Should all grounds be to the same physical point?

T

Top-L

Well-known member
Rewiring a guitar with a new Push/Pull. Everything has a ground that goes to the cable ground.

When wiring it, I try to co-locate all the ground cables, for instance they all connect together at the same point on top of the volume pot. But technically, this shouldn't be necessary (I think).

Obviously its difficult to solder additional cables onto one that is already there because it will pull off.

Does it even matter beyond a clean install? Is there a noise advantage having them all together?
 
I have (when I was worried about overheating a pot) ran a single wire to the back of the pot
and then tinned a ring lug on the other end of the wire
landed all the grounds to that ring lug

as long as they all eventually end on the out bound jack terminal it will work

there is a small chance of creating a small antenna with a loop of wire grounds
but those chances are very small
 
I've done wiring where I didn't use the back of the pots as ground at all. I've done it where all grounds went to the jack directly, and I've done a "star" ground where you just use a washer as a common ground point and then wire that to the jack. It doesn't change the signal or the sound at all. You just need every ground to have a solid path to the ground on the jack. Whatever gets that done is fine.
 
You can run the grounds ANY way you like...it won't make any difference at all!. So do it the most convenient way. I don't like to run all the grounds to one point because that creates a lot of heat at that one point (if you're not careful you can kill a pot).
 
GuitarDoc said:
You can run the grounds ANY way you like...it won't make any difference at all!. So do it the most convenient way. I don't like to run all the grounds to one point because that creates a lot of heat at that one point (if you're not careful you can kill a pot).
Click to expand...

Thats what i was thinking
 
Nope, doesn't matter at all in a guitar. Just make sure they're all electrically connected to ground and you'll be fine. Electrons just look for a path, they don't care if you make 'em a superhighway or a bunch of back lanes.
 
Okay, devil's advocate....

For the most part I agree with everything here.. I occasionally ground on a washer, as mentioned, if there's little room.

However I've also understood that multiple ground paths are bad, so you can't just ground anyway that you can imagine .

Way way way back, when I was just learning, somebody renforced that you want to make sure you don't create a ground loop going from pot to pot to pot to pot in a circle.

Obviously this is overkill, but I guess the thinking is that multiple ground paths allow some electrons to follow a longer or shorter route and maybe that messes with phase?

Really I have no idea. I'm just interested in the input from guys who actually understand the electronics behind modifications.
 
zionstrat said:
Okay, devil's advocate....

For the most part I agree with everything here.. I occasionally ground on a washer, as mentioned, if there's little room.

However I've also understood that multiple ground paths are bad, so you can't just ground anyway that you can imagine .

Way way way back, when I was just learning, somebody renforced that you want to make sure you don't create a ground loop going from pot to pot to pot to pot in a circle.

Obviously this is overkill, but I guess the thinking is that multiple ground paths allow some electrons to follow a longer or shorter route and maybe that messes with phase?

Really I have no idea. I'm just interested in the input from guys who actually understand the electronics behind modifications.
Click to expand...

I heard something similar, which is why I asked.
 
Multiple ground points in a guitar are fine, as long as they are all tested and connected. It also looks a lot neater and is easier to work on.
 
zionstrat said:
Okay, devil's advocate....

For the most part I agree with everything here.. I occasionally ground on a washer, as mentioned, if there's little room.

However I've also understood that multiple ground paths are bad, so you can't just ground anyway that you can imagine .

Way way way back, when I was just learning, somebody renforced that you want to make sure you don't create a ground loop going from pot to pot to pot to pot in a circle.

Obviously this is overkill, but I guess the thinking is that multiple ground paths allow some electrons to follow a longer or shorter route and maybe that messes with phase?

Really I have no idea. I'm just interested in the input from guys who actually understand the electronics behind modifications.
Click to expand...

Yes, there have been some who have mentioned ground loops, but they were uninformed. Ground loops don't exist in guitar circuitry with such tiny currents.
Plus there is absolutely NO affect on phase.

So ease your mind and just make sure everything is grounded...the easiest way possible is just fine.
 
Electricity takes the shortest path to ground

But that path can create an antenna to send
wait for it
.............

Noise......


Back into the circuit

post number 2

Single coil Pick-ups are grounded on one end
That loop or coil of wire picks up 60 cycle hum

If you ceate a large loop of wire in the wiring cavity

It will also pick up noise
 
Last edited:
ehdwuld said:
Electricity takes the shortest path to ground

But that path can create an antenna to send
wait for it
.............

Noise......


Back into the circuit

post number 2

Single coil Pick-ups are grounded on one end
That loop or coil of wire picks up 60 cycle hum

If you ceate a large loop of wire in the wiring cavity

It will also pick up noise
Click to expand...

Keep them insulated and to the shortest route to a ground.
 
Let me set the record straight on ground loops. The term "loop" is slightly misleading if you are just beginning to understand what one is. Especially when people say a ground loop is "multiple paths to ground".

A ground loop in practice commonly occurs when you are designing a circuit in which two components must be sent to ground, but one is accidentally sent to somewhere else.

Here's a common example. Let's say you're designing an amplifier. The intuitive way to do it would be having a 9v positive voltage and setting the grounds to 0v. All 9v of power must drop in potential to 0v. Kirchoffs Voltage Law. But let's say your power supply your using doesn't have a 9v positive and 0v ground, let's say it has a 4.5v positive and -4.5v negative. That -4.5v becomes your relative ground. If you don't know this, you can design your amplifier off the 9v/0v setup and it will work fine. You still get 9v of power drop from 4.5v to -4.5v, but if you add the amplifier to a larger circuit and try to ground it at 0v, you only have 4.5v of voltage drop.

In summary, you accidentally sent your ground wire to 0v, when it actually needed to be grounded to -4.5v

This is called a ground loop. They cannot exist in passive guitar circuits because there is no way in a passive circuit to have ground be anywhere other than 0v.
 
There is another type of ground loop that will commonly exist, but it's too much trouble to describe here and will just create confusion if I try to explain it. It happens if you use one circuit as a negative reference voltage for a second one, and the second one uses the first as a negative reference voltage.
 
ehdwuld said:
Electricity takes the shortest path to ground

But that path can create an antenna to send
wait for it
.............

Noise......


Back into the circuit

post number 2

Single coil Pick-ups are grounded on one end
That loop or coil of wire picks up 60 cycle hum

If you ceate a large loop of wire in the wiring cavity

It will also pick up noise
Click to expand...

I've wired over 50 guitars with "loops" of grounds, over two dozen even with P-90 pups (notorious for picking up noise) and none of them acted as you say, like an antenna for 60 cycle hum.
 
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