Seymours favorites Jazz + JB question

[Osensei]

I have a set of Jazz +JB pickups. I was wondering why Seymour specifies .047 cap instead of the .02 caps that are in so many Les Pauls?

I was also thinking about doing the vintage 59 burst wiring scheme as I posted in another thread, but I wonder how that will turn out for a Jazz + JB combo. I'm thinking there must be a good reason for the wiring Seymour chose for his humbuckers.

 

[hanumanlangur]

Re: Seymours favorites Jazz + JB question

Actually, I really think that 0.022uf works better for the JB/Jazz. I can understand why some people would like 0.047uf for PAF-type humbuckers, but for this set, I think that 0.022uf gives more versatility by preserving upper-mids....

 

[heavydutysg135]

Re: Seymours favorites Jazz + JB question

Can you show me where you found this information, I thought that Seymour used a .022 uf.

 

[heavydutysg135]

Re: Seymours favorites Jazz + JB question

I just found where the .047 uf cap is listed with humbuckers (in the wiring diagrams section). Does anyone know if Seymour actually uses a .022 or .047 cap with the 250K volume and 250K tone?

 

[Toejam]

Re: Seymours favorites Jazz + JB question

.047 is mainly used for basses, but it would warm things up a bit and give more low end in a guitar. If using the JB with a 250k pot, I probably wouldn't bother using the .047.

 

[Diocletian]

Re: Seymours favorites Jazz + JB question

.047 is mainly used for basses, but it would warm things up a bit and give more low end in a guitar. If using the JB with a 250k pot, I probably wouldn't bother using the .047.

Are you the helpful chap from JCF?

250k, 500k, 0.22 or 0.47, do these choices really make a very noticeable difference?
What would happen if no cap at all was used?

 

[Osensei]

Re: Seymours favorites Jazz + JB question

So are you saying that because the JB is such a high frequency screamer a .047uf is used to tame it down a bit?

 

[Osensei]

Re: Seymours favorites Jazz + JB question

I just found where the .047 uf cap is listed with humbuckers (in the wiring diagrams section). Does anyone know if Seymour actually uses a .022 or .047 cap with the 250K volume and 250K tone?

I would suspect that 250k pots are used for strat type guitars equipped with humbuckers and not Les Pauls. Strats tend to be very bright because of the woods and construction that are used for them. For that reason, the 250K pots are used to warm them up. Les Pauls are mahogany and need to be brightened up because they are very dark guitars tone wise. So for LPs, 500k pots are used.

Since the goal is to warm up the strat types, then I suspect the .047 would help to warm them up more than the .22 because the .47 would filter out more of the highs.

That's just my educated guess. Ask our forum mates to confirm this.

 

[heavydutysg135]

Re: Seymours favorites Jazz + JB question

I would suspect that 250k pots are used for strat type guitars equipped with humbuckers and not Les Pauls. Strats tend to be very bright because of the woods and construction that are used for them. For that reason, the 250K pots are used to warm them up. Les Pauls are mahogany and need to be brightened up because they are very dark guitars tone wise. So for LPs, 500k pots are used.

Since the goal is to warm up the strat types, then I suspect the .047 would help to warm them up more than the .22 because the .47 would filter out more of the highs.

That's just my educated guess. Ask our forum mates to confirm this.

That does not seem to be the case here as the diagram in question was from a dual humbucker guitar, not a strat with two singles and a humbucker bridge.

 

[Osensei]

Re: Seymours favorites Jazz + JB question

That does not seem to be the case here as the diagram in question was from a dual humbucker guitar, not a strat with two singles and a humbucker bridge.

Dual humbucker? That could mean anything? For instance a Tele w/ 2 humbuckers, or a Schecter C1 Elite, or an ESP Horizon! None of those are Les Pauls and depending on the guitar and the materials used 500ks might be too bright for them. You see? It all depends. I've even seen the "Big Apple Strat" that had 2 humbuckers. The latter is an ideal candidate for 250k pots.

Maple, swamp ash and woods of that sort tend to make a guitar bright. So does ebony. So it depends on the the makeup of the guitar.

 

[Toejam]

Re: Seymours favorites Jazz + JB question

So are you saying that because the JB is such a high frequency screamer a .047uf is used to tame it down a bit?

I would think so. I had a poplar Jackson Dinky years ago that a friend put in a .047, and it definitely was a little warmer than the original cap that was in it, which I can't really recall the value offhand, but it was probably a .022. And I believe the volume and tone pots were both 500k.

 

[Toejam]

Re: Seymours favorites Jazz + JB question

Are you the helpful chap from JCF?

250k, 500k, 0.22 or 0.47, do these choices really make a very noticeable difference?
What would happen if no cap at all was used?

Yes, that would be me.

Those choices do make a difference. The 250k is warmer sounding than than the 500k. And a 1 meg pot would be even brighter than the 500k.

If there were no cap at all, then I believe your tone pot wouldn't work. Maybe it would just turn it into a volume control? I'm not sure offhand.

 

[Toejam]

Re: Seymours favorites Jazz + JB question

I've even seen the "Big Apple Strat" that had 2 humbuckers. The latter is an ideal candidate for 250k pots.

I've got a Double Fat Strat, which is what the Big Apple Strat turned into. I don't know about the pots in the BA, but the DF has a 250k tone pot for the bridge Pearly Gates Plus pickup, and a 500k tone pot for the neck '59, and I'm pretty sure the volume pot is 500k.

 

[hamerfan]

Re: Seymours favorites Jazz + JB question

Toejam, thats pretty common and the fav concept of our forum bro Blueman. You preserve all highs you can have in the neck with the 500k and warm the humbucker in the bridge with a 250k.
I personally bought a set of uncalibrated CTS pot for my Les Paul. The highest reading was 510k, became the neck volume. The lowest pot with 480 became the bridge volume.
A forum bro of the les paul forum did a external switching harness for his LP and switched different volume pots while checking the highs. His findings were huge difference between 250k and 500k. Fewer differences between 500k and 1 Meg. Subtle difference between 1 Meg and direct coupling to the output.

 

[hanumanlangur]

Re: Seymours favorites Jazz + JB question

Really, a lot of this stuff has to do with what you want out of each pickup. Some people want to have the same amount of treble in both pickups. Some people want them to be different for more versatility. Some people like the tone knob to make drastic changes and filter out a lot, while other people like it to smooth out the tone more subtly. Unless you know what you want out of each pickup, you're most likely going to be stumbling in the dark, hoping to get lucky with the right pots/caps.

 

[Toejam]

Re: Seymours favorites Jazz + JB question

Toejam, thats pretty common and the fav concept of our forum bro Blueman. You preserve all highs you can have in the neck with the 500k and warm the humbucker in the bridge with a 250k.

Definitely makes sense to me. I couldn't imagine a 500k on the bridge of my Fender, as the Pearly Gates Plus is bright enough for me with the 250k. For the most part, I've always liked a warmer bridge pup with a brighter neck pup... seems to balance things out better. I typically use 500k pots in my other guitars, but I may eventually change to 250 on all bridge pups to warm things up even further.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Seymours favorites Jazz + JB question

I think this is more personal preference than pickup driven.

With a 500 Kohm pot at 10 you can barely here the difference between two (similar quality) 22 and 47 nF capacitors.

It is when you roll the tone pot down when 22 and 47 nF show a different curve, and what kind of curve you like is a matter of personal taste.

I recommend that you get some crocodile clips and quickly go through both variants. Costs you as good as nothing in money and 10 minutes of your time.

 

[heavydutysg135]

Re: Seymours favorites Jazz + JB question

I think this is more personal preference than pickup driven.

With a 500 Kohm pot at 10 you can barely here the difference between two (similar quality) 22 and 47 nF capacitors.

It is when you roll the tone pot down when 22 and 47 nF show a different curve, and what kind of curve you like is a matter of personal taste.

I recommend that you get some crocodile clips and quickly go through both variants. Costs you as good as nothing in money and 10 minutes of your time.

Great advice!

 

[Franluthier]

Re: Seymours favorites Jazz + JB question

Definitely makes sense to me. I couldn't imagine a 500k on the bridge of my Fender, as the Pearly Gates Plus is bright enough for me with the 250k. For the most part, I've always liked a warmer bridge pup with a brighter neck pup... seems to balance things out better. I typically use 500k pots in my other guitars, but I may eventually change to 250 on all bridge pups to warm things up even further.

I've explained this before, but seems some people still have doubts...

A tone pot is a passive low pass filter. The value of the tone pot plus the cap, is what makes it a tone pot! with no cap it's just a pot that does nothing...
The value of the pot, and the cap are important because they define the filter curve. As I said before, 250k + 0.022, will work different than 250k + 0.047, and 500k + 0.022 will work different than 500k + 0.047. All of these 4 combinations sound different! because each value sets a different Frequency cut spot.

In the case of the volume pot the value is related with that said about more highs for 500k and less highs for 250k.

That means Toejam that If your strat has 250k in the tone it's just to make a different curve, your volume is still a 500k pot and it is working for neck and bridge so there is no difference at all you're working with the same amount of highs for both pickups, but have different curves for tone pots.

You use 250 k for singles because singles are brighter than buckers, not because of wood, just the pickup is brighter enough electronically speaking!!! The opposite way Buckers use 500k cause it's better to have more highs in pickups that lack of highs (this happens to most single coil lovers like me, that when we switch to a guitar with buckers we miss some brightness), and some people uses 250k in some buckers like JBs cause they want the pickup to sound less bright.

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: Seymours favorites Jazz + JB question

he puts them in a telecaster

not a les paul