Seymour Duncan mV Data
- Thread starter Scott Olson
- Start date
IMENATOR
Well-known member
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data
bump, I do want a list like this for the single coils too
bump, I do want a list like this for the single coils too
gregory
New member
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data
There are a few data points that I find highly suspicious:
SH-10n Full Shred 709
SH-18n Whole Lotta HB Neck 382
SH-18b Whole Lotta HB bridge 440
TB-15 Alternative 8 Trembkr Black 651
SH-15 Alternative 8 Black 761
PA-TB2b Distortion Parallel Axis 741
PA-TB1b Original Parallel Axis 749
There are a few data points that I find highly suspicious:
SH-10n Full Shred 709
SH-18n Whole Lotta HB Neck 382
SH-18b Whole Lotta HB bridge 440
TB-15 Alternative 8 Trembkr Black 651
SH-15 Alternative 8 Black 761
PA-TB2b Distortion Parallel Axis 741
PA-TB1b Original Parallel Axis 749
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TRex
New member
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data
Excuse me if I'm wrong, I'm doing this off memory from AP Physics C: E&M last semester.
Assuming there is less variance in he magnets and winds than there could be human error, the more accurate way of comparing pickups in a theortical sense would be to to use the equation
V= N(dΦ/dt) (Φ is magnetic flux)
Which can be made into
V= Blv where L is the length of wire, B is the magnet feild strength (we will use at the surface for this, in reality it will be weaker) and v is the velocity of the string above the pickup causing he change in flux.
So since velocity is the same for all of them in theory, we can ignore it.
The length of wire and resistance are proportional, so we can multiply B and the resistance to get a relative voltage number we can use to gauge how loud the pickup is.
According to a quick Google search the B values at surface s of magnets are:
Alnico 5 is roughly 1.2 Tesla
A3 is .65 Telsa
A2 is .75 Telsa
So we can use this to gauge how both the winds and the magnet effect the volume of a pickup.
Or be more accurate if Duncan would just release the length of wire used on each model?
Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk
Excuse me if I'm wrong, I'm doing this off memory from AP Physics C: E&M last semester.
Assuming there is less variance in he magnets and winds than there could be human error, the more accurate way of comparing pickups in a theortical sense would be to to use the equation
V= N(dΦ/dt) (Φ is magnetic flux)
Which can be made into
V= Blv where L is the length of wire, B is the magnet feild strength (we will use at the surface for this, in reality it will be weaker) and v is the velocity of the string above the pickup causing he change in flux.
So since velocity is the same for all of them in theory, we can ignore it.
The length of wire and resistance are proportional, so we can multiply B and the resistance to get a relative voltage number we can use to gauge how loud the pickup is.
According to a quick Google search the B values at surface s of magnets are:
Alnico 5 is roughly 1.2 Tesla
A3 is .65 Telsa
A2 is .75 Telsa
So we can use this to gauge how both the winds and the magnet effect the volume of a pickup.
Or be more accurate if Duncan would just release the length of wire used on each model?
Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk
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Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data
A few things: these tests were done a few years ago, so unless the people involved in the tests come on here and answer the questions (read earlier in the thread for testing methods), we can speculate about the legitimacy of the tests all we want. I don't think SD would be in a rush to reveal the 'length of wire' in each pickup.
A few things: these tests were done a few years ago, so unless the people involved in the tests come on here and answer the questions (read earlier in the thread for testing methods), we can speculate about the legitimacy of the tests all we want. I don't think SD would be in a rush to reveal the 'length of wire' in each pickup.
gregory
New member
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data
I'd be happy just to see an explanation for the data points I raised, even if just speculative.
All the trembucker vs standard numbers match for every pickup but the Alternative 8.
The WLH set is being billed as hotter than standard PAF (with the 59 being SD's answer for standard PAF).
"Distortion"-grade PATB is weaker than standard?
The Full Shred neck is way out of line from its closest siblings. I have one as well as an SH-6n and can tell you the FSn is nowhere near being a flame-thrower.
I'd be happy just to see an explanation for the data points I raised, even if just speculative.
All the trembucker vs standard numbers match for every pickup but the Alternative 8.
The WLH set is being billed as hotter than standard PAF (with the 59 being SD's answer for standard PAF).
"Distortion"-grade PATB is weaker than standard?
The Full Shred neck is way out of line from its closest siblings. I have one as well as an SH-6n and can tell you the FSn is nowhere near being a flame-thrower.
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STLMTLHD79
New member
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data
I found it strange as well that the Screamin Demon has such low mV. I know its not a hot pickup, but i would have put it in the high 5's/low 6's category. As others stated with the Parallel Axis differences.
I found it strange as well that the Screamin Demon has such low mV. I know its not a hot pickup, but i would have put it in the high 5's/low 6's category. As others stated with the Parallel Axis differences.
STLMTLHD79
New member
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data
I would also like to see where the RTM, IM1 and 78' are in comparison to all these production models.
I would also like to see where the RTM, IM1 and 78' are in comparison to all these production models.
gregory
New member
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data
You need to dig in hard to get a lot of voltage from a Screamin' Demon. In addition, it hits your amp in a different spot. So considering the apparatus used to take the measurement and how it does or doesn't translate, I don't find the figure to be all that unreasonable.
You need to dig in hard to get a lot of voltage from a Screamin' Demon. In addition, it hits your amp in a different spot. So considering the apparatus used to take the measurement and how it does or doesn't translate, I don't find the figure to be all that unreasonable.
LtKojak
New member
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data
I've several times contested the data produced. This happened in a period where several employees left and others got fired, most probably due to the sitegate debacle, so I thought a big part of the data was simply made up, as the people tasked with it was to let go anyway. Wonder why the single-coil mV data was never produced/released?
I've several times contested the data produced. This happened in a period where several employees left and others got fired, most probably due to the sitegate debacle, so I thought a big part of the data was simply made up, as the people tasked with it was to let go anyway. Wonder why the single-coil mV data was never produced/released?
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data
Screw mv anyway, why don't they just have a few trusted duncannaddicts to sit down and rank the classics on a 1-10 scale and then go through all the newer models and see where they fit-in on output. Make the loudest couple 11s just for marketing emphasis (drama) lol.
Screw mv anyway, why don't they just have a few trusted duncannaddicts to sit down and rank the classics on a 1-10 scale and then go through all the newer models and see where they fit-in on output. Make the loudest couple 11s just for marketing emphasis (drama) lol.
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data
I don't know the circumstances of the mV tests- all I know is what is in this thread. I would think if other pickups were going to be tested for mV output, they probably would be. Personally, the most correct information given out before purchasing is a good thing, but I am not sure why the website's color graphs are inconsistent, either. There is a lot of terrible information out there (like DC=output, and stuff like that) which people on this forum constantly combat. I do appreciate that. Getting people to change their pickups and not think it is this scary, shot-in-the-dark thing is something I constantly fight on here. I thank you all for helping me with that.
I don't know the circumstances of the mV tests- all I know is what is in this thread. I would think if other pickups were going to be tested for mV output, they probably would be. Personally, the most correct information given out before purchasing is a good thing, but I am not sure why the website's color graphs are inconsistent, either. There is a lot of terrible information out there (like DC=output, and stuff like that) which people on this forum constantly combat. I do appreciate that. Getting people to change their pickups and not think it is this scary, shot-in-the-dark thing is something I constantly fight on here. I thank you all for helping me with that.
Silence Kid
New member
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data
I think the attitude that the company somehow owes anyone this data is off-putting; go to a boutique winder's page, they usually haven't volunteered any such data at all, and no one who buys those pickups seems to complain about that.
Not to say the consumer wouldn't have utility for the measurements... In fact I wonder if it's a risk to the company to further elaborate "official" readings, people might request pickup returns due to their own measurements being only fractions off. Reminds me of hearing that certain brands of car have "gauges" that seem to give precise measurements for things like oil pressure, but in reality max out somewhere mid-gauge as long as things were in spec. just so people wouldn't try to compare new cars to each other.
I think the attitude that the company somehow owes anyone this data is off-putting; go to a boutique winder's page, they usually haven't volunteered any such data at all, and no one who buys those pickups seems to complain about that.
Not to say the consumer wouldn't have utility for the measurements... In fact I wonder if it's a risk to the company to further elaborate "official" readings, people might request pickup returns due to their own measurements being only fractions off. Reminds me of hearing that certain brands of car have "gauges" that seem to give precise measurements for things like oil pressure, but in reality max out somewhere mid-gauge as long as things were in spec. just so people wouldn't try to compare new cars to each other.
Jacew
New member
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data
The very reason I went for SD pickups in first place was because the website gave simple, easy compare data about the products and how they relate to each other. Just saying that it's great for hard driving blues rock, or that it's vintage hot etc... is nowhere near accurate enough.
I don't think I'm only person who will not spend hundred(s) to a product that they don't have very clear view about.
The very reason I went for SD pickups in first place was because the website gave simple, easy compare data about the products and how they relate to each other. Just saying that it's great for hard driving blues rock, or that it's vintage hot etc... is nowhere near accurate enough.
I don't think I'm only person who will not spend hundred(s) to a product that they don't have very clear view about.
stratguy23
New member
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data
I'm pretty sure that SD's publication of this data is mainly to compete with Dimarzio's.
Consumers like to know more about what they're paying for. And those seeking aftermarket pickups are more likely to want to solve specific problems - "I need more low end in a bridge pickup," "I need a high output pickup with scooped mids", "I need a non-boomy neck pickup". While BMT measurements are coarse (probably ideally mids should be split into high mids, mid mids, and low mids), they're better than nothing at all in terms of helping get in the ballpark of the solution.
The current mV numbers listed on SD's site are more accurate than those originally listed in this thread. If one sorts pickup listings on the SD site by output, one gets pretty much what one would expect.
If you really want mV numbers, they are there in the source code for each pickup page, but those numbers are of limited value b/c SD's testing methods differ from those of other manufacturers. The mV numbers could be useful in comparing pickups of different types, e.g., ensuring balanced output in an HS set, but even then, I've found that going by numbers alone doesn't always equal real world results.
I think the SD site strikes a good balance in terms of how much information to present to the user. Listing "DCR" under "OUTPUT" is problematic, but I can see how that decision was made in terms of page design.
I'm pretty sure that SD's publication of this data is mainly to compete with Dimarzio's.
Consumers like to know more about what they're paying for. And those seeking aftermarket pickups are more likely to want to solve specific problems - "I need more low end in a bridge pickup," "I need a high output pickup with scooped mids", "I need a non-boomy neck pickup". While BMT measurements are coarse (probably ideally mids should be split into high mids, mid mids, and low mids), they're better than nothing at all in terms of helping get in the ballpark of the solution.
The current mV numbers listed on SD's site are more accurate than those originally listed in this thread. If one sorts pickup listings on the SD site by output, one gets pretty much what one would expect.
If you really want mV numbers, they are there in the source code for each pickup page, but those numbers are of limited value b/c SD's testing methods differ from those of other manufacturers. The mV numbers could be useful in comparing pickups of different types, e.g., ensuring balanced output in an HS set, but even then, I've found that going by numbers alone doesn't always equal real world results.
I think the SD site strikes a good balance in terms of how much information to present to the user. Listing "DCR" under "OUTPUT" is problematic, but I can see how that decision was made in terms of page design.
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Silence Kid
New member
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data
You could give me a hundred fields of data tested with perfect precision, and I still couldn't tell you whether I chose the correct or incorrect pickup without playing it.
I agree more info is always better from a consumer perspective, but it's also an easy trap for some consumers to fall into, when a pragmatic assessment of a pickup is superseded by numbers. I prefer to think Duncan's exchange policy in the US negates having to deep dive into decimals and fractions too much and will lead to a happier consumer in the long run.
You could give me a hundred fields of data tested with perfect precision, and I still couldn't tell you whether I chose the correct or incorrect pickup without playing it.
I agree more info is always better from a consumer perspective, but it's also an easy trap for some consumers to fall into, when a pragmatic assessment of a pickup is superseded by numbers. I prefer to think Duncan's exchange policy in the US negates having to deep dive into decimals and fractions too much and will lead to a happier consumer in the long run.
