Seymour Duncan JB Van halen

[LLL]

Re: Seymour Duncan JB Van halen

I agree with pitbull 100%.

For the record, the Metroamp cronies (there's a handful of them) like to steal info from non-crony members, ban them and then turn around and claim they "just discovered something"... re-posting said info. They also don't like it when a non-crony gets close to the "tone".

(You know, the only way to getting the brown sound there is with a Metro amp... /rolleyes)

It used to be a mecca for EVH info and cool dudes about 10 years ago, but it has dwindled down to the same cronies (and their sock puppet accounts) complimenting themselves over and over. Hundreds of regulars have left the forum for greener pastures.

So yeah, if you like hanging out in a den of insecure jerks and thieves who will do anything to promote George's amps, be my guest.

 

[Aasinsilta]

Re: Seymour Duncan JB Van halen

For 1st album - the JB is not it; nor any other high output humbucker (Super Distortion for ex). Because they do not clean up.

You don't need a hot pickup to get that tone.

The following 3 clips have Ed's original 1st album tone panned to the left, and my guitar panned to the right; you can hear a direct comparison:

You Really Got Me (Ed on Left, Me on Right)

Runnin' With The Devil (Ed on Left, Me on Right)

Feel Your Love Tonight (Ed on Left, Me on Right)

And here's how I got that tone:

LLLGA&E EP02: Getting The *Real* Eddie Van Halen 1st Album Brown Sound

You essentially need:

- a variac'd Marshall plexi-style circuit amp
- a slightly overwound A5 PAF type humbucker
- an EP3 preamp using a real TIS58 running at ~22-24 volts.

You can add a little goosing with the MXR 6-band EQ if necessary.

The rest is studio magic... EQing, compression and a healthy dose of echo chamber/reverb.

On those panned tracks, you've got a bit more high end compared to EVH. It's more noticeable on the first two tracks, but still stuck out to me. I listened through a pair of Sennheiser studio headphones. Did you use a 250k or 500k volume pot?

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Seymour Duncan JB Van halen

To bring this back on topic after getting derailed by misinformation...

Keep in mind that Eddie had his pickup screwed directly to the guitar body. This would have made the pickup further from the strings than most of us are used to. Just a thought. I have copped some very close tones with a JB.

The pickup depth on Franky is about 11/16", which is a tad deeper than the vintage Strat depth of 5/8" and shallower than the usual current depth of 3/4", but this is Charvel Asuza body #28 we're talking about here. Now a long-leg humbucker has the following dimensions.

So, basically the top of the pickup bobbins would be at .3885" above the body.

Ed has always had his Floyds sitting on the body, if we're talking about Franky in its RWB form (B&W still had a Strat trem).

As such, this puts the strings at a minimum height above the body of 0.3937" if the front of the bridge were sitting perfectly flat against the body. What the diagram above doesn't show, though, are the saddle lockdown screws which stick threw the plate, which bumps up the possible height of the bridge. That's pretty close to the top of the pickup at 0.3885", only .0052". Now, Eddie of course tweaked things, as you can see in this picture where he bent out the pickup legs a bit, so he certainly did adjust the height in odd ways himself.

You can see the pickup height here in this picture.

Now, of course, this guitar and others went through dozens of pickups and configurations, but my point was that the pickup was actually quite close to the strings, not far away.

If you're interested, there's LOTS of pics of Franky here for your perusal.

http://www.vhlinks.com/vbforums/threads/51924-The-Franky-A-Pictorial-History

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Seymour Duncan JB Van halen

I agree with pitbull 100%.

For the record, the Metroamp cronies (there's a handful of them) like to steal info from non-crony members, ban them and then turn around and claim they "just discovered something"... re-posting said info. They also don't like it when a non-crony gets close to the "tone".

(You know, the only way to getting the brown sound there is with a Metro amp... /rolleyes)

It used to be a mecca for EVH info and cool dudes about 10 years ago, but it has dwindled down to the same cronies (and their sock puppet accounts) complimenting themselves over and over. Hundreds of regulars have left the forum for greener pastures.

So yeah, if you like hanging out in a den of insecure jerks and thieves who will do anything to promote George's amps, be my guest.

I wouldn't really say that's true since Dave Friedman is a moderator on the MetroAmp forums and the late Rockstah was a valued member there. Both of them were builders with their own products for sale. There's plenty of guys on there that do their own builds. Hell, there's threads about guys building from scratch, using CeriaTone kits, Weber kits, etc. They're ga-ga over the Bugera 1960 over there! I've had questions and they've always graciously answered them.

So, no, I don't like hanging out in a den of insecure jerks and thieves, but I do like hanging out there and (usually) like hanging out here.

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Seymour Duncan JB Van halen

As far as the JB in Van Halen, I totally hear it in House of Pain.

 

[tman]

Re: Seymour Duncan JB Van halen

Just wanted to say nothing about what Eddie used but I have a JB in my Les Paul and I love the sound I have the bass side of the pickup turned up closer to strings and the treble side down and some pole piece adjustments and I love its sound my fav pickup ever. I get aswesome tone in my Moagoney body rosewood fret board Les with the pickup JB very good P/u. Getting a Jazz installed in neck this weekend

 

[LLL]

Re: Seymour Duncan JB Van halen

On those panned tracks, you've got a bit more high end compared to EVH. It's more noticeable on the first two tracks, but still stuck out to me. I listened through a pair of Sennheiser studio headphones. Did you use a 250k or 500k volume pot?

Yeah, they're not perfect clones (some aren't even 100% in tune with each other), but very close.

500k volume, 500k tone. Come to think of it, I used a few "non-EVH-canonical" pieces of equipment: Celestion Alnico Gold speaker, tone pot, etc.

Keep in mind on those tracks - that I did add a little DAW eq. Used my ears to match as best as possible.

I don't know if you've heard the pre-studio-magic EVH guitar track snippets (floating out on the web somewhere) of the beginning of "Runnin' With The Devil" (this would be the tone coming straight off the mics), but what's interesting about them is the tone is nothing to write home about. Ted & Donn really zapped it good.

 

[LLL]

Re: Seymour Duncan JB Van halen

I wouldn't really say that's true since Dave Friedman is a moderator on the MetroAmp forums and the late Rockstah was a valued member there. Both of them were builders with their own products for sale. There's plenty of guys on there that do their own builds. Hell, there's threads about guys building from scratch, using CeriaTone kits, Weber kits, etc. They're ga-ga over the Bugera 1960 over there! I've had questions and they've always graciously answered them.

So, no, I don't like hanging out in a den of insecure jerks and thieves, but I do like hanging out there and (usually) like hanging out here.

Last I heard, Dave F. and George had a falling out a few years ago, then Dave F. came back. Yes, they're collaborating.

Dave Friedman is not a moderator (even though it says he is) - Mightymike is the mod. Geo & Dave don't have the time.

Speaking of Rockstah, did you know that Mightymike (George's buddy and the real moderator - a real jackass) banned Rockstah from there?

Rockstah was selling his Mod 5 and ol' George didn't like it.

I don't know how long you've been there, but it is a far cry from what it used to be. All the cool, useful people left years ago (or got their
info stolen and subsequently banned). Shades of Plexi Palace (Vic the chump)... deja vu all over again. Another great forum killed by ****heads
who don't know how to run a business and/or leave their business forum in the hands of ***clowns.

 

[LLL]

Re: Seymour Duncan JB Van halen

One other thing:

The big mystery surrounding this tone (e.g. "how did he get so much gain from a stock plexi, etc..??!!??") is actually very simple (therefore, even tougher to figure out because most are looking for a convoluted answer).

It's the variac'd amp in conjunction with the (real) Echoplex preamp. These two combined give the illusion that there's tons of gain and crunch.

Ed's gain is actually pretty clean in comparison to what we have available nowadays.

The variac makes the amp grind.

-and-

The EP3 adds its own "tone-enhancing magic" on top of the grind, scoops the mids a little and deepens/tightens the bass. Like the cherry on top.

That's as best as I can describe it.

 

[pittbull]

Re: Seymour Duncan JB Van halen

LLL you are 100% correct about metro amp I and many others that gave REAL knowledge there including Mark abrahimain(Rockstah-RIP) were banned and the knowledge that we gave they(metro)would use it as if they(metro)came up with that knowledge.As for dave friedman he didn't start to do work for Edward until the early 90s,Jose Arrendondo was Edwards main amp guy from the early 70s to the very early 90s.As for dave friedman his knowledge came from Bruce Egnator.

 

[pittbull]

Re: Seymour Duncan JB Van halen

....

 

[pittbull]

Re: Seymour Duncan JB Van halen

...

 

[Aasinsilta]

Re: Seymour Duncan JB Van halen

Yeah, they're not perfect clones (some aren't even 100% in tune with each other), but very close.

500k volume, 500k tone. Come to think of it, I used a few "non-EVH-canonical" pieces of equipment: Celestion Alnico Gold speaker, tone pot, etc.

Keep in mind on those tracks - that I did add a little DAW eq. Used my ears to match as best as possible.

I don't know if you've heard the pre-studio-magic EVH guitar track snippets (floating out on the web somewhere) of the beginning of "Runnin' With The Devil" (this would be the tone coming straight off the mics), but what's interesting about them is the tone is nothing to write home about. Ted & Donn really zapped it good.

I think with a 250k you would have nailed the tone, as EVH likely used a 250k as it was what in his Strat before. I could be wrong, never researched his tone/gear to that detail. Although what's the fun in copping a guy's tone exactly, IMO all this type of research is best applied if you use it to get your tone where you want it to be, not where the other guy did.

 

[Van Noord]

Re: Seymour Duncan JB Van halen

I also read and saw a photo of EVH using a small blue MXR EQ pedal infront of his amp in the early days. If so, that element would greatly alter/disguise the perceived tone he got from any pickup.

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Seymour Duncan JB Van halen

I love EVH's tone but this thread made me sleepy.