SICK SICK SICK of El84s

[JeffB]

If you have read some of my posts on EL84s over the years, you know it's simply a necessary evil for me...most lower watt crunchy marshall type amps have them, and I hate them. I don't like their breakup, their compression, their chime, and their thin and bright nature when pre-amp gain is scarce. My last 3 amps have all used El84s. I love to hear other folks use them, hear them on albums, but ME, in the room plugged into an EL84 amp......ick...they drive me nuts. I have spent way too much money trying to band-aid the problem....speakers, tubes, pedals, strings, pickups...hell..guitars even.

Anyhoo, Eff that Stuff....DSL40 incoming...any reccos on modern EL34s?

 

[Securb]

Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s

Have you tried a 6L6 amp like a Fender?

 

[JeffB]

Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s

Have you tried a 6L6 amp like a Fender?

Oh yeah, i have had several Fenders and Mesas over the years, but Marshalls , HiWatts, variations..those are my thing.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s

The DSL40 is sweet. I almost got one when I got my OR15. Had a DSL50 head years ago. It was too loud for how I was not getting to take it out of the apartment often enough, i didn't give up the goods until at least 3 or 4 and that was way too damn loud but on 5 it was freaking glorious. I love the immediate power you can feel when you hit it hard. The OR15 has been about as good as I could hope for in a 15W el84 amp but yeah... el84s kinda suck for some things.

When I had a DSL though I had put the chinese el34-b in there. sounded really balanced and present, little less mids than the typical marshall sound, and they were cheap and reliable. They still had that midrange cut when pushed. The amp came with some svetlana tubes which had a creamy midrange emphasis that seems to go perfectly with the dsl sound but I wanted to experiment when it was time to change. The good ones are supposed to be "winged C" but they are now quite expensive. If it were me in your shoes I'd certainly start with the svetlanas as a starting point.

btw effing congratulations man. That dsl40 is awesome. The green channel alone is worth the price of admission I think.

 

[ErikH]

Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s

Marshalls + EL34 = JJ. Preamp too.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s

This is why the Orange Rocker 30 stays on my radar... 30w with EL34s. Plexistyle clean channel, 800style gain channel. I'll scoop one up some day...

 

[speed2dirt]

Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s

New or old DSL40? The old DSL40C's were loaded with a quartet of EL84s, I believe. I will say, the cleans were amazing for a Marshall with those EL84s. Personally, I love how EL84s react. I never understood the hate.

 

[regan]

Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s

If you have read some of my posts on EL84s over the years, you know it's simply a necessary evil for me...most lower watt crunchy marshall type amps have them, and I hate them. I don't like their breakup, their compression, their chime, and their thin and bright nature when pre-amp gain is scarce. My last 3 amps have all used El84s. I love to hear other folks use them, hear them on albums, but ME, in the room plugged into an EL84 amp......ick...they drive me nuts. I have spent way too much money trying to band-aid the problem....speakers, tubes, pedals, strings, pickups...hell..guitars even.

Anyhoo, Eff that Stuff....DSL40 incoming...any reccos on modern EL34s?

https://marshallamps.com/products/amplifiers/dsl-series/dsl15c/

Being nonplussed with marshalls I haven't tried one myself but this has a 6v6 power amp.

My next amp will hopefully be a 5e3 so perhaps this marshall will have more of that flavour

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s

I like EL-84's for a pushed clean roots rock sound like Vox or Matchless, and that's about it. Well, my Tiny Terror is cool too.

But, I really wish all the low wattage highgain style heads would come with 1 E-34L, interchangeable with other big bottle tubes.

I'll tell ya, out of all the tube amps I own, I'm really starting to love my 86 Marshall 2204. It contains just about all the Marshall tones, just by tweaking 6 knobs and utilizing either input. That thing is the sound of rock, and it takes pedals better than just about anything.

Scrap all the other amps and find a good 70's or 80's 2204. It's got the Marshall tones you hear in your head.
Use your guitar's volume to sweeten it, and use an OD pedal to make it scream.

 

[JeffB]

Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s

Its a new one. Sweetwater special with g12m creamback, but I will run it into my cab.

I generally run my or15 3/4 to full up with 100db h30s , so I figure the dsl on 4 to 5 on the master wont be horrendous with 96db g12ms (The h30s are a bandaid for the el84s, so I will switch the cab back over to the 12ms) If need be I will grab a rockcrusher to take the edge off.

The dsl15 would be perfect, except it sounds like crap compared to the 5 and the 40. The classic channel barely crunches, and there is no crunch mode, and the red channel is a fizzy buzzy mess and has way too much unuseable gain. They really screwed that amp up. The 5 sounds ok on the green....and great on the red, but I live on the types of tone produced on the green channel and the 5 doesn't push the bigger speakers enough for me...same issue as I have with my class5.

I had a 800 2204 for a time BITD (and a 70s jmp mv 2204 2x12, the jmp sounded better to my ears, but...) , until I stupidly traded it on a 900 DR.

Budget is an issue- otherwise I would just grab a rockcrusher and a 1987 clone. The dsl40 and a rockcrusher I can swing,as it will cost me less than a 1987/2204 would and I can pay it off over time. I dont ever fork out thousands up front anymore...too many life issues...kids...wife...ex-wife...house...job.Been there, had to sell my new gear when some big bill came up

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s

Hey man, it's all good. I am in love with EL84's but I know a lot of people who hate them. In the past I have really loved KT77's too but not everybody gets along with those either. I heard some clips you posted after one of your recent NAD and you sounded great with EL84's too but at the end of the day EL84's are a picky outfit.

 

[Surgeon]

Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s

The rocker 30 came to mind as well. I really liked mine, I only sold it 'cause it was redundant with my Thunderverb (the TV can be made to sound very close to the R30 for the tones I wanted out of it). A cool, low-watt amp that can be made to be switched between plenty of bottles with slights tweaks would be the AX84, either PI or Hi Octane. Of course, those are DIY so...

 

[Diego]

Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s

How do they compare to 6V6s?
I know they're not a direct replacement (9-pin) but I'm still curious.

 

[Van Noord]

Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s

 

[guitarSQUIRELL]

Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s

I just replace the EL84s and 12AX7s in my VOX and I've never heard that amp be so clear or dirty when cranked. Almost sounds like the JB argument lol. Personal preference on the EL84s as well lol.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s

Ive been using a marshall JTM style thing with EL34s and a master volume control for the last 12 months. The maker tells me it puts out only 25 watts of clean. Im sure it pumps out a lot more than that when the power tubes are cooking.
Anyways, to try to cut a long story short, I have been A/Bing it with a 5e3 the last few days and what ive found out is this....the low wattage amp (the 5e3) sound better when it is wound up a bit, but that means it is still very loud. Too loud for a lot of club venues. Whereas the EL34 based amp with the master volume can get the same nice squish by cranking up the preamp, and then taming the output by using the master volume. The other nice thing is that i can get the squish at the right volume with the added bonus of a nice solid low end that smaller power tubes just cannot provide. Of course, there is always the option of opening the power section up too and getting a seriously righteous tone where any note can feed back but of course that is pretty loud. However - even at low volumes the master volume amp sounds muche better to me than the non master/low wattage amp.
So in a perfect world i reckon you would be happy with something akin to the amps you have been using, but with bigger bottles in the power section...something like el34s. 6ca7s or 6l6s but then also to have a master volume control so you can get a nice response at whatever volume you need.

But you have bought a DSL. They are pretty cool modern sounding rock amps in their own right and they have a master as well as channel switching and all that modern stuff. I like jjs, EH or tung sols or even shuguangs as el34s. The reality is that you are unlikely to be pushing any of them to meltdown so as long as you have the amp biased nicely they will all sound great.
The other alternative to make a noticeable difference (which you may or may not be looking for) is to try a set of 6ca7's. These will really add some heft and punch to the low end when you are at higher volumes and a little more headroom (that is if you are actually running out of power tube headroom with regular el34s - which is pretty damn loud). EH make good ones. I have not tried any other brands of 6ca7s. Hope some of this is useful.

 

[allbutromeo]

Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s

Another "Marshall" type to check out is the Splawn Super Sport. 22w 6V6 power, a bit on the pricey side though.

As far as Modern production El34s, I've hade really good luck with Tung-Sol EL34B's, Mullards, and Electro-Harmonix 6CA7s

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s

After years of using 6L6 amps, EL84s were difficult to adapt to. I finally got the hang of it, and I love my Mesa Maverick and DC-3, though those are two very different amps. For some gigs, they can be perfect.

Bill

 

[JeffB]

Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s

Certainly I don't fault others for liking el84s. I thought I was pretty clear in my OP, that it is a ME issue. After 5 years of fighting 3 different amps, I need to get back to my roots, so to speak

FedEx says it is OFD....MEWHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[JeffB]

Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s

How do they compare to 6V6s?
I know they're not a direct replacement (9-pin) but I'm still curious.

...they are more narrow and focused than a 6v6. They have a glassy, chimey top end and less bass. When really pushed they get super compressed in the midrange, and a broken glass grindy type of thing on the top end. They sound smaller than 6v6s and more "wet" . EL84s have little guy syndrome...trying to sound bigger than they are and IMO, they fall apart when they try too hard .They are kind of complete opposites, other than general level of power handling.

As mentioned, the OR15 is about as good as it gets for an el84 classic/ hard rock amp. I tried a friedman pt20 last week, and its more Marshally than the Orange but the el84s still annoyed me. They just dont give up the goods for me.