SG poor sustain
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toneseeker74
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Re: SG poor sustain
The guitar in question is a glossy Special. My faded Special doesn't have this problem.
The guitar in question is a glossy Special. My faded Special doesn't have this problem.
Re: SG poor sustain
Swap out your bridge Seth with an A4 magnet. Easy to do if it looks scary, it is not. This will help. I play Sitar, and on the sympathetic strings, the physics talked about here do not apply. I can't argue why as I am not a student of physics, and I get the point, but if I hit a D on the playing string, the 3rd,5th, and 2 other low D's, and high D,s ring out in sympathy, they are on a small bridge under the huge playing bridge. If I go to 8's, there are too lax and don't ring out as well. Here is the rub. If I go 10's or 11's, which I have tried to get more sympathetic ringing, it does not work. They make a sound, but they sustain clearly less than half as long as the 9's. Go figure. I was sure the 10's would work.
I do agree that seems odd, and the idea that physics would force the string to respond differently, louder and longer, but they just don't. Hit your A string hard and only stop the A from ringing and you will hear sympathetic sound from the low E and D strings. That is what a sitar does, only louder (too long to explain why)
I say 9's or 10's, and THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT- VERY IMPORTANT: My old LP has the screws for the thumbwheels directly INTO the wood. On my SG 61 RI the screws were these fatter ones that screwed into a NEW metal bushing that had been drilled into the body. I took the bridge off and the "New Housing" was loose on the guitar body. It wiggled for gods' sake, so I cleaned the finish off that was all over that metal-took it out (look out for cracks) and put some chopped up maple and rosewood into the new hole that is NOT on any of the earlier and sought after Gibson's. Only the $5 thousand dollar and up Les Pauls' feature the real thumb wheel screw attachment. Then I put the bushing back in, used a little Titebond 2 (my idea) and I needed to tap it into place and it was now very firm and helped the sustain greatly.
Also -on this Stop tail problem. All my Gibsons' touch. As this bridge is replaceable, I just used a small round rat tail file and made room for the string to travel more smoothly and even not touch the back at all, because having the Stop bar all the way down is very important. Wrapping over the top is better than nothing, but having the bar down tight and having the stings hit the bridge at that greater angle will also make a world of difference. I wish I could come to your house and show you, use my parts on yours to prove I am not making this stuff up. Look at a new SG or other new Gibson bridge thumb wheel screw set ups, then look at the older Gibsons or the re-issue $5,000.00 and up thumbwheel set up. They are 2 different beasts.
Steve-seriously
Swap out your bridge Seth with an A4 magnet. Easy to do if it looks scary, it is not. This will help. I play Sitar, and on the sympathetic strings, the physics talked about here do not apply. I can't argue why as I am not a student of physics, and I get the point, but if I hit a D on the playing string, the 3rd,5th, and 2 other low D's, and high D,s ring out in sympathy, they are on a small bridge under the huge playing bridge. If I go to 8's, there are too lax and don't ring out as well. Here is the rub. If I go 10's or 11's, which I have tried to get more sympathetic ringing, it does not work. They make a sound, but they sustain clearly less than half as long as the 9's. Go figure. I was sure the 10's would work.
I do agree that seems odd, and the idea that physics would force the string to respond differently, louder and longer, but they just don't. Hit your A string hard and only stop the A from ringing and you will hear sympathetic sound from the low E and D strings. That is what a sitar does, only louder (too long to explain why)
I say 9's or 10's, and THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT- VERY IMPORTANT: My old LP has the screws for the thumbwheels directly INTO the wood. On my SG 61 RI the screws were these fatter ones that screwed into a NEW metal bushing that had been drilled into the body. I took the bridge off and the "New Housing" was loose on the guitar body. It wiggled for gods' sake, so I cleaned the finish off that was all over that metal-took it out (look out for cracks) and put some chopped up maple and rosewood into the new hole that is NOT on any of the earlier and sought after Gibson's. Only the $5 thousand dollar and up Les Pauls' feature the real thumb wheel screw attachment. Then I put the bushing back in, used a little Titebond 2 (my idea) and I needed to tap it into place and it was now very firm and helped the sustain greatly.
Also -on this Stop tail problem. All my Gibsons' touch. As this bridge is replaceable, I just used a small round rat tail file and made room for the string to travel more smoothly and even not touch the back at all, because having the Stop bar all the way down is very important. Wrapping over the top is better than nothing, but having the bar down tight and having the stings hit the bridge at that greater angle will also make a world of difference. I wish I could come to your house and show you, use my parts on yours to prove I am not making this stuff up. Look at a new SG or other new Gibson bridge thumb wheel screw set ups, then look at the older Gibsons or the re-issue $5,000.00 and up thumbwheel set up. They are 2 different beasts.
Steve-seriously
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Christopher Caruana
New member
Re: SG poor sustain
OH S**T, I was searching old threads, got involved in this, forgot where I was, and just replied. What a F'ing idiot, for all to see.
This is the 2nd time I have done this. I did it over at the Les Paul Forum just 2 days ago. I get lost in a thread, forgot where I am and just responded. Maybe I should delete it. There is good info there, but IT IS A VERY OLD THREAD. If I delete my "response" will the old thread then go back where it came from? I am VERY SORRY guys, I'm closing in on 64 I think, allow my old age as an excuse, truly sorry.
Some guy that stole the REAL steve's password just to make him look bad.
OH S**T, I was searching old threads, got involved in this, forgot where I was, and just replied. What a F'ing idiot, for all to see.
This is the 2nd time I have done this. I did it over at the Les Paul Forum just 2 days ago. I get lost in a thread, forgot where I am and just responded. Maybe I should delete it. There is good info there, but IT IS A VERY OLD THREAD. If I delete my "response" will the old thread then go back where it came from? I am VERY SORRY guys, I'm closing in on 64 I think, allow my old age as an excuse, truly sorry.
Some guy that stole the REAL steve's password just to make him look bad.
Re: SG poor sustain
I cannot understand the obsession against reviving old threads if there is good info to be added. Seems like a generally accepted internet rule which IMHO is far fetched. Personally I found Steve's comments very very interesting, since I am researching natural sustain as well (as an amateur of course).
I cannot understand the obsession against reviving old threads if there is good info to be added. Seems like a generally accepted internet rule which IMHO is far fetched. Personally I found Steve's comments very very interesting, since I am researching natural sustain as well (as an amateur of course).
Re: SG poor sustain
Thanks, greekdude,
One thing about this, is I always hear about neck diving SG's so people with back problems are caught in a catch 22-they want the light weight and all around coolness of an SG, but the neck dive causes them to back off. And adding weight to the body is counter productive, you wind up with a heavy guitar again. A Stratocaster is a perfect example of "moving the center of gravity" I bet if the strap connected like an SG that sucker would dive like a drowning duck. But if you look at a Strat the strap attachment on the upper horn is level with the 13th fret, so a Strat will never dive, I have a chambered basswood Strat, with a maple neck and rosewood board, the body is actually lighter than my SG. But because of the relative strap placement, it is no problem. And let me tell you, that neck came from a Jeff Beck model, and it is heavy as a baseball bat, a louisville slugger. Heavy. I had to take it off, not because of neck dive, but because of overall weight. Use a Squire maple neck now that is about half the weight. No kidding.
sj
Thanks, greekdude,
One thing about this, is I always hear about neck diving SG's so people with back problems are caught in a catch 22-they want the light weight and all around coolness of an SG, but the neck dive causes them to back off. And adding weight to the body is counter productive, you wind up with a heavy guitar again. A Stratocaster is a perfect example of "moving the center of gravity" I bet if the strap connected like an SG that sucker would dive like a drowning duck. But if you look at a Strat the strap attachment on the upper horn is level with the 13th fret, so a Strat will never dive, I have a chambered basswood Strat, with a maple neck and rosewood board, the body is actually lighter than my SG. But because of the relative strap placement, it is no problem. And let me tell you, that neck came from a Jeff Beck model, and it is heavy as a baseball bat, a louisville slugger. Heavy. I had to take it off, not because of neck dive, but because of overall weight. Use a Squire maple neck now that is about half the weight. No kidding.
sj
Chickenwings
Alnico 6/8
Re: SG poor sustain
My Sg sustains for days.
Something aint right and its not the pickups.
Get it set up as well as you can, and if its still not good, sell it.
My Sg sustains for days.
Something aint right and its not the pickups.
Get it set up as well as you can, and if its still not good, sell it.
Re: SG poor sustain
gibson175, +1
When it comes to mahogany - I have seen so many different types of this wood, super rock hard on my Les Paul Custom "68,(the maple is like iron) to my very soft Les Paul Jr. '01 or so. My SG RI, '02 or so is right in the middle, and sustains well. I am very good at setting up my guitars for my own needs, fretboard work, crowning (frets, not giving birth) edge work, straightening the neck, fret level (not in that order of course) and I haven't had a bad one yet. The soft LP Jr. sounds tinnier, thinner, compared to my SG, which sounds louder thicker and better over all frequencies. My LPC "68 sounds even fuller, but not that much brighter, which I find odd, as the maple cap is very thick and very hard. All without being plugged in, of course.
I only use my LP Jr. on stage, as I knew it was a cheaper type of mahogany when I bought it. I got it because it was light for my busted up back, and was so cheap on sale they almost gave it to me. It's plugged in to a powerful Hot Rod Deluxe and I have a great pedal board I have been working on for 45 years, but with tuner I only use about 4-5 pedals, but have tried as many as I could, and am happy with what I have, so getting my LP Jr. to sustain is easy live.
Even my basswood chambered Strat sounds better than my LP Jr. So if it is a matter of cheap wood, that would be a deal breaker. But a good setup can work miracles.
Steve B
gibson175, +1
When it comes to mahogany - I have seen so many different types of this wood, super rock hard on my Les Paul Custom "68,(the maple is like iron) to my very soft Les Paul Jr. '01 or so. My SG RI, '02 or so is right in the middle, and sustains well. I am very good at setting up my guitars for my own needs, fretboard work, crowning (frets, not giving birth) edge work, straightening the neck, fret level (not in that order of course) and I haven't had a bad one yet. The soft LP Jr. sounds tinnier, thinner, compared to my SG, which sounds louder thicker and better over all frequencies. My LPC "68 sounds even fuller, but not that much brighter, which I find odd, as the maple cap is very thick and very hard. All without being plugged in, of course.
I only use my LP Jr. on stage, as I knew it was a cheaper type of mahogany when I bought it. I got it because it was light for my busted up back, and was so cheap on sale they almost gave it to me. It's plugged in to a powerful Hot Rod Deluxe and I have a great pedal board I have been working on for 45 years, but with tuner I only use about 4-5 pedals, but have tried as many as I could, and am happy with what I have, so getting my LP Jr. to sustain is easy live.
Even my basswood chambered Strat sounds better than my LP Jr. So if it is a matter of cheap wood, that would be a deal breaker. But a good setup can work miracles.
Steve B
Re: SG poor sustain
greekdude,
Never thought about drying wood. That would have to happen first - before the parts are together I would imagine. So is there any thing practical to help "dry" an SG after the fact? Leave in a hot area, or leave in a hot area under shade in the summer?
Spitballing here.
SB
greekdude,
Never thought about drying wood. That would have to happen first - before the parts are together I would imagine. So is there any thing practical to help "dry" an SG after the fact? Leave in a hot area, or leave in a hot area under shade in the summer?
Spitballing here.
SB
Securb
One of Jerry's Kids
Re: SG poor sustain
Guitars definitely season. I find the longer I own them the less I have to tweak them. That being said when my SG was new I had to constantly adjust the neck and action the first couple of years. Now that it is 13 years old it seems to have settled in. I don't know of any way of drying out the wood to accelerate the process and I don't think I would try it. Accelerated drying could cause warping. Just be patient and give the guitar little tweaks as needed.
Guitars definitely season. I find the longer I own them the less I have to tweak them. That being said when my SG was new I had to constantly adjust the neck and action the first couple of years. Now that it is 13 years old it seems to have settled in. I don't know of any way of drying out the wood to accelerate the process and I don't think I would try it. Accelerated drying could cause warping. Just be patient and give the guitar little tweaks as needed.
Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: SG poor sustain
Wood needs seasoning...and that is before being used!!
They also quick dry alot of cheap stuff these days, and it will always warp and be of a somewhat questionable quality too.
Wood needs seasoning...and that is before being used!!
They also quick dry alot of cheap stuff these days, and it will always warp and be of a somewhat questionable quality too.
Securb
One of Jerry's Kids
Re: SG poor sustain
looks like this :
But its very heavy. And when we are talking about heavy I dont mean like mahogany. I mean like heavier than water, it sinks in! Also it is very .... oily !! (who wouldn't guess?)
looks like this :
But its very heavy. And when we are talking about heavy I dont mean like mahogany. I mean like heavier than water, it sinks in! Also it is very .... oily !! (who wouldn't guess?)
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Re: SG poor sustain
greekdude,
Hurts my back just looking at it. Is it some kind of spalted Olive wood? Or is spalted wood available on many types of wood, like ash, for example? Quite striking, did you carve the top yourself?
Securb,
Really funny on the Olive Oil joke. Old enough that some members might not get that.
SJB
greekdude,
Hurts my back just looking at it. Is it some kind of spalted Olive wood? Or is spalted wood available on many types of wood, like ash, for example? Quite striking, did you carve the top yourself?
Securb,
Really funny on the Olive Oil joke. Old enough that some members might not get that.
SJB
Re: SG poor sustain
It is just a shop here in Athens selling this. I am *far* from building anything close. I dont know about spalting, most olive wood items look like that. They look very classy in person. About Ash, maple & spalting, etc... those are mostly american woods man, you should know better!
It is just a shop here in Athens selling this. I am *far* from building anything close. I dont know about spalting, most olive wood items look like that. They look very classy in person. About Ash, maple & spalting, etc... those are mostly american woods man, you should know better!
