Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

[Christopher Caruana]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

Hell we may never know exactly what equipment Ed used on VH1 and so on. I doubt even Ed himself remembers anymore. I actually like the '78 for VH1 stuff (early Roth) and the CC for 1984 (later Roth) tones

 

[pittbull]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

I have tried the 78,59,PG,all good pickups but they dont have the output or the edge-aggressiveness for van halen 1,the custom custom would have the output though.When people say that the custom custom sounds like later van halen to me the 78,59,PG would be in that catagory not the custom custom. van halens later sound is way less aggressive,the custom custom is high output,to me van halen 1 is very aggressive and a low output pickup would not come close.

 

[Ed Hunter]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

I have tried the 78,59,PG,all good pickups but they dont have the output or the edge-aggressiveness for van halen 1,the custom custom would have the output though.When people say that the custom custom sounds like later van halen to me the 78,59,PG would be in that catagory not the custom custom. van halens later sound is way less aggressive,the custom custom is high output,to me van halen 1 is very aggressive and a low output pickup would not come close.

for a pup with more output and still get as close as possible to VH1 the JB with a aged alinco 5 is amazing. Also check out the EVH forum at .metroamps lots of great info there.
FWIW the MCP 2nd degree black belt is the best i heard for VH1's tone. They cost $180 though!

 

[ErikH]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

Like I said, most of that album was done with a stock Ibanez Destroyer. If you did your homework and knew this, you would know that the pickups in it were hotter than PAFs of the time. Check out the Super 70's that came stock in those Destroyers. With some EQing and fiddling around, you could get in the ballpark with a Custom Custom but that's about it.

I'm The One is definitely the Strat. To my recollection, the pickup in it is the one that was in the neck slot of an ES335, which could be A5 or A2 and just might be one of the those pickups that was wound slightly hotter (remember they didn't count the winds then, just wound until the bobbins were full).

Dropping the voltage through use of a Variac with the Super Lead can get that sound. It gets raspy like that. There's so much studio magic on that record too.

 

[Ed Hunter]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

Like I said, most of that album was done with a stock Ibanez Destroyer. If you did your homework and knew this, you would know that the pickups in it were hotter than PAFs of the time. Check out the Super 70's that came stock in those Destroyers. With some EQing and fiddling around, you could get in the ballpark with a Custom Custom but that's about it.

I'm The One is definitely the Strat. To my recollection, the pickup in it is the one that was in the neck slot of an ES335, which could be A5 or A2 and just might be one of the pickups that was wound slightly hotter.

Dropping the voltage through use of a Variac with the Super Lead can get that sound. It gets raspy like that. There's so much studio magic on that record too.

Erik i agree and want to add that there is a guy named VHoholic that gets the first album tone using a stock duncan 59b. Food for thought

 

[ErikH]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

Erik i agree and want to add that there is a guy named VHoholic that gets the first album tone using a stock duncan 59b. Food for thought

I believe it cause I've heard it. I actually saw a VH tribute act this past summer and the guy was using a '59 as well. It was sickenly bright though. He could've laid off the treble a little bit, but he had the raspiness of it down. That only covers the songs where the Strat was utilized. The others the 59 will work, but a little hotter pickup works better, IMO.

 

[IanBallard]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

Compare the "I'm The One" track to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkKMyp4cmUs&feature=related

Frankly you can belabor the differences, but the similarities are much greater. Same guitar, same amp, same guy.

And yes, there were pre and post Plexi EQ's as well as compressors. I have to say, the tracks I've heard with AlNiCo V mags, sound more dead on to me.

 

[Christopher Caruana]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

Compare the "I'm The One" track to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkKMyp4cmUs&feature=related

Frankly you can belabor the differences, but the similarities are much greater. Same guitar, same amp, same guy.

And yes, there were pre and post Plexi EQ's as well as compressors. I have to say, the tracks I've heard with AlNiCo V mags, sound more dead on to me.

that sounds more like an A5 mag than the "I'm the one" track does

 

[Ed Hunter]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

I have to say, the tracks I've heard with AlNiCo V mags, sound more dead on to me.

well if it is true about a stock 61 P.A.F from ed's ES-335 being the pup used they meaning gibson started using small bar alnico 5 in those P.A.F's...

 

[pittbull]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

We dont know for a fact that the pickups in the destroyer were stock ibanez,thats another rumour that was started on the net,the pickups that Ed talked about were dimarzio,gibson paf and seymour duncan,As for vhololic he is using a 5150 combo amp with the duncan 59 pickup,the 5150 combo is a high gain amp nothing like a stock plexi.Also like i said before Ed is a BSer when it comes to his equipment,in the club days Ed would turn his back to the crowd when he played eruption so people would copy his playing style.

 

[IanBallard]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

The bridge is also key. Old Fender trems are fatter-sounding and most Floyds are relatively thin comparitively. It changes the way the note rings and decays. So really, if you're talking about the Strat, you have the vintage trem sound and the Floyd sound. You also have "Hot For Teacher" played mostly with a Flying V. Were some tunes a Les Paul? Cathedral was a Strat, etc, etc.

Amp, fingers, studio. His live tone was sadly undocumented until the US Festival and there's no remastered, hi-res releases of it, just cruddy Betamax recordings from HBO. We really have little in the way of live recordings for Ed's early sound, so we get crappy quality and the records. I think his live tone reveals the guitar sound... a "bamp" and spanky quality, where the studio tracks seemed more saturated and fuzzy.

 

[IanBallard]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C19gisGTmG0&feature=related

Notice that "spank" in his guitar, the real Frankie. His fingers and technique are creating the "distortion"... he's picking HARD! Amazingly clean sounding compared to the studio version.

 

[pittbull]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

somebody give me a doctor is from van halen II,the van halen 1 sound is what im talking about,if you notice the majority of the clips on the net are van halen II and the rest of the van halen catalog which in my opinion are much easier to achieve,van halen 1 clips that sound convincing are pretty rare and are hard to achieve,thats why the van halen 1 sound is hard to achieve.

 

[Ed Hunter]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

somebody give me a doctor is from van halen II,the van halen 1 sound is what im talking about,if you notice the majority of the clips on the net are van halen II and the rest of the van halen catalog which in my opinion are much easier to achieve,van halen 1 clips that sound convincing are pretty rare and are hard to achieve,thats why the van halen 1 sound is hard to achieve.

some swear ed used a 13k ceramic mighty mite pup in franky on the 1st record. Could be cause i have a 13k ceramic that is from a olp mm-1 evh copy and it has good sizzle and drive but still sounds P.A.Fish. Just like his bridge dimarzio custom wound pup in the ebmm sig. Did u consider tryin ebay for a evh dimarzio?

 

[pittbull]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

I tried that pickup and i didnt like it,the pickup thats in the ernie ball musicman evh guitar was a copy of the duncan jb,i talked to steve blutcher(Dimarzio) about that and he explained to me that when dimarzio got the contract to make that pickup they copied the pickup that was in the frankenstrat at that time(1990)which was a duncan jb,i remember in 79-80 Ed talked about taking a paf magnet and putting it a dimarzio super distortion pickup(magnet swapping),which is very close to what a custom custom would be spec wise.As for Eds destoyer i have seen older photos of that guitar with a cream colored mighty mite pickup which is basicly a copy of a dimarzio super distotion.Also when you listen to van halen 1 there is that compression and edge aggressiveness.

 

[marcello252]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C19gisGTmG0&feature=related

Notice that "spank" in his guitar, the real Frankie. His fingers and technique are creating the "distortion"... he's picking HARD! Amazingly clean sounding compared to the studio version.

wow, cleaner than I 've ever heard, very cool video.

Anyway I've seen here on the forum a lot of talks about getting a very particular sound with a pickup when actually there are TONS of variables to consider.
Today, for example, I used my pedals after a long time of amp only sound and my guitars sound completely different, I mean COMPLETELY different.
My alder body and maple neck tele sounds very VH1 with an inexpensive GFS classic II at the bridge, the same pickup in my ash strat rosewood fingerboard sound completely lifeless.

So, in my opinion, there is not any magic formula around, especially in the pickup territory. An A2 in my guitar could sound way way different then the same mag in your hands, the real trick is to find the best option with wood, amp, hands that every single person use, there are general rules but they are, actually, 'general'.
Try to buy, for example, the VH sound with a single pickup is just too much optimistic.

(a different issue is the fact that one would have to find 'his' sound and not the one of another... )

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

I'm not chasing Ed's tone, but I know this subject about as thoroughly as most. The only conclusion I've come up with is that VH1 sounds like a A5 PAF that's been potted.
If I were trying to recreate that tone, I'd probably put a roughcast A5 mag into a Burstbucker 2, then pot it. The most VH'ish pickup I've ever come up with is the C5/59 hybrid, which cleans up nicely, but has that extra bite from the Custom coil next to the bridge.

Here's what Wikipedia says.
Van Halen constructed his now legendary Frankenstrat guitar using a Charvel factory "2nd" body and neck (cost $50), a single vintage Gibson PAF humbucker pickup (sealed in paraffin wax to reduce microphonic feedback), a pre-CBS Fender tremolo bridge (later to be a Floyd Rose bridge) and a single volume control with a knob labeled "tone". Eddie has used a variety of pickups including Gibson PAF's, 1970s Mighty Mites, DiMarzios and Ibanez Super 70s. Eddie was using Mighty Mite pickups in 1977 club photos, just prior to the recording of the first Van Halen album. Mighty Mite pickups were OEM pickups made by Seymour Duncan [24] and were copies of DiMarzio Super Distortion pickups and can be identified by their lack of bobbin holes. Seymour Duncan started advertising pickup rewinding services In late 1977/early 1978 [25] and apparently rewound a Gibson PAF for Eddie around the early 1978 period

 

[Ed Hunter]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

I tried that pickup and i didnt like it,the pickup thats in the ernie ball musicman evh guitar was a copy of the duncan jb,i talked to steve blutcher(Dimarzio) about that and he explained to me that when dimarzio got the contract to make that pickup they copied the pickup that was in the frankenstrat at that time(1990)which was a duncan jb.

yes steve told you the truth it was a jb BUT he may have forgot to mention it was a broken JB! LOL one coil was shorted but still bucked the hum. Leave it to ed to have a pup that had a shorted bridge coil that still canceld hum! Lmao...

 

[cthroatgtr]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

First VH album is very aggressive sounding and history seems to identify that Eddie moved away from that tone. Still for very early VH you are better off with a qualify Fender/Callaham bridge and not a Floyd. Diver Down/Fair Warning sounds more like CC and without having any knowledge of actual fact I would bet the CC was an attempt to recover the lost bottom end from the Floyd. 1984 sounds like VH II but not as aggressive then Ed discovered the Harmonizer and his sound was flushed away for good.

Really you can nail vintage VH with a clear not overly distored pickup some nice amp gain and the right reverb. I remember many years ago doing some tracking with an Ibanez (non-locking trem) with stock pickups and the engineer had his VH reverb patch. He would put that on and we would get a good laugh then realize we couldn't keep that tone. It was through a Marshall blazing and a boss SD-1 but it was all things combined.

To me I have never heard A-2 on old VH and I really think that came later. As Ed went for the "brown" sound he went away from the VH1 tone that so many of us recall with great affection.

 

[Stef]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

The alnico 8 magnet thing is pure assumption that some moron put on the net and people started to believe, total BS...........

stock super 70 was A8 and that moron must have been ibanez