Shoot out w/Eric Johnson: New Fender American Vintage 56 Strat vs. Old 57 Strat

Re: Shoot out w/Eric Johnson: New Fender American Vintage 56 Strat vs. Old 57 Strat

I don't own a Nocaster any longer but it was a superb guitar. Right up there with my '54 Tele that I've owned a long time now - although I did replace the Nocaster pickups with Antiquiys. I like that electric tone better. Not so bright and crisp.

I wonder of the pickups in my '54 Tele are alnico 5 or 3?

Neck pickups were always alnico 5 and by 54 the bridge pickups were too.


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Re: Shoot out w/Eric Johnson: New Fender American Vintage 56 Strat vs. Old 57 Strat

so young. So naive. It wouldnt even be close. maybe on a clip.If you think that '56 reish' guitar sounds anything even remotely close to how sweet and great a real genuine 1957 Strat sounds , then you are a fool.
You might like to believe maybe one day you can spend 5 thousand and get that tone, but , ha, youre dreamin' dude.

^this is a perfect example of internet hyperbole - that old = better. It honestly amazes that anyone who considers themselves a guitar player would care about BS like this.
 
Re: Shoot out w/Eric Johnson: New Fender American Vintage 56 Strat vs. Old 57 Strat

so young. So naive. It wouldnt even be close. maybe on a clip.If you think that '56 reish' guitar sounds anything even remotely close to how sweet and great a real genuine 1957 Strat sounds , then you are a fool.
You might like to believe maybe one day you can spend 5 thousand and get that tone, but , ha, youre dreamin' dude.

Just out of curiosity, have you ever played a real '57 Strat? Not to brag, but I've played at least a dozen and some of them are quite special while others really aren't. I even remember an occasion around maybe 2007 when I had the chance to A/B several custom shop Strats against a pre-CBS example (seem to recall '63). The vintage Strat was pretty nice, but a '65 relic I tried that same day sounded and played better; and several of the other customers agreed.
 
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Re: Shoot out w/Eric Johnson: New Fender American Vintage 56 Strat vs. Old 57 Strat

I have the opposite magnet setup to the EJ set (A5/A5/A3, neck to bridge). I wanted to try something different (at the time I only knew some winders offered A3 and that the Highway 1s by Fender came with A3 pickups) so I went with a slightly overwound A3 pickup. Basically, a pretty weak magnet with more winds around it for the bridge, and stronger magnets with lighter winds for the neck and middle. The setup worked fine, it's still there. The A3 pickup isn't 'in your face' like some overwound pickups are, and since the other specs on it are rather common it wouldn't suprise me if the magnets are the reason the bridge pickup sounds tame (EQ wise) but loud (output wise), if that makes sense.
 
Re: Shoot out w/Eric Johnson: New Fender American Vintage 56 Strat vs. Old 57 Strat

so young. So naive. It wouldnt even be close. Maybe on a clip.

If you think that '56 reish' guitar sounds anything even remotely close to how sweet and great a real genuine 1957 Strat sounds , then you are a fool.

You might like to believe maybe one day you can spend 5 thousand and get that tone, but , ha, you're dreamin' dude.

The American Vintage 56 can be had for $1000. - 1200. used.

As for the 56 Reissue sounding remotely close to a real 57 Strat, I've owned a real 57 Strat. I'm looking at a picture of me playing it through a plexi Marshall right now. It's from 1969 or 70 and I keep it framed on my desk.

Haven't played the American Vintage 56 though. I just thought the video was interesting and do think they sound similar. Certainly not identical - but similar.

And Eric seems to think so too:



Modern guitars can sound great compared to their 40, 50 and 60 year old counterparts.

When I chose to sell my '63 Strat to catch up on some bills, I compared it to my 2013 Fender EJ Strat with the rosewood fingerboard. After a pickup swat to alnico 5 pickups made exactly like those in my old '63, I found that I liked the new guitar every bit as much as my old '63.
 
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Re: Shoot out w/Eric Johnson: New Fender American Vintage 56 Strat vs. Old 57 Strat

As much as I love the authenticity of the AVRI Fenders, I'm so accustomed to the feel of modern ones that my favorite ones for both vintage tone and modern feel are the Hot Rod 57/62 strats and Hot Rod 52 Tele.

Any Fenders I buy from now on will have to be a cross between vintage and modern, because I hate vintage frets, 7.25" radius, and truss rod adj. in the heel.

I'm obviously not the only one who feels this way, because Fender has been blurring the lines for quite sometime. They put stamped saddles on Am. Std's and flatter radius/med jumbo on some of their vintage styles
 
Re: Shoot out w/Eric Johnson: New Fender American Vintage 56 Strat vs. Old 57 Strat

I'm obviously not the only one who feels this way, because Fender has been blurring the lines for quite sometime. They put stamped saddles on Am. Std's and flatter radius/med jumbo on some of their vintage styles
That's something that made the guitar in my NGD pt2 thread so appealing, 9.5" radius and Medium Jumbo frets. It's much more enjoyable for me to play compared to the equivalent 7.5" radius and vintage frets. It seems like the Eric Johnson models are similar, the tonal additions from the vintage style mixed with a few modern touches to aid playability.
 
Re: Shoot out w/Eric Johnson: New Fender American Vintage 56 Strat vs. Old 57 Strat

I've tried some vintage instruments out. In a blind test they weren't MINDBLOWING. I actually thing VOS or reissue stuff is better,because it's the same ingredients but with better attention to detail because of new technology and a reputation to uphold. Granted aged instruments to sound different compared to a fresh one. But hey, the reissue will last longer and sound that good EVENTUALLY.
 
Re: Shoot out w/Eric Johnson: New Fender American Vintage 56 Strat vs. Old 57 Strat

I have the klein S7 pickups that are supposed to be copied from the EJ strat pickup set, A3, A3, overwound A5, from neck to bridge.

I love the A3 pickups and now use the middle A3 pickup in the bridge spot.

They have a chewiness without being too spongy or soft. Nice mids. They seem to be weak magnets as I can raise the pickups as much as I've ever needed, full strength A5 pickups require me to crank them down and that's a different sound.
Every now an then I ask myself if I'd like more snap, less mids, and a more late 50s early 60s sound, and then I realize I just need a second strat.

I felt like I would like A3 strat pickups after using 3 kinds of Fender A3 singles (though they were tele PUs), the Nocaster, Original Vintage, and HWY1 tele pickups. There's a texture in A3 single coils that just seems to say "early 50's Fender". I'm hooked.
 
Re: Shoot out w/Eric Johnson: New Fender American Vintage 56 Strat vs. Old 57 Strat

This interest me a lot.
Two or three weeks ago, we were spending the whole day in a music store, because my fellow friend was in the market for a new brand Strato.

We were plugged in a Bassman reissue and, we checked the best stratos under 2500 EUR, including some relics, hot rods, ash, etc.
BY FAR, the best sounding guitar was the Eric Johnson model (but was rated around 2200 EUR).

My friend went for a American Deluxe (around 1500 EUR), because he focused first on what matters: ergonomics.
We've already planned to load such an axe with a set of David Allen's Dovers.

Well, we went back to the store last week and... the American Deluxe with David Allen Dovers sounded a couple of steps better than the EJ model!!!.
The American Deluxe has a lot of interesting features: compound radius, staggered locking keys, deluxe tremolo (blade pivoting on to posts), etc.
With that Dovers, it was just the perfect Strato.

More on this subject here:
The strato selection day:
http://hermeticoguitar.blogspot.com.es/2014/03/auvisa-day-on-guitarists-heaven.html

The coming back to check results:
http://hermeticoguitar.blogspot.com.es/2014/03/strat-fighter-fenders-eric-johnson.html
 
Re: Shoot out w/Eric Johnson: New Fender American Vintage 56 Strat vs. Old 57 Strat

Didn't EJ replaced the bridge pickup of his vintage brown burst strat with a SD antiquity anyway?
 
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Re: Shoot out w/Eric Johnson: New Fender American Vintage 56 Strat vs. Old 57 Strat

Just out of curiosity, have you ever played a real '57 Strat? Not to brag, but I've played at least a dozen and some of them are quite special while others really aren't. I even remember an occasion around maybe 2007 when I had the chance to A/B several custom shop Strats against a pre-CBS example (seem to recall '63). The vintage Strat was pretty nice, but a '65 relic I tried that same day sounded and played better; and several of the other customers agreed.

Yeah. First off, contrary to popular myth here, there is no such thing as a 'dud' Pre-CBs Strat, e-freakin -specially a '57..Granted, some may have a better feel, and playability, becasue they have been played more and are "broken in"...hence a more accessible tone, but thats about the extent of it.
Now, about the 7.25 radius. You cannot compare the playability /feel of 7.25 radius old world master luthier crafted genuine vintage Fender 1957 Strayocaster to a modern 7.5. The old 57 will be the best guitar you ever played in your life ,because its similar to an old Stradavarios violin in craftsmanship-it cannot be duplicated- the mold is broken. Now, this applies unless you want a humbucker and a Floyd Rose with a 16" radius, at which point it ceases to be within the scope of discussion here.
Some people want so bad to believe they can achieve the tone of an old Strat for workmans wages. Thats why people here try and upgrade their guitars and downgrade a real vintage Strat. Its NOT going to happen.Give it up.respect tradition.
 
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Re: Shoot out w/Eric Johnson: New Fender American Vintage 56 Strat vs. Old 57 Strat

Fenders were built by unskilled labor that worked for minimal wages. Leo used the cheapest parts and wood he could find, and that is the reality of a 1950's Fender.

 
Re: Shoot out w/Eric Johnson: New Fender American Vintage 56 Strat vs. Old 57 Strat

Fenders were built by unskilled labor that worked for minimal wages. Leo used the cheapest parts and wood he could find, and that is the reality of a 1950's Fender.


Like I said;

Some people want so bad to believe they can achieve the tone of an old Strat for workmans wages. Thats why people here try and upgrade their guitars and downgrade a real vintage Strat. Its NOT going to happen.Give it up.respect tradition
Yeah Aryton, Abigail Ibarra was real "unskilled".So were all those master woodworkers in your video..using old growth premium wood.."cheapest parts"..teh fck??..you don't have a clue.Trust me...your Strats are crap compared to a vintage Strat..you don't want to accept that do you?
 
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Re: Shoot out w/Eric Johnson: New Fender American Vintage 56 Strat vs. Old 57 Strat

Ok Jerry, believe what you want. :rolleyes:
 
Re: Shoot out w/Eric Johnson: New Fender American Vintage 56 Strat vs. Old 57 Strat

Ok Jerry, believe what you want. :rolleyes:

Its all good. Its opinions based on fact and the free exchange of ideas. If I'm wrong, at least we can argue like civilized adults.
 
Re: Shoot out w/Eric Johnson: New Fender American Vintage 56 Strat vs. Old 57 Strat

I don't know that those folks building Fenders were un-skilled. I never thought of them that way.

Even if they started off being good with their hands but lacking in guitar building experience, I would imagine they were pretty darned skilled after being at Fender for a while.

They sure turned out some awfully nice guitars!
 
Re: Shoot out w/Eric Johnson: New Fender American Vintage 56 Strat vs. Old 57 Strat

I bought a used 1960 Strat back in 1973, and kept it until 1990, having to sell it after my divorce. That was a great guitar, though it had been played hard and refinished when I bought it. It didn't work well for me when I was doing my solo act back then, but whenever I would play with a band it was my go-to guitar. Really hated to sell it.

So, a couple of years after my divorce, I went looking for a Strat; not a lot of money in my pocket. I was trying to find another pre-CBS guitar, but started looking at the '62 American Vintage model. These had been out for a few years and felt pretty close to the '60 I'd owned. I was in a store that had one, talking to the guy and he pulls down a guitar and says, "Try this."

That guitar was a G&L Legacy. Now, I knew about G&L from the beginning, the company Leo founded after Music Man folded. I fell in love with the Music Man Sabre II when they came out, and that was the guitar that I used for my solo act. Just so versatile, with the active tone controls and the built-in preamp. I think I bought my first one in late '78 or early '79. In 1985, after Music Man had folded, I was in SoCal and found a luthier who had bought Music Man parts at auction, and he assembled a Sabre II for me. I later had luthier Mike Lull in Bellevue, Washington, add a third pickup (a Sabre bridge pickup) to that guitar to make it more Strat-like. I've always thought that the Sabre was one of Leo's best designs, even though it didn't do well in the market. But, I was playing with a band again, and felt like I need a guitar with a vibrato. Enter the Legacy...

The original Strat design has some, well...call them idiosyncrasies. The Klusons aren't the best tuners, and on my old Strat they were marginal at best. The truss rod is difficult to adjust. The pickups are weak, and there's that damn sub-harmonic on the low E-string. There's no tone control for the bridge pickup. The bridge pieces splay all over the place, and the "synchronized tremolo" isn't always synchronized. And bending notes on that small-radius board with the small frets...not my favorite thing to do. None of this should come as a surprise to any modern player--nor to Fender, as they now build 4,367 versions of the Stratocaster addressing each of these issues in some form or another. And of course vintage replicas for those "masochists" (LOL!) who like dealing with these "idiosyncrasies"...and they will even relic them for you!

So when John put that Legacy in my hands, it took about two minutes to discover that each of those issues I had with a vintage Strat had been fixed. Better pickups, with no E-flat warble; better tuners; global tone controls; flatter radius and bigger frets made bending a breeze. The truss rod was accessible with the neck on the guitar, and a neck tilt adjustment that actually WORKED meant no more shims. The bridge was obviously made of better materials and went up and down and returned to pitch--every time. The sunburst was perfect. I bought it on the spot.

And I have never looked back.

Oh sure, I'd love to have the 1960 Strat back, if for no other reason than to fatten up my back account. But the guitar I'm going to play...is the Legacy. I've bought several of them over the last 20 years, and hung on to every one. I've also acquired a few of the Comanche, S-500 and Legacy Special models--same platform, just different pickups. I have ONE Legacy with a set of Antiquity Texas Hots, and other than that, I have not done a single mod on any of these guitars. For me, they have made the right mods to the original Strat design, yet they kept the vintage flavor. The build-quality is top-notch, and the guitars are one of the best values in the marketplace. I'd have to spend a heck of a lot more on a Fender than what I've paid for any of my G&Ls. And I don't even own a Fender-branded guitar any more.

I know that these guitars aren't for everyone. I was talking to a guy at a store the other day; he wasn't familiar with G&L and I brought one of mine into show him. He seemed to really like the guitar, but when I asked him to critique it, the only two complaints he could come up with were: he didn't like the "tit" on the headstock, and it didn't say "Fender", and therefore he wouldn't buy one. (So much for an open mind...and good marketing, I guess.)

For me, it is all about the fine line between vintage and modern. I want these modern features of my G&Ls, but I want build quality as good as the old Fenders. I can certainly applaud Fender's efforts to re-create their "Golden Era" instruments of the '50s and '60s, but the G&L gives me that blend of vintage and modern...the right mods without destroying the vintage flavor, and superb build quality at a reasonable price.

I'm sure they've done a great job with the new '56, and I'm pretty sure the guys that like the vintage instruments will love it.

But I'm comfortable saying that it's not for me. I'm happy with my ace and king--I've already got a winning hand.

Bill
 
Re: Shoot out w/Eric Johnson: New Fender American Vintage 56 Strat vs. Old 57 Strat

I have a KWS strat which toes the line between modern and vintage. It is based on Kennys 61 or whatever it is. Body shape, has tge aluminum pickguard plate , avri bridge w/ graphtec saddles, his own spec pups, and a neck with a serious baseball bat profile (nut is like an am std, 12thfret is over an inch), and it has jumbo frets and a 12" radius. The big frets are great but even though I am a gibson guy, the 12" radius drives me nuts on that guitar. Probably because it sits on the body differently, has no neck angle, and thus puts my fretting hand and arm in different positions. I much prefer a 7.25 radius when it comes to Fenders, but I do like the bigger fretwire than vintage. My RW50s tele had 6105s and 7.25 radius and was perfect.

Great thing is, its easy to build a fender type instrument to your exact specs. Vintage, modern, or any degree of inbetween.
 
Re: Shoot out w/Eric Johnson: New Fender American Vintage 56 Strat vs. Old 57 Strat

The "New Fender American Vintage 56 Strat" sounds a lot brighter. Supposing the pickup wire is the same gauge, same insulator, scatter wound and to the same resistance, since these are things that are easy to measure and reproduce and which don't change over time, I'm going to blame it on the magnets. I bet the reissue has a stronger pull than the guitar EJ is playing.
 
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