Seymours for a Les Paul Standard (Premium Plus)

[YellowJacket]

Ok, here is the deal. I've had my Godin LG for many years and I managed to luck out with the perfect pickup combination for that guitar. Now I want to swap pickups in my Gibson Les Paul. (2002 Standard Premium Plus with 60s profile neck) I know I'm happy with the sound of the instrument but the pickups irritate me a bit. It has the Burstbucker Pro pickups and I find them to be unbalanced. My complaints are

1) When EQing clean for the neck pickup, the bridge pickup is far too bright and thin to even be usable
2) The bridge pickup sounds thin at low to mid gain settings and only starts to beef up with high gain settings. The problem with this is that the neck pickup becomes muddy when using it with the gain channel.

Basically, I get the impression the guitar is tuned to do the high gain rock thing well. Gotta keep up with PRS and I want something more usable.

I LOVE the sound of the Alnico II Pro (Neck) and Custom Custom (Bridge) in my Godin LG but the issue is that it is a 24 fret neck, rosewood fingerboard, and a solid mahogany body. The tone of the guitar is like right smack in the middle of a Strat and a Les Paul. I'm sure you are all more than aware how a pickup that is perfect for one instrument can be god awful for another. For example, I dumped a PRS HFS into the Godin and it sounded like absolute ass in that guitar. Meanwhile, it sounds like heaven in a PRS Singlecut.

I know this is a bit ridiculous of a request but I'd just like some input here. Basically, I want pickups that are balanced enough in terms of frequency response that they are capable of working together. I want a beefy and full low - mid gain tone as well as having something that can handle high gain rock tones when necessary. I like a sweet mid focused creamy crunch that doesn't fizz or ice pick too much in the high end. For cleans, I'm pretty happy with the neck Burstbucker save for the excessive bass. I mean, it can be dialed down but that makes the bridge unusable. I'd also like the middle position with both pickups to produce something usable.

 

[super rad stuff]

Re: Seymours for a Les Paul Standard (Premium Plus)

do you still have the stock pots in there? i'd say change them all to 500k pots to make the pickups brighter. if you haven't set up the pickup heights, i'd say lower the neck and raise the screws out a bit, and do the opposite for the bridge. then, if that doesn't work and you don't mind tinkering a bit, try a different magnet, maybe an a4 or a8 in the bridge spot. an a4 will keep the same basic character of the pickup, but add mids while taking away just a bit of treble and bass for a flatter EQ, while an a8 will basically be like an a4 but with the output of ceramic. this way, you can EQ for clarity in the neck, but it won't sound thin when you switch to the bridge.

 

[YellowJacket]

Re: Seymours for a Les Paul Standard (Premium Plus)

Thanks for the reply! So far I have heard many recommendations to change the pots to 500k. It doesn't really look like it will be costly so it might be worthwhile. What about changing the caps too? That is another recommendation that was given to me at the Les Paul forums.

Do you know what the factory specs are for pickup heights offhand? I haven't mucked about with the screws yet so it is definitely something to try.

 

[super rad stuff]

Re: Seymours for a Les Paul Standard (Premium Plus)

Thanks for the reply! So far I have heard many recommendations to change the pots to 500k. It doesn't really look like it will be costly so it might be worthwhile. What about changing the caps too? That is another recommendation that was given to me at the Les Paul forums.

Do you know what the factory specs are for pickup heights offhand? I haven't mucked about with the screws yet so it is definitely something to try.

caps, i say don't bother unless you don't like the sounds you're getting when you turn your tone knobs down. imo, orange drop caps are decent enough for about a dollar each and come in convenient guitar-oriented specs. as far as factory pickup height spec, i have no idea. i just listen for the changes

you can find all of that stuff for reasonable prices at wymoreguitars.

 

[AudioWonderland]

Re: Seymours for a Les Paul Standard (Premium Plus)

A PG or jazz in the neck. Plenty of clarity for the neck slot. If you like the higher output in the bridge a custom or C5. I would not go with a CC in a LP.

I like a set of Seth's or Antiquities in LP's personally

 

[DonP]

Re: Seymours for a Les Paul Standard (Premium Plus)

do you still have the stock pots in there? i'd say change them all to 500k pots to make the pickups brighter.

He already said the bridge is too thin and bright.

if you haven't set up the pickup heights, i'd say lower the neck and raise the screws out a bit, and do the opposite for the bridge. then, if that doesn't work and you don't mind tinkering a bit, try a different magnet, maybe an a4 or a8 in the bridge spot. an a4 will keep the same basic character of the pickup, but add mids while taking away just a bit of treble and bass for a flatter EQ, while an a8 will basically be like an a4 but with the output of ceramic. this way, you can EQ for clarity in the neck, but it won't sound thin when you switch to the bridge.

I'd agree to this. The BB Pro neck has a lot of balls. Lower it and raise the poles. Raise the bridge and lower the poles.

You can try changing the neck cap to .015. I did this on my 1996 Les Paul Classic Premium Plus with a 60s neck. In this guitar, I went with 520K pots all around.

For my 2002 LP Standard, I left it stock. I don't have the issues you are having.

My 2004 R0 I upgrades caps and pots.

My 1977 LP Custom is stock.

 

[super rad stuff]

Re: Seymours for a Les Paul Standard (Premium Plus)

He already said the bridge is too thin and bright.

I'd agree to this. The BB Pro neck has a lot of balls. Lower it and raise the poles. Raise the bridge and lower the poles.

You can try changing the neck cap to .015. I did this on my 1996 Les Paul Classic Premium Plus with a 60s neck. In this guitar, I went with 520K pots all around.

For my 2002 LP Standard, I left it stock. I don't have the issues you are having.

My 2004 R0 I upgrades caps and pots.

My 1977 LP Custom is stock.

ah, i did forget to mention, he should probably leave the stock value unless he decides to swap to a fatter magnet.

 

[YellowJacket]

Re: Seymours for a Les Paul Standard (Premium Plus)

Ok, I was fiddling around with the pole pieces. I dropped the neck pickup and raised the pole pieces. I can say I'm happy with this one. Afterwords, I raised the bridge pickup and dropped the pole pieces, and dropped the pole pieces, and dropped them again. It got me closer to what I want but it still is not perfect. I love how the tone is getting much more phat but I hear a frequency spike in the highs (gain) that sounds papery no matter what I do. After this spike, the highs just roll off. I can't tell if it is the amp, the room, the cab, or the pickup. I tried to google EQ frequencies to see if I could figure where it is but I'm not sure exactly. (maybe 4k?) All I know is that when I turn up the treble pot on my amp, I hear it get louder. Could this be related to the pots?

http://www.audiocheck.net/engineertraining_bands_difficult.php

Well, I did figure out at least that I like the neck pickup a lot but it is the bridge one that is bugging me. It's a start at least.

 

[super rad stuff]

Re: Seymours for a Les Paul Standard (Premium Plus)

it might just be the treble response of the a5 magnet which is naturally bright. people don't often have this complaint with the standard burstbucker 2, which is essentially the unpotted a2 version of the potted a5 bbpro bridge.

 

[drpietrzak]

Re: Seymours for a Les Paul Standard (Premium Plus)

For whatever reason I have never gotten along with the BB Pro's. I have tried a number of pups in my LP. I have 500 K pots and .22 caps (I think) from RS. I have the 50th Ann Seth Lovers (A2) in it now which are a slightly hotter Seth Lover as I understand it. I personally would not be afraid of the APII in the neck and a CC in the bridge. It will have a bit the Slash vibe to it in that case (to me). I have had this set in a number of guitars and it works well. With 500K pots I have not found it too muddy. But, your taste may differ. Anther 24.75" maple cap mahog body (maple neck though) guitar I have has the standard Seth Lover neck and a C5 bridge. It is also a good combination to me. It takes a bit to set pickup heights there is all. My favorite neck pickups are:

Seth Lover, APII, Antiquity & Gibson 57. I testing a DZO 36th soon. For the bridge I like the C5, Seth Lover, Antiquity, Gbson 57+, 59 and CC. I am testing DZO 36th here as well.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Seymours for a Les Paul Standard (Premium Plus)

What amp and what kind of music?

I always have to ask what you mean by having both pups "work" together. For example, I have a PG/CC set in an Epi LP Classic. They are AMAZING together. They COMPLIMENT each other. The CC adds mids to the CC. The PG adds bass to the CC. A tweak of volume or tone makes all kinds of cool shades of clean tone.

I also love a ceramic blended with an A2 style neck. Just dial up/down the volume to really put some definition/edge in the neck pup mix.

I would say it sounds like one of your main issues is loss of treble when dialing down volume. 500k pots AND the 50's mod may really be what you need.

Try this combo (with the above electronics): PG neck, 59 Bridge.

 

[DonP]

Re: Seymours for a Les Paul Standard (Premium Plus)

What amp and what kind of music?

+1000.

This is seeming to be a waste of time if I'm giving advise for crunchy metal and someone else is giving blues advise and yet someone else is giving advise for Ska / Punk / whatever.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Seymours for a Les Paul Standard (Premium Plus)

+1000.

This is seeming to be a waste of time if I'm giving advise for crunchy metal and someone else is giving blues advise and yet someone else is giving advise for Ska / Punk / whatever.

Thus my question. But I'd never let that stop me from giving useless unspecific solicited advice....

 

[super rad stuff]

Re: Seymours for a Les Paul Standard (Premium Plus)

+1000.

This is seeming to be a waste of time if I'm giving advise for crunchy metal and someone else is giving blues advise and yet someone else is giving advise for Ska / Punk / whatever.

ska/punk/whatever?:lmao:

 

[YellowJacket]

Re: Seymours for a Les Paul Standard (Premium Plus)

What amp and what kind of music?

Ya, tone is really a difficult question because everyone hears something different as 'the tone' they want. I"m going to youtube a few examples and I'll try to keep it to something in the ballpark. I find a good clean is much easier to get and I really do know what to look for with that. It is the gain tone that always pisses me off. Right now I'm playing a Dual Rectifier through a custom built thiele 2 x 12 with a v30 and a G12m Heritage. I use yellowjackets with EL-84s for this cab. I have a Mesa Rectocab which I use with EL-34 tubes. For what its worth, I absolutely love the Mesa Electra Dyne right now and was seriously considering swapping my dual for one of these.

I think a moment of truth for me was when my friend played his PRS through my Mesa. It just made the amp come alive, like it was made for it. The Gibson sounds great but there is some magic missing and it isn't the guitar.

High Gain: (Pay attention to tone, not style)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENBv2i88g6Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy_LNrGofKQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvmcJZ5r1o0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFxLoVnq5_Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8ekz_CSBVg

Style is variable, I don't even know what it is anymore. I used to play chord based riffing style heavy rock about six years back; a style for which my gear was perfect. Think lots of chugging, palm muting, huge power chords, octave leads, and fat string riffs. Since then, I have picked up cello and as a result, I have developed my left hand quite a bit. I now spend a lot more time playing lead and cleans and I'm interested in long legato phrases and intricate passagework. I vary my attack a lot now when I play and I use that to reduce gain for lighter mid gain type chording.

Like I said, I have an Alnico II Pro in the bridge and a Custom Custom in the neck of my other guitar and I absolutely love them but that axe is a solid mahogany body and neck with a rosewood fingerboard and a 24 fret slim neck that is slightly longer than a Les Paul. The tone of this instrument is right slap in the middle of a Les Paul and a Strat. It has the bright chime of a strat combined with the meat of a Les Paul. The Les Paul by comparison has a much warmer and fuller sound.

I always have to ask what you mean by having both pups "work" together. For example, I have a PG/CC set in an Epi LP Classic. They are AMAZING together. They COMPLIMENT each other. The CC adds mids to the CC. The PG adds bass to the CC. A tweak of volume or tone makes all kinds of cool shades of clean tone.

Currently, I'd have to have four channels to make use of all my pickups. Two clean, one for each pickup, and two gain, one for each pickup. When I EQ for the bridge pickup, the neck pickup is too bassy but if I EQ for the neck pickup, the bridge pickup also sounds too bassy. I also dislike how there is a high frequency spike that stabs me. I want something sweeter, thicker, and more even.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Seymours for a Les Paul Standard (Premium Plus)

After trying a lot of neck pickups in LP's, I've come to like the Pearly Gates neck the most, because it's output is perfect and it's beautifully voiced and not boomy like a 59.

I'd suggest starting with a Custom 5 bridge. The Custom series wind is perfect for swapping magnets, so if for some reason you don't love the C5, you can move in another direction like ceramic, A8, or A2. Sell your stock pickups to recoup half the cost.

I have the same guitar and came to rest on the Custom Shop Brobucker (factory potted by request) and the Pearly Gates neck. That guitar sounds great now.

 

[YellowJacket]

Re: Seymours for a Les Paul Standard (Premium Plus)

After trying a lot of neck pickups in LP's, I've come to like the Pearly Gates neck the most, because it's output is perfect and it's beautifully voiced and not boomy like a 59.

I'd suggest starting with a Custom 5 bridge. The Custom series wind is perfect for swapping magnets, so if for some reason you don't love the C5, you can move in another direction like ceramic, A8, or A2. Sell your stock pickups to recoup half the cost.

I have the same guitar and came to rest on the Custom Shop Brobucker (factory potted by request) and the Pearly Gates neck. That guitar sounds great now.

Yes, BOOMY exactly describes the Burstbucker Pro neck pickup.

Brobucker . . .
Notes: Designed by members of the Seymour Duncan User Forum.

interesting . . .

My Godin came factory equipped with the Custom 5. I found it yielded very muddy gain tones on that guitar and the cleans were bright and thin. The Custom Custom is a far better pickup for that instrument. The Les Paul-by comparison-is a much warmer sounding instrument so it might work. Are Alnico II pickups (Alnico II pro, Custom Custom, etc) too warm for the maple topped guitars?

 

[blueman335]

Re: Seymours for a Les Paul Standard (Premium Plus)

After trying a lot of neck pickups in LP's, I've come to like the Pearly Gates neck the most, because it's output is perfect and it's beautifully voiced and not boomy like a 59.

I'd suggest starting with a Custom 5 bridge. The Custom series wind is perfect for swapping magnets, so if for some reason you don't love the C5, you can move in another direction like ceramic, A8, or A2. Sell your stock pickups to recoup half the cost.

+1. C5 and a PGN, that's an excellent pair.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Seymours for a Les Paul Standard (Premium Plus)

But I'd never let that stop me from giving useless unspecific solicited advice....

Well put. Those words have been the guiding light of my professional life.

 

[YellowJacket]

Re: Seymours for a Les Paul Standard (Premium Plus)

Well put. Those words have been the guiding light of my professional life.

There is nothing wrong with spouting personal preference. I am of the opinion that certain pickup combinations work better than others with certain guitars. What I 'really' want is that magic pickup combination that really makes my guitar work. I found it with my backup axe and now I want it for my Les Paul too.

I'm sure you all know that some pickups hate certain guitars. I 'tried' to buy a PRS HFS to make my Godin sound like a PRS Singlecut. What I discovered was that the tone of the Godin was at war with the PRS pickup. It really accentuated the undesirable qualities of the guitar, namely the overly bright treble. When I put in the Alnico II pro neck and the Custom Custom in the bridge, it was a perfect fit. I think the guitar really sounds the best it can. Better than any of the stock instruments I have heard. The P-90 version of the Godin is close though.