seymour duncan distortion sh6 output in mV ...?
- Thread starter gooswyn
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Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: seymour duncan distortion sh6 output in mV ...?
The trouble with getting a meaningful mv measurement is that its dependent on so many factors. String thickness and construction, volume and tone "pot" values, amplifier input impedance, and how hard you "strum". And then, of course, you have an initial value, that diminishes with time. Thats one of the reasons Duncan uses DC resistance. Its a simple, static measurement, that anyone can reproduce with an inexpensive meter, that isn't frequency dependent. (Or dependent on anything else, for that matter.) Thats also, part of the reason that rating a pup with millivolts or henries isn't very meaningful.
Even if you want to test this yourself, the results won't be meaningful unless you know the exact conditions that whatever pup you're comparing to were measured by. Thats why it would be so much nicer if all the manufacturers would just published the DC resistance of their pickups.
If you'ld still be interested, however, I do happen to have a Distortion, that isn't mounted into anything right now. I could take it to work and measure its output. (If you don't mind waiting til Monday.) You'ld at least get a "ballpark" figure.
Let me know. I'd be happy to do it.
Artie
The trouble with getting a meaningful mv measurement is that its dependent on so many factors. String thickness and construction, volume and tone "pot" values, amplifier input impedance, and how hard you "strum". And then, of course, you have an initial value, that diminishes with time. Thats one of the reasons Duncan uses DC resistance. Its a simple, static measurement, that anyone can reproduce with an inexpensive meter, that isn't frequency dependent. (Or dependent on anything else, for that matter.) Thats also, part of the reason that rating a pup with millivolts or henries isn't very meaningful.
Even if you want to test this yourself, the results won't be meaningful unless you know the exact conditions that whatever pup you're comparing to were measured by. Thats why it would be so much nicer if all the manufacturers would just published the DC resistance of their pickups.
If you'ld still be interested, however, I do happen to have a Distortion, that isn't mounted into anything right now. I could take it to work and measure its output. (If you don't mind waiting til Monday.) You'ld at least get a "ballpark" figure.
Let me know. I'd be happy to do it.
Artie
RG 2570
New member
Re: seymour duncan distortion sh6 output in mV ...?
well the dimarzio SD is at 425mv so i am guessing the duncan is at that range?
the invader would be close to 500mv
gooswyn said:hi all
im newbie here, and just want to know :
is anybody here know duncan distortion SH6 output in mV ? and also duncan invader SH8 in mV?
thanks
well the dimarzio SD is at 425mv so i am guessing the duncan is at that range?
the invader would be close to 500mv
Benjy_26
25's Nemesis
Re: seymour duncan distortion sh6 output in mV ...?
I've heard both the Super D and the Duncan D and the Duncan seems to be hotter and more aggressive than the Dimarzio. The Super Distortion seems about as hot as the Custom, just a bit fatter though.
I had the Super Distortion in my Yamaha (hey, I got it free ) and my friend had a DD in his Jackson (which he sold).
I've heard both the Super D and the Duncan D and the Duncan seems to be hotter and more aggressive than the Dimarzio. The Super Distortion seems about as hot as the Custom, just a bit fatter though.
I had the Super Distortion in my Yamaha (hey, I got it free
) and my friend had a DD in his Jackson (which he sold).Re: seymour duncan distortion sh6 output in mV ...?
DC Resistance is worthless IMO. Look at the tone chart and you'll see it doesn't really correspond that well to output of the pickup.
I understand that mV has it's flaw in that the same setup has to be used but it is MUCH MUCH more indicative of how hot the pickup really is. As much as I think Dimarzio is a kooky company in some ways I have to give them props for this....there is NO GUESSING how hot they are.
I wish Duncan would do this just amongst their own line of pickups you could at least judge the pickups relative to each other since most people refuse to try other brands anyway.
Actually, Duncan should just post the numbers for the bars(if they're even correct). They had to derive the values for the bars from somewhere and by the charts it doesn't look like they got it from DC Resistance.
ArtieToo said:The trouble with getting a meaningful mv measurement is that its dependent on so many factors. String thickness and construction, volume and tone "pot" values, amplifier input impedance, and how hard you "strum". And then, of course, you have an initial value, that diminishes with time. Thats one of the reasons Duncan uses DC resistance. Its a simple, static measurement, that anyone can reproduce with an inexpensive meter, that isn't frequency dependent. (Or dependent on anything else, for that matter.) Thats also, part of the reason that rating a pup with millivolts or henries isn't very meaningful.
Even if you want to test this yourself, the results won't be meaningful unless you know the exact conditions that whatever pup you're comparing to were measured by. Thats why it would be so much nicer if all the manufacturers would just published the DC resistance of their pickups.
If you'ld still be interested, however, I do happen to have a Distortion, that isn't mounted into anything right now. I could take it to work and measure its output. (If you don't mind waiting til Monday.) You'ld at least get a "ballpark" figure.
Let me know. I'd be happy to do it.
Artie
DC Resistance is worthless IMO. Look at the tone chart and you'll see it doesn't really correspond that well to output of the pickup.
I understand that mV has it's flaw in that the same setup has to be used but it is MUCH MUCH more indicative of how hot the pickup really is. As much as I think Dimarzio is a kooky company in some ways I have to give them props for this....there is NO GUESSING how hot they are.
I wish Duncan would do this just amongst their own line of pickups you could at least judge the pickups relative to each other since most people refuse to try other brands anyway.
Actually, Duncan should just post the numbers for the bars(if they're even correct). They had to derive the values for the bars from somewhere and by the charts it doesn't look like they got it from DC Resistance.
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Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: seymour duncan distortion sh6 output in mV ...?
But I think that what's being overlooked here is that DC resistance is not being given as a measurement of output. Its simply an additional bit of information about the pickup. If you take it, along with the magnet type, (also listed), you do, in fact, have a pretty good idea of the output level. However, none of that is necessary. You have to consider the website in its totality. The tone chart gives you DC resistance, magnet type, resonant peak, a bar graph for relative output level, a bar graph for relative frequency responce, and a brief description.
Its not like there's a long list of Duncan pups, with just their DC resistance. Then, on top of that, is the more colorful descriptions on the "catalog page", as I like to call it, and the icing on the cake, is this forum. I've never seen a Seth Lover or Antiquity, much less heard one, but I think I have a pretty good idea of how they compare to each other - and how they sound.
DC resistance is just an additional piece of info, that allows me to roughly identify an old pickup in a box, using a cheap meter. That's what makes it valuable.
ranalli said:
But I think that what's being overlooked here is that DC resistance is not being given as a measurement of output. Its simply an additional bit of information about the pickup. If you take it, along with the magnet type, (also listed), you do, in fact, have a pretty good idea of the output level. However, none of that is necessary. You have to consider the website in its totality. The tone chart gives you DC resistance, magnet type, resonant peak, a bar graph for relative output level, a bar graph for relative frequency responce, and a brief description.
Its not like there's a long list of Duncan pups, with just their DC resistance. Then, on top of that, is the more colorful descriptions on the "catalog page", as I like to call it, and the icing on the cake, is this forum. I've never seen a Seth Lover or Antiquity, much less heard one, but I think I have a pretty good idea of how they compare to each other - and how they sound.
DC resistance is just an additional piece of info, that allows me to roughly identify an old pickup in a box, using a cheap meter. That's what makes it valuable.
Metalblaze
New member
Re: seymour duncan distortion sh6 output in mV ...?
Is really the Custom so hot? :saeek: I thought it was close to JB in output and I've heard that JB is around 350mV.
Benjy_26 said:I've heard both the Super D and the Duncan D and the Duncan seems to be hotter and more aggressive than the Dimarzio. The Super Distortion seems about as hot as the Custom, just a bit fatter though.
I had the Super Distortion in my Yamaha (hey, I got it free
Is really the Custom so hot? :saeek: I thought it was close to JB in output and I've heard that JB is around 350mV.
Davey
Goliath of Tone
Re: seymour duncan distortion sh6 output in mV ...?
thats pretty much because of the ceramic magnet blaze. it's a bit 'rougher' if i can express myself that way.
mV output is an estimate, as it has many more factors than DC resistance plus the magnet. if you beat the guitar like a $2 ho or strumm lightly makes a BIG diference. where you check the DC resistance and see it's got a big ass ceramic magnet and you can think, this **** is HOT!
one cannot strum/play exactly the same so the output in mV is meh. try it yourself if you dont believe me. play lightly and then increase the atack on the strings, then tell me which one drives the amp harder
thats pretty much because of the ceramic magnet blaze. it's a bit 'rougher' if i can express myself that way.
mV output is an estimate, as it has many more factors than DC resistance plus the magnet. if you beat the guitar like a $2 ho or strumm lightly makes a BIG diference. where you check the DC resistance and see it's got a big ass ceramic magnet and you can think, this **** is HOT!
one cannot strum/play exactly the same so the output in mV is meh. try it yourself if you dont believe me. play lightly and then increase the atack on the strings, then tell me which one drives the amp harder
Metalblaze
New member
Re: seymour duncan distortion sh6 output in mV ...?
That's true.
I just didn't know that the type of the magnet and the eq have their part on that (the output). I thought they only define the tone. :scratchch So, I thought that the greater DC Res was ALWAYS more output, but it seems that it isn't always. Benjy and Davey thanks for the help.
Davey said:
That's true.
I just didn't know that the type of the magnet and the eq have their part on that (the output). I thought they only define the tone. :scratchch So, I thought that the greater DC Res was ALWAYS more output, but it seems that it isn't always. Benjy and Davey thanks for the help.
Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: seymour duncan distortion sh6 output in mV ...?
Blaze; For the sake of illustration, lets take this a bit farther. Imagine wrapping just one coil around the bobbin. Very low DC resistance, very low output. Thats easy to visualize.
Now lets take it to the other extreme. You wrap so much wire around the bobbin that the coil actually extends beyond the magnetic field. Now we have very high DC resistance. But while all of the wire contributes to the resistance, the wire thats outside of the magnetic field won't contribute any output voltage. Again, we have low output.
So, as we can see from those examples, there's a "happy middle ground" when it comes to the relationship between DC resistance, number of turns, wire gauge, magnet strength, etc.
Matching all those factors together is the "trick" . . . or "art" of pup making.
Artie
Metalblaze said:
Blaze; For the sake of illustration, lets take this a bit farther. Imagine wrapping just one coil around the bobbin. Very low DC resistance, very low output. Thats easy to visualize.
Now lets take it to the other extreme. You wrap so much wire around the bobbin that the coil actually extends beyond the magnetic field. Now we have very high DC resistance. But while all of the wire contributes to the resistance, the wire thats outside of the magnetic field won't contribute any output voltage. Again, we have low output.
So, as we can see from those examples, there's a "happy middle ground" when it comes to the relationship between DC resistance, number of turns, wire gauge, magnet strength, etc.
Matching all those factors together is the "trick" . . . or "art" of pup making.
Artie
Re: seymour duncan distortion sh6 output in mV ...?
I understand what you're saying but the values used in the output bar graph had to be obtained from somewhere....how are they obtained??
Most guitar players don't want to have to guess how magnets and DC resistance play together. Now I do because I find it interesting but most guitar players could care less.
mV is THE way to give a very clear answer to the output question IMO. I don't want to have to guess how an A2 is going to effect the output if the DC resistance is the same.
And yes, mV will change with different strumming styles, guitars, etc. However, that does not one bit diminish it's value when I'm choosing pickups for MY guitar where everything IS the same for me. I can objectively compare output values without having to delve into figuring out how this one pickup with an A2 is going to be different in output from another pickup with an A5 when they both have the same DC resistance.
ArtieToo said:But I think that what's being overlooked here is that DC resistance is not being given as a measurement of output. Its simply an additional bit of information about the pickup. If you take it, along with the magnet type, (also listed), you do, in fact, have a pretty good idea of the output level. However, none of that is necessary. You have to consider the website in its totality. The tone chart gives you DC resistance, magnet type, resonant peak, a bar graph for relative output level, a bar graph for relative frequency responce, and a brief description.
Its not like there's a long list of Duncan pups, with just their DC resistance. Then, on top of that, is the more colorful descriptions on the "catalog page", as I like to call it, and the icing on the cake, is this forum. I've never seen a Seth Lover or Antiquity, much less heard one, but I think I have a pretty good idea of how they compare to each other - and how they sound.
DC resistance is just an additional piece of info, that allows me to roughly identify an old pickup in a box, using a cheap meter. That's what makes it valuable.
I understand what you're saying but the values used in the output bar graph had to be obtained from somewhere....how are they obtained??
Most guitar players don't want to have to guess how magnets and DC resistance play together. Now I do because I find it interesting but most guitar players could care less.
mV is THE way to give a very clear answer to the output question IMO. I don't want to have to guess how an A2 is going to effect the output if the DC resistance is the same.
And yes, mV will change with different strumming styles, guitars, etc. However, that does not one bit diminish it's value when I'm choosing pickups for MY guitar where everything IS the same for me. I can objectively compare output values without having to delve into figuring out how this one pickup with an A2 is going to be different in output from another pickup with an A5 when they both have the same DC resistance.
Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: seymour duncan distortion sh6 output in mV ...?
Thats a good question.
And thats a good point. I agree completely. The "trick" will be to get all the manufacturers to adopt a standardized way of performing that measurement. This subject has come up before, and out of curiosity, I drew up a little design for a pickup-calibrator at work. (I work in a Navy calibration laboratory, so it tends to be frontmost on my mind.)
I wonder if I could prototype that thing, and sell it to the pup makers.
btw - I hope I didn't sound too confrontational in my first couple of posts. I think I have a little gremlin up my butt from the BL website/forum that tends to show its a$$ whenever this subject comes up.
I'll get to work on that pup calibrator.
ranalli said:
Thats a good question.
ranalli said:
And thats a good point. I agree completely. The "trick" will be to get all the manufacturers to adopt a standardized way of performing that measurement. This subject has come up before, and out of curiosity, I drew up a little design for a pickup-calibrator at work. (I work in a Navy calibration laboratory, so it tends to be frontmost on my mind.)
I wonder if I could prototype that thing, and sell it to the pup makers.
btw - I hope I didn't sound too confrontational in my first couple of posts. I think I have a little gremlin up my butt from the BL website/forum that tends to show its a$$ whenever this subject comes up.
I'll get to work on that pup calibrator.
Davey
Goliath of Tone
Re: seymour duncan distortion sh6 output in mV ...?
well, mV output should be measured with no volume or tone pots. directly wired to the output. this way you take away the guitar factor. there's still the player factor though and that one's a bit harder to get by, but it would be a closer estimate if you try and pick the same.
blaze, if you ask me, the 'loudness' of the pup has a bit to do with how it's voiced. if it has a very scooped voice, it wont cut through the mix as good as a very middy voiced bucker. and something to that effect. i could be wrong though
how i think the bar graphs are obtained is through an EQ. pickup is in the geetar, they strum open strings and take the readout from the EQ
but i still dont agree with you on the rest
well, mV output should be measured with no volume or tone pots. directly wired to the output. this way you take away the guitar factor. there's still the player factor though and that one's a bit harder to get by, but it would be a closer estimate if you try and pick the same.
blaze, if you ask me, the 'loudness' of the pup has a bit to do with how it's voiced. if it has a very scooped voice, it wont cut through the mix as good as a very middy voiced bucker. and something to that effect. i could be wrong though
how i think the bar graphs are obtained is through an EQ. pickup is in the geetar, they strum open strings and take the readout from the EQ
but i still dont agree with you on the rest
