle of the midrange (phone frequencies) with a sharp sort of tail to it's decay and release.
The attack of the Seth Lover neck is pitched lower in the low midrange (warmth and girth) and the tail isn't quite as sharp as the PGn.

The Pearly Gates set can sort of get P-90 and almost strat-like tones with its unique attack and sharpness... the Seth Lover is a dead giveaway thick sounding humbucker.

The Seth Lover is going to sound consistent in any guitar or any rig... the Pearly Gates set is going to match better with certain rigs and guitars.

They both do all sorts of musical styles but the Seth Lover is always going to have a thicker and more hi fi sound to it.
The Pearly Gates is a more versatile pickup that can obtain a variety of tones in a variety of situations... more aggressive and leaner sounding with a strong upper midrange detail.

I used a Deluxe Reverb for the Seth Lover demo and a Vox AC30 for the PG demo... I try and match a pickup to an amplifier that will exploit it's unique sonic signature. The Seth Lover wanted the full bodied sounding Deluxe and the PG wanted the extra chime and detailed mids of the AC30.

You can hear how different the throaty and full Seth Lover neck sounds compared to the articulate and sinewy Pearly Gates neck.

 

[jalguitarman]

Re: Seth Lover Neck vs Pearly Gates Neck.

There is a difference between the neck models

The Pearly Gates has an upper midrange sort of peak to it that is quite strong.
The Seth Lover seems to have a more relaxed peak that's tuned a little higher... smoother but with a bit extended bandwidth.

The unpotted nature of the Seth Lover lends the pickup to have a bit more hi-fi sound to it with more harmonic content than the PGn.

I've always found the PGn to be a smaller sounding pickup than the Seth Lover... smaller sounding but sharper and angrier.

The Seth Lover neck is more laid back and less intense/less forward leaning compared to the more aggressive & edgy Pearly Gates neck.
The Pearly Gates neck has more growl and sizzle compared to the Seth Lover which has more bark and an extended bandwidth.
The attack of the PGn is pitched in the exact middle of the midrange (phone frequencies) with a sharp sort of tail to it's decay and release.
The attack of the Seth Lover neck is pitched lower in the low midrange (warmth and girth) and the tail isn't quite as sharp as the PGn.

The Pearly Gates set can sort of get P-90 and almost strat-like tones with its unique attack and sharpness... the Seth Lover is a dead giveaway thick sounding humbucker.

The Seth Lover is going to sound consistent in any guitar or any rig... the Pearly Gates set is going to match better with certain rigs and guitars.

They both do all sorts of musical styles but the Seth Lover is always going to have a thicker and more hi fi sound to it.
The Pearly Gates is a more versatile pickup that can obtain a variety of tones in a variety of situations... more aggressive and leaner sounding with a strong upper midrange detail.

I used a Deluxe Reverb for the Seth Lover demo and a Vox AC30 for the PG demo... I try and match a pickup to an amplifier that will exploit it's unique sonic signature. The Seth Lover wanted the full bodied sounding Deluxe and the PG wanted the extra chime and detailed mids of the AC30.

You can hear how different the throaty and full Seth Lover neck sounds compared to the articulate and sinewy Pearly Gates neck.

The amp you used in the Seth Lover demo video would explain why I liked the sound of that neck pick up so much. Fender amps just have a certain sound that I really like. All this discussion has me thinking of a full Seth Lover set or a PG bride and Seth in the neck. I wasn't certain what amp you used in the Seth Lover video so I thought I would seek some input. Consequently I have to swap a fully loaded pick-gaurd in my EJ Strat (Pulling out the ones that come w/ the maple neck and putting in the set that come w/ the rosewood model). Then trade this and some other parts to Stratosphere for a set of SD pickups and hopefully a some money on top of it. Otherwise I would have already gotten the PG set. Just haven't had the time with all the overtime I have been working, but it may end up being a good thing as I am reconsidering my options. I honestly liked the sounds you got in both videos but, the Seth Lover video didn't feature the bridge model very much. I do know that I liked the sound of the PG bridge for certain, but that doesn't necessarily mean it would be best for my guitar. I was shocked at how strat-like the clip of you playing cliffs of dover sounded. I am trying to do my homework here so I can hopefully avoid multiple pick up swaps as the shipping costs add up after a while.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Seth Lover Neck vs Pearly Gates Neck.

The Seth pickups are Seymour Duncan's lowest output regular production full-sized humbuckers; there isn't a pickup in that category that is not hotter.

Not exactly true, but close enough...the WLH neck and StagMag are slightly lower output. But for all practical purposes they are the same. The PG has nearly 40% more output than the Seth (in mV).

This is what you are looking for (in order of mV output...low to high):

SM-2n Custom Mini-Humbkr 216
PA-STK1n Parallel Axis Stack 291
SM-2b Custom Mini-Humbkr 327
SM-3n Seymourized Mini-Humbkr 330
SM-3b Seymourized Mini-Humbkr 354
SH-18n Whole Lotta HB Neck 382
SH-3 Stag Mag 389
SH-55n Seth Lover Model Nkl 399
SH-55b Seth Lover Model Nkl 399
SH-18b Whole Lotta HB bridge 440
APH-1n Alnc II Pro Humbuckr 452
APH-2n Slash Alnc II Pro HB 475
SH-8SGn Synyster Gates,&Chr,Neck 491
SH-8n Invader 491
7Str Invader Nk, Pmt 491
8Str Invader Nk, Pmt 491
6Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
7Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
8Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
7Str Sentient Neck, Pmt 499
8Str Sentient Neck, Pmt 499
TB-APH1B Alnc II Trembucker 499
APH-1b Alnc II Pro Humbuckr 499
SH-12 Screamin' Demon 500
TB-12 Screamin' Demon Trembkr 500
SH-2n Jazz Model 501
SH-2n Jazz Model 7-Strg 501
SH-PG1n Pearly Gates 513
PA-TB1n Original Parallel Axis 515
APH-2b Slash Alnc II Pro HB 524
LW-CH2n,LiveWire II,Classic,HB 534
SH-PG1b Pearly Gates 543
TB-PG1b Pearly Gates Trembkr 543
6Str Pegasus Brg. 555
7Str Pegasus Brg, Amt, Soapbar 555
8Str Pegasus Brg, Amt, Soapbar 555
7Str Pegasus Brg, Pmt 555
8Str Pegasus Brg, Pmt 555
Pegasus Trembucker, Bridge 555
SH-2b Jazz Model 571
SH-1n '59 Model 7-Strg 572
SH-11 Custom Custom 574
TB-11 Custom Custom Trembkr 574
Jason Becker - bridge Black 582
Jason Becker - TB bridge Black 582
TB-59 '59 Trembucker 593
SH-1b '59 Model 7-Strg 593
SH-16 59/Custom Hybrid, 625
TB-16 59/Custom Hybrid, 625
SH-14 Custom 5 Black 646
TB-14 Custom 5 Trembkr Black 646
SH-14 Custom 5 7-Str 646
TB-15 Alternative 8 Trembkr Black 651
6Str Nazgûl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
7Str Nazgûl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
8Str Nazgûl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
7Str Nazgûl Brg, Pmt 666
8Str Nazgûl Brg, Pmt 666
Nazgul Trembucker, Bridge 666
PA-TB3b Blues Saraceno Model 694
SH-10n Full Shred 709
SH-10n Full Shred Neck 7-Str 709
SH-10b Full Shred 724
TB-10 Full Shred Trembucker 724
7Str Distortion Nk,Amt, Soapbar 732
8Str Distortion Nk,Amt, Soapbar 732
SH-6n Duncan Distortion 732
7Str Distortion Nk,Pmt 732
8Str Distortion Nk,Pmt 732
SH-4 JB Model 737
TB-4 JB Trembucker 737
SH-4 JB Model 7-Strg 737
PA-TB2b Distortion Parallel Axis 741
Black Winter, HB Neck 744
7Str Black Winter, HB Neck 744
8Str Black Winter, HB Neck 744
PA-TB1b Original Parallel Axis 749
SH-15 Alternative 8 Black 761
Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
7Str Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
8Str Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
Black Winter, TB Bridge 763
SH-5 Duncan Custom 784
TB-5 Duncan Custom Trembkr 784
SH-5 Duncan Custom 7-Strg 784
7Str Distortion Brg, Amt, Soapbar 792
8Str Distortion Brg, Amt, Soapbar 792
SH-6b Duncan Distortion 792
7Str Distortion Brg Pmt 792
8Str Distortion Brg Pmt 792
TB-6 Duncan Distortion Trmbkr 792
SH-8SGb Synyster Gates,&Chr,Brdg 813
7Str Invader Brg, Amt, Soapbar 813
8Str Invader Brg, Amt, Soapbar 813
SH-8b Invader 813
7Str Invader Brg, Pmt 813
8Str Invader Brg, Pmt 813
TB-8SGb Synyster Gates,&Chr,Brdg 813
LW-CH2b,LiveWire II,Classic,HB 936
SH-10b Full Shred Brg 7-Str 958
AHB-3n MickT Blackouts HB Neck Bk 1079
AHB-3n Mick T Blackouts 7-Str Ph 1 1079
AHB-3n Mick T Blackouts 7Str Ph 2 1079
LW-Must LiveWire Dave Mustaine,n 1080
SH-13 Dimebucker 1160
AHB-1n Blackouts, Neck 1283
AHB-1n Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 1, Nk 1283
AHB-1n Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 2, Nk 1283
AHB-1n Blackouts, 8strg, Neck 1283
LW-Must LiveWire Dave Mustaine,b 1368
AHB-3b MickT Blackouts HB Bridge Bk 1419
AHB-3b Mick T Blackouts 7-Str Ph 1 1419
AHB-3b Mick T Blackouts 7Str Ph 2 1419
AHB-1b Blackouts, Bridge 1598
AHB-1b Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 1, Br 1598
AHB-1b Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 2, Br 1598
AHB-1b Blackouts, 8strg, Bridge 1598
AHB-11n Gus G Fire Backout Coil Pack Nk 1725
AHB-11b Gus G Fire Backout Coil Pack Brg 1784
AHB-10n Blackouts Coil Pack Nk 1829
AHB-10b Blackouts Coil Pack Brg 1870
AHB-2b Blackouts Metal HB 3648

 

[thanaton]

Re: Seth Lover Neck vs Pearly Gates Neck.

Well... not really.

The spin-a-split reduces the output of one of the coils.

Winding both coils with different amount of turns, would not only affect the output, but both the individual and summed resonance peak as well.

HTH,

A spin a split also effects the summed resonant peak, since the inductance and capacitance no longer sums perfectly when one of the coils is shunted. In both cases the resonant peak increases, and one of the coils contributes less to the audible output.

That's simply not the case. The spacer is *not* located at a pivot point.

It doesn't matter. For example, the reason they wax pot the entire pickup, and not just the coil, is because other parts of the pickup can vibrate as well. So the fact that a Seth Lover pickup is not wax potted at all means that those components have a chance to come into play, in addition to the unpotted coil.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Seth Lover Neck vs Pearly Gates Neck.

The Seth pickups are Seymour Duncan's lowest output regular production full-sized humbuckers; there isn't a pickup in that category that is not hotter.

Well, not exactly, but close enough for all practical purposes. The WLH neck and StagMag are regular production humbuckers with slightly lower output (measured in mV). Admittedly the StagMag may not be considered "in that category" but the WLH certainly is.



SM-2n Custom Mini-Humbkr 216
PA-STK1n Parallel Axis Stack 291
SM-2b Custom Mini-Humbkr 327
SM-3n Seymourized Mini-Humbkr 330
SM-3b Seymourized Mini-Humbkr 354
SH-18n Whole Lotta HB Neck 382
SH-3 Stag Mag 389
SH-55n Seth Lover Model Nkl 399
SH-55b Seth Lover Model Nkl 399
SH-18b Whole Lotta HB bridge 440
APH-1n Alnc II Pro Humbuckr 452
APH-2n Slash Alnc II Pro HB 475
SH-8SGn Synyster Gates,&Chr,Neck 491
SH-8n Invader 491
7Str Invader Nk, Pmt 491
8Str Invader Nk, Pmt 491
6Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
7Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
8Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
7Str Sentient Neck, Pmt 499
8Str Sentient Neck, Pmt 499
TB-APH1B Alnc II Trembucker 499
APH-1b Alnc II Pro Humbuckr 499
SH-12 Screamin' Demon 500
TB-12 Screamin' Demon Trembkr 500
SH-2n Jazz Model 501
SH-2n Jazz Model 7-Strg 501
SH-PG1n Pearly Gates 513
PA-TB1n Original Parallel Axis 515
APH-2b Slash Alnc II Pro HB 524
LW-CH2n,LiveWire II,Classic,HB 534
SH-PG1b Pearly Gates 543
TB-PG1b Pearly Gates Trembkr 543
6Str Pegasus Brg. 555
7Str Pegasus Brg, Amt, Soapbar 555
8Str Pegasus Brg, Amt, Soapbar 555
7Str Pegasus Brg, Pmt 555
8Str Pegasus Brg, Pmt 555
Pegasus Trembucker, Bridge 555
SH-2b Jazz Model 571
SH-1n '59 Model 7-Strg 572
SH-11 Custom Custom 574
TB-11 Custom Custom Trembkr 574
Jason Becker - bridge Black 582
Jason Becker - TB bridge Black 582
TB-59 '59 Trembucker 593
SH-1b '59 Model 7-Strg 593
SH-16 59/Custom Hybrid, 625
TB-16 59/Custom Hybrid, 625
SH-14 Custom 5 Black 646
TB-14 Custom 5 Trembkr Black 646
SH-14 Custom 5 7-Str 646
TB-15 Alternative 8 Trembkr Black 651
6Str Nazgûl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
7Str Nazgûl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
8Str Nazgûl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
7Str Nazgûl Brg, Pmt 666
8Str Nazgûl Brg, Pmt 666
Nazgul Trembucker, Bridge 666
PA-TB3b Blues Saraceno Model 694
SH-10n Full Shred 709
SH-10n Full Shred Neck 7-Str 709
SH-10b Full Shred 724
TB-10 Full Shred Trembucker 724
7Str Distortion Nk,Amt, Soapbar 732
8Str Distortion Nk,Amt, Soapbar 732
SH-6n Duncan Distortion 732
7Str Distortion Nk,Pmt 732
8Str Distortion Nk,Pmt 732
SH-4 JB Model 737
TB-4 JB Trembucker 737
SH-4 JB Model 7-Strg 737
PA-TB2b Distortion Parallel Axis 741
Black Winter, HB Neck 744
7Str Black Winter, HB Neck 744
8Str Black Winter, HB Neck 744
PA-TB1b Original Parallel Axis 749
SH-15 Alternative 8 Black 761
Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
7Str Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
8Str Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
Black Winter, TB Bridge 763
SH-5 Duncan Custom 784
TB-5 Duncan Custom Trembkr 784
SH-5 Duncan Custom 7-Strg 784
7Str Distortion Brg, Amt, Soapbar 792
8Str Distortion Brg, Amt, Soapbar 792
SH-6b Duncan Distortion 792
7Str Distortion Brg Pmt 792
8Str Distortion Brg Pmt 792
TB-6 Duncan Distortion Trmbkr 792
SH-8SGb Synyster Gates,&Chr,Brdg 813
7Str Invader Brg, Amt, Soapbar 813
8Str Invader Brg, Amt, Soapbar 813
SH-8b Invader 813
7Str Invader Brg, Pmt 813
8Str Invader Brg, Pmt 813
TB-8SGb Synyster Gates,&Chr,Brdg 813
LW-CH2b,LiveWire II,Classic,HB 936
SH-10b Full Shred Brg 7-Str 958
AHB-3n MickT Blackouts HB Neck Bk 1079
AHB-3n Mick T Blackouts 7-Str Ph 1 1079
AHB-3n Mick T Blackouts 7Str Ph 2 1079
LW-Must LiveWire Dave Mustaine,n 1080
SH-13 Dimebucker 1160
AHB-1n Blackouts, Neck 1283
AHB-1n Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 1, Nk 1283
AHB-1n Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 2, Nk 1283
AHB-1n Blackouts, 8strg, Neck 1283
LW-Must LiveWire Dave Mustaine,b 1368
AHB-3b MickT Blackouts HB Bridge Bk 1419
AHB-3b Mick T Blackouts 7-Str Ph 1 1419
AHB-3b Mick T Blackouts 7Str Ph 2 1419
AHB-1b Blackouts, Bridge 1598
AHB-1b Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 1, Br 1598
AHB-1b Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 2, Br 1598
AHB-1b Blackouts, 8strg, Bridge 1598
AHB-11n Gus G Fire Backout Coil Pack Nk 1725
AHB-11b Gus G Fire Backout Coil Pack Brg 1784
AHB-10n Blackouts Coil Pack Nk 1829
AHB-10b Blackouts Coil Pack Brg 1870
AHB-2b Blackouts Metal HB 3648

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Seth Lover Neck vs Pearly Gates Neck.

Yeah, I forgot about the WLH neck, and realized it as soon as I re-consulted that list. Stag Mag doesn't fit the category, in the way I was envisioning it. By "full-sized," I was thinking "standard," as in a Gibson-based humbucker.

 

[joesatch]

Re: Seth Lover Neck vs Pearly Gates Neck.

i use the Seth Neck, love it. Gonna put Seth neck and Bridge in my Goldtop when i get a chance. Here's my test

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Seth Lover Neck vs Pearly Gates Neck.

It doesn't matter. For example, the reason they wax pot the entire pickup, and not just the coil, is because other parts of the pickup can vibrate as well. So the fact that a Seth Lover pickup is not wax potted at all means that those components have a chance to come into play, in addition to the unpotted coil.

Man, your assumptions are based on lacking knowledge and/or misunderstanding of the most basic laws of physics, like mass, applied vectorial forces behaviour and sympathetic vibration on a pivotal suspended system, as a p'up installed on a p'up ring actually is.

So no, using a wood and/or a plastic spacer as alternative means of "dampen vibration" of a single element, have nothing to do with using rubber tubing or springs to "dampen vibration", in the context you were previously wondering. And so you know, the mass of the whole p'up is far greater than the coil alone, so even if it's a bit "loose", it's physically impossible for it to vibrate on a different, unrelated frequency that's not a harmonic node of the fundamental.

Also, if you add a p'up cover and you tightly install it, you can even loosen the screws tightening the coils to the baseplate; it won't matter either.

I'd say, first assemble and disassemble some p'ups, learn and understand how everything works together, THEN you might be able to say something of value for the collective knowledge.

HTH,

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Seth Lover Neck vs Pearly Gates Neck.

SNIP OF USELESS DATA

Doc, are you aware that that list is so full of inaccuracies that's pretty close to be worthless?

Well... now that I think of it, so is the SD site.

At least they're coherent! :naughty:

 

[thanaton]

Re: Seth Lover Neck vs Pearly Gates Neck.

Man, your assumptions are based on lacking knowledge and/or misunderstanding of the most basic laws of physics, like mass, applied vectorial forces behaviour and sympathetic vibration on a pivotal suspended system, as a p'up installed on a p'up ring actually is.

And it sounds like you're assuming that something has to have pivot points in order to resonate. The rubber tubing doesn't work like a shock absorber with a free moving piston, because the screw is holding the pickup and mount ring firmly together, but it would still serve to dampen vibration, much more so than a spring will.

And so you know, the mass of the whole p'up is far greater than the coil alone, so even if it's a bit "loose", it's physically impossible for it to vibrate on a different, unrelated frequency that's not a harmonic node of the fundamental.

Also, if you add a p'up cover and you tightly install it, you can even loosen the screws tightening the coils to the baseplate; it won't matter either.

Then why wax pot the entire pickup? Why not just wax pot the bobbins after the leads have been soldered on and spare the mess?

So if some of the tonal qualities of a Seth Lover, Antiquity, or an original PAF are attributed to the lack of wax potting, why say that the cause of that difference must reside in the unwaxed coil, and not the unwaxed everything else?

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Seth Lover Neck vs Pearly Gates Neck.

And it sounds like you're assuming that something has to have pivot points in order to resonate. The rubber tubing doesn't work like a shock absorber with a free moving piston, because the screw is holding the pickup and mount ring firmly together, but it would still serve to dampen vibration, much more so than a spring will.

You just don't know where to stop, do you? Dunning-Kruger much?

Then why wax pot the entire pickup? Why not just wax pot the bobbins after the leads have been soldered on and spare the mess?

Look it up on youtube. I'm positive once you see for the first time ever how it's done, you'll be able to figure out the answer by yourself. See, I'm even giving you the benefit of the doubt!

So if some of the tonal qualities of a Seth Lover, Antiquity, or an original PAF are attributed to the lack of wax potting, why say that the cause of that difference must reside in the unwaxed coil, and not the unwaxed everything else?

Do you know how reliable are the source(s) of that info? If you believe it to be true, then why is it? Is any actual science supporting the statement?

Now YOU tell ME! Well...?

 

[Aceman]

Re: Seth Lover Neck vs Pearly Gates Neck.

And now, back to our regularly scheduled OP as I pull a bunch of rabbit's out of their holes.

Seth = Mild, PG = Wild, as PAF styles go.

For Jazzin' the Seth is an obvious call. Not that you couldn't with the PG, just that you would rather with the Seth.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Seth Lover Neck vs Pearly Gates Neck.

Seth = Mild, PG = Wild, as PAF styles go.

We have different ears. I hear Seth's as open, 3D, and having a little more high-end bite, great for classic rock, blues, and jazz. I hear PGN's as warm, smooth high-end, and great for jazz. I know, I know, I'm wrong, you're right.

But then there's this added wrinkle from Zenmindbeginner:
"The Seth Lover is going to sound consistent in any guitar or any rig... the Pearly Gates set is going to match better with certain rigs and guitars."

Maybe that's where our different ears come from?

 

[blueman335]

Re: Seth Lover Neck vs Pearly Gates Neck.

There is a difference between the neck models

The Pearly Gates has an upper midrange sort of peak to it that is quite strong.
The Seth Lover seems to have a more relaxed peak that's tuned a little higher... smoother but with a bit extended bandwidth.

The unpotted nature of the Seth Lover lends the pickup to have a bit more hi-fi sound to it with more harmonic content than the PGn.

I've always found the PGn to be a smaller sounding pickup than the Seth Lover... smaller sounding but sharper and angrier.

The Seth Lover neck is more laid back and less intense/less forward leaning compared to the more aggressive & edgy Pearly Gates neck.
The Pearly Gates neck has more growl and sizzle compared to the Seth Lover which has more bark and an extended bandwidth.
The attack of the PGn is pitched in the exact middle of the midrange (phone frequencies) with a sharp sort of tail to it's decay and release.
The attack of the Seth Lover neck is pitched lower in the low midrange (warmth and girth) and the tail isn't quite as sharp as the PGn.

The Seth Lover is going to sound consistent in any guitar or any rig... the Pearly Gates set is going to match better with certain rigs and guitars.

They both do all sorts of musical styles but the Seth Lover is always going to have a thicker and more hi fi sound to it.
The Pearly Gates is a more versatile pickup that can obtain a variety of tones in a variety of situations... more aggressive and leaner sounding with a strong upper midrange detail.

Excellent videos, and great playing!

 

[thanaton]

Re: Seth Lover Neck vs Pearly Gates Neck.

Look it up on youtube. I'm positive once you see for the first time ever how it's done, you'll be able to figure out the answer by yourself. See, I'm even giving you the benefit of the doubt!

Alright, here's your youtube. Evan Skopp explaining why Seymour Duncan wax pots entire pickups...
https://youtu.be/xbNOFBauXAg?t=3m3s

Do you know how reliable are the source(s) of that info? If you believe it to be true, then why is it? Is any actual science supporting the statement?

Now YOU tell ME! Well...?

You want reliable sources stating that wax potting effects tone?

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support-pickups-101/digging-deeper

On the other hand, many great vintage pickups are not potted. ...

And that’s not necessarily a bad thing. A slightly microphonic non-potted pickup can have an attractive “honk,” a sound many players love.

http://www.lollarguitars.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=guitar-pickups-faq#What is pickup potting? Are Lollar pickups potted?

However, if a pickup is potted too much, the pickup can often sound lifeless and dull, lacking character and “vibe”.

http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Onlin...r_beeswax_Potting_pickups_with_paraffin_.html

he [Lindy Fralin] says beeswax darkens the tone of his pickups, affecting the sound in a way he doesn’t like. With paraffin, he hears a clearer tone with better highs than what he heard when using a mixture of the two. That’s interesting new information. Thanks, Lindy!

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Seth Lover Neck vs Pearly Gates Neck.

Great! You've found people telling you things. Now, being the crusader for the truth that you are, how do you know what they're saying is true?

Now explain me, with actual physical science principles, why those statements are true and are not just marketing gimmicks?

Can you do that for me?

 

[thanaton]

Re: Seth Lover Neck vs Pearly Gates Neck.

Great! You've found people

You asked for reliable sources, I cited Evan Skopp, Jason Lollar, Lindy Fralin and whoever write "Pickups 101" for seymourduncan.com. Not reliable enough for you?

telling you things.

Now, being the crusader for the truth that you are, how do you know what they're saying is true?

Now explain me, with actual physical science principles, why those statements are true and are not just marketing gimmicks?

Can you do that for me?

I said "I wonder if the wood spacer in fact changes a microphonic aspect of the pickup", and that's true, I do "wonder", I'm not claiming to know.

All objects have a natural frequency, or set of frequencies, at which they resonate. If you apply the mass–spring–damper model to something like the spacer, the stiffness of the wood represents both the spring and the mass, while the wax, or lack thereof, and inherent damping in the plastic or wood represents the damper. The frequency the spacer resonates at is effected by the degree of damping, which means plastic will resonate differently than wood, and both will resonate differently depending on whether or not they are damped by a coat of wax. So there is no question they will behave differently, there is a question (as always) whether or not the difference can be heard. I'm not saying it can be, but I'm not saying it can't be, either. That's the question.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Seth Lover Neck vs Pearly Gates Neck.

The little detail you overlooked is that the spacer, wood or plastic, is held down by pressure, one side by the bobbin, the other by the baseplate, by a set of screws. So, it just can't "resonate on its own frequence"; it's impeded to vibrate at all.

Gibson used maple spacers with their p'ups because it was discarting material, it was cheap to make and never run out of it.

Potting is used to prevent user complaints about howling, something occurring when too much gain is used and/or one stands too close to the amp.

Potting changes both the behaviour and the tone-footprint of the p'up, by adding mass and changing the rigidity coficient and the specific weight of the whole p'up as a vibrating system pivoting on two points.

Other manufacturers, including Gibson at one time, chose to use epoxi encapsulation, being EMG the most prominent proposer of this "solution".

HTH,

 

[thanaton]

Re: Seth Lover Neck vs Pearly Gates Neck.

The little detail you overlooked is that the spacer, wood or plastic, is held down by pressure, one side by the bobbin, the other by the baseplate, by a set of screws. So, it just can't "resonate on its own frequence"; it's impeded to vibrate at all.

Looking at the spacer in isolation is only to demonstrate that it matters in general, if not as a resonator, than as something which serves to change the damping ratio other resonating parts. A car, for example, has resonances which are added and subtracted to to by many pieces that are firmly secured. In the video I posted, Evan mentioned that they wax pot the whole pickup to prevent the screws or magnets from resonating, or otherwise contributing to noise, and yet those things are wedged in there good, too.

Even if you suppose that it's more likely that the firmly embedded plastic spacer only serves to increase the dampening ratio of the pickup, then it seems very plausible to me that once you've chose not to wax pot a pickup, that lesser dampers such as a plastic spacer now matter a lot more since the extreme damping effect of the wax is gone. The stiffer wood spacer might allow the rest of the pickup to resonate more freely than it will with a less stiff plastic spacer, and therefore enhance or change the microphonic qualities of the pickup.

Potting changes both the behaviour and the tone-footprint of the p'up, by adding mass and changing the rigidity coficient and the specific weight of the whole p'up as a vibrating system pivoting on two points.

Tele bridge pickups are wax potted to prevent feedback, and traditionally have big feedback problems due to the metal bridge and the bottom plate, but those are mounted with three screws and do not pivot.