SG Hybrid - Cool

T

The Usual

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For context, I started out trying to find the ultimate bridge pup for my '86 SG. I think it's a standard or '61 reissue. It's hard to say, but it has all the features of a '61. The pups in this guitar are unpotted and have a serial number Pat No 2,737,842 on the base plate. They measure around 7.4K each. The neck sounds fantastic but the bridge is too weak and thin. I have tried the CC (too compressed) and the CC/59 hybrid (nice but again too compressed), the 498T A2 sweet but too weak, the 498T A4 good output but thin.

So a couple of days ago I tried messing around with a CC/59 hybrid and my favorite Gibson 498T just to see what would happen if I cross polinated SD and Gibson for this axe. I have done the CC/498 thing before for a LP and it was really cool, but I found it too hot for that particular axe, and undid it. I rememberd this, and decided to try again. After some help from PoorMan getting it together (thanks) I thought I'd start a thead on what I ended up with, because I think I have found something cool.


First the 498T Screw/59 Slug Hybrid - 11.1K

You get the airy thin feel of the Gibson that so many people hate, and the smooth roundness of the 59. Very even sounding with that vintage air that I personally love. This is very nice for a low output vibe. Right now I have an A4 in it, which adds to the airy feel. I had an A2 in it, which was sweet, but I took it out because a) it's going in the other hybrid and b) this was meant for an SG bridge and there isn't enough output there to make an A2 work.

When I get another A2 mag this will go in my LP bridge, and I suspect be the one. I find that you can get away with less output in a LP bridge. Probably due to the pup being farther from the saddle and the makeup of the LP body. Just more beef. In this LP, my favorite ever pup was the AP2. No surprise as this LP has an ebony fretboard.

This pup is a 498T that I think many more people could get behind.


Custom Screw/ 498T Slug Hybrid - 14.4K

Uh, wow, I guess. I want to say "WOW, this is IT!", but those who know me will say, "Talk to you in a week". Yeah, I deserve that, but in this SG, this really feels like it. This just has so many things I love. The air of the Gibson that makes old axes sound, well, old. The voice of the CC, BUT without the compression. This is huge. IME, the SD hybrids have the voicing but they always sound compressed. The custom coils always sound tubby to me. This just balances that out perfectly. And the best part is that I can actually get away with an A2 mag in an SG bridge, and still balance with the neck. This is no easy feat.

The SG bridge needs output to compete with the neck, and to make up for the distance from the saddle, but output always means compression from the coils, or harshness from the magnet. I am not an expert on the technical aspects of winds etc, so I won't guess why this works so well, but it does.

For my needs this is the best bridge pup I've ever played in this SG, maybe in anything. If I may be so cheesy, I think I'll name it the Seymour Gibson bridge model or .... here it comes..... SG Bridge! Sorry.

In summary, I think that both of these are definately worth a go for anyone who has a 498T or any airy Gibson laying around. I have always thought that the SD PAFs are all very nicely voiced and smooth, but to me, they are a little too smooth to get that vintage quality. The Gibsons can do it, but when they do, they tend to be too brittle sounding or thin. This just brings it all together. If you love the SD thing, you may not like it. If you love the Gibson thing, you may not like it. If you are me, you will.
 
Re: SG Hybrid - Cool

I know nobody has shown interest in this thread, but I just have to share.

I played the Custom/498 tonight with the band, and I am pretty impressed. Actually, I am in love with this pickup! This is my favorite SG bridge sound ever.

It sounds good clean, dirty, and under a lot of gain is just sweet. Airy, open, smooth articulate. It's vocal for leads and in no way fatiguing. This thing is perfect. If you're an A5 lover, you could drop one in this thing, and likely drool.

I'll stop now.
 
Re: SG Hybrid - Cool

Its interesting. I just couldn't add anything. Other than . . . its nice when a plan comes together. ;)

Sometimes hybrids can be cool. My favorite neck pup is my Demon/59 hybrid in my Patriot. (Both screw coils.)
 
Re: SG Hybrid - Cool

Thanks for the info.
I found your comments regarding compression to be of interest and have noticed this in several non hybrid SD pups.
I am glad that someone else can hear the "airy " quality of Gibson pups.
It is a subtle quality that many don't hear nor seek.
I place high value on this ability to capture harmonics and reproduce them especially in a semi hollow body.
:cool2:
 
Re: SG Hybrid - Cool

What I find inteteresting, is that Gibson can have the same output in a 498 as say a CC, but still end up with a thin airy sound. Forgetting the magnet, because you can swap them. Before I did this, I asked around this forum and the experts told me that the wire guage of the 498 is 43, and the CC is also 43. They both come in at around 14.4K, yet the coils of these two sound so different. You have to wonder why. I know that physically the Gibson bobbin is wider. I wonder if that does it, or maybe the pattern of winds? I am no expert.


I have found that Gibsons in general have that thin airy feel, but can sound anemic or harsh. A good one, sounds like rock and roll, because, they are what your ears associate classic sounds with.

SD are smoother in general, but have roundness to them. This is just my opinion, I think they suit an A2 magent best, and I haven't found one that I have fallen in love with unless it has an A2 in it. Just needs the air.

Dimarzio's sound like the air has been artifically introduced, and they all sound to me like they have a squirt sound on the pick attach that can not be dialed out.

I have a Kinman bridge in my tele copy, and it rocks. But I remember putting it in and saying, where did the air go? The stock pup squealed and hummed, but was open and airy. The Kinman is the best at doing the noiseless thing, and sounds so close it's scary. But nothing sounds like the real thing.

As my amp tech says, it's all about compromise.

I know I am generalizing based on my experience. Everyone has winners in their line, but I can hear a common tone to manufacturers. Just like a band.
 
Re: SG Hybrid - Cool

The Usual said:
They both come in at around 14.4K, yet the coils of these two sound so different. You have to wonder why. I know that physically the Gibson bobbin is wider. I wonder if that does it, or maybe the pattern of winds? I am no expert.
Click to expand...

The difference isn't any one thing. Everything factors in from wind pattern, pitch, speed, tension, methods, potting material, alloys...heck, even wire varies from batch to batch. A pickup is very much the sum of it's parts.
 
Re: SG Hybrid - Cool

Crazy. It's funny though that the manufacturers have their own sound, across their product line. I guess that would be due to the shared materials then. Something like type of wire, regardless of gauge?

I would have assumed that it was just the wire gauge and pattern that did it. Maybe the shape of bobbin. I never really thought about the non-magnetic materials.

Sounds like these things have as much going on in them as the guitar itself. Maybe more.
 
Re: SG Hybrid - Cool

Another update.

I was having an issue with the grounding of the CC/498 hybrid last night, so while I was working on it, I spent some time playing with magnets again. I can never resist the opportunity to tweak. I tried A5 A2 and A4 back to back, and this time, the A4 was doing it for me. All of them sounded really good though. It's like the A4 double dip in EQ was offsetting the mid hump of the CC in a nice way. I could see how C5 lovers would really like this with an A5 as well. Lots of punch, but clear.

So of course, for kicks, I decided to pop the 498/59 hybrid in the bridge and play around with magnets in it as well. You know where this is going.... Now this is my favorite! Yeah, I got problems, I know.

I didn't think that this had the output I needed at 11K, but honestly, it is perfect. I even have an A2 in it, and it slays. Man, this thing is just like vintage plus. It actually moves the SG bridge into a LP bridge territory, which is kind of what I was after. Somewhere between Angus and Slash, which is a trip. My wife came down while I was messing around and said that it reminded her of the LP.

I have to say, that both of these pups are killer, and really worth a look. It's like they both do the SD thing that their respective coil does, but with that classic mojo. I'd love to try this with more SDs. If anyone wants to get rid of their 498, please donate ;-).
 
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