Side note on the side effects of UOA5 in a PG1N…

[freefrog]

Interesting to see how a RC UOA5 gives not only different dynamics and EQing to the PG1N in itself but also a much more detailed and alive sound once combined with the bridge PU (P.A.F. clone with vintage RC A5 in this case).

There’s a comb filtering effect of the harmonics reminding almost an OOP tone, although both pickups are actually in phase…

This complexity was not there with the other mags tried successively in the PG1N: stock A2, short sintered A2 bar, long vintage RC A5…

I think it’s due to the distinctive character of UOA5: even if this alloy doesn’t seem to boost the output level of pickups like A5 does, our lab Teslameter typically measures a very strong magnetic field on it once it's normally charged. Stronger than on a regular A5, even if the difference of output suggests the contrary when both are tried in a same PU.

This powerful flux probably interacts with the bridge pickup, boosting the harmonics according to the logics explained here :

https://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/7998/tonal-effect-pickup-height

Anyway, a normally charged UOA5 might be something to try in a neck HB, for those who like a bright and complex sounding mid position on Gibson guitars with vintage style PU's…

 

[Chistopher]

Interesting. I made a pickup purely just to experiment that was a Super Distortion clone with a quadruple thick neodymium magnet. I didn't test to see if it affected the neck pickup though, I only ever put it in a LP Jr.

I may have to dig it back up though.

 

[freefrog]

FWIW, the triple ceramic X2N that I've tried temporarily in my Fernandes Revolver Pro was not only way louder than the "sustainer" used as a neck pickup but it made it... darker sounding, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't only a question of contrast. Once the stock bridge VH401 humbucker back in the guitar, both PU's were matched again volume wise and tonally, albeit the VH401 is clearly brighter than the X2N.
I'll also have to dig further in my frequency response screenshots to see if it appears clearly in what I've archived without really watching it... <:0)

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Interesting. I made a pickup purely just to experiment that was a Super Distortion clone with a quadruple thick neodymium magnet. I didn't test to see if it affected the neck pickup though, I only ever put it in a LP Jr.

I may have to dig it back up though.

Quadruple thick neo? Man, you could probably stick that Junior to your refrigerator door!
Kidding, of course. But that's a helluva strong magnet for a humbucker.

 

[Chistopher]

I forgot where I got it from (I think it was on here actually) but apparently it started it's life as part of some sort of medical machinery.

 

[nienturi]

Interesting to see how a RC UOA5 gives not only different dynamics and EQing to the PG1N in itself but also a much more detailed and alive sound once combined with the bridge PU (P.A.F. clone with vintage RC A5 in this case).

There’s a comb filtering effect of the harmonics reminding almost an OOP tone, although both pickups are actually in phase…

This complexity was not there with the other mags tried successively in the PG1N: stock A2, short sintered A2 bar, long vintage RC A5…

I think it’s due to the distinctive character of UOA5: even if this alloy doesn’t seem to boost the output level of pickups like A5 does, our lab Teslameter typically measures a very strong magnetic field on it once it's normally charged. Stronger than on a regular A5, even if the difference of output suggests the contrary when both are tried in a same PU.

This powerful flux probably interacts with the bridge pickup, boosting the harmonics according to the logics explained here :

https://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/7998/tonal-effect-pickup-height

Anyway, a normally charged UOA5 might be something to try in a neck HB, for those who like a bright and complex sounding mid position on Gibson guitars with vintage style PU's…

Do you think the flux on the bridge pickup may alter the neck pickups individual tone not only the 2nd position? I'm asking because, as a coincidence, i have swapped the bridge pickup of one of my guitars from dimarzio breed to dimarzio virtual hot paf. Neck pickup was paf pro and while every other variants are same, even the strings, pickup up heighs, bridge, same amp tone etc i have felt the individual neck tone slightly altered. When breed was on the bridge, paf pro sounded little bit brighter and tighter. Untill now, i thought its all relative and blamed myself

 

[freefrog]

I think the experiment evoked in my first post gives solid reasons to consider magnetic fields as interactive in a guitar with several pickups... I've often disagreed with the author of these tests on guitarnutz 'cause I was finding his approach reductionist, dogmatic and biased... but in THIS case, the Genius of science seems to have inspired him IMHO: brilliant example of how to think "out of the box" and well done demonstration.

I won't claim it's always that perceptible: otherwise it would have been documented for a long time, I suppose. But when asymetric / dissimilar mag fields are involved, it can apparently shape the tone beyond expectations (as confirmed by Frank Falbo in his contribution to the topic aforementioned, BTW).

For instance, since my previous reply above, I've compared the frequency response of the "sustainer" used as a neck pickup in my Fernandes Pro when it was played next to the stock VH401 bridge humbucker (with one bar mag apparently made of AlNiCo) VS the X2N (with its 3 ceramic 8 double thick mags): looks like the extremely strong flux of the DiMarzio was somehow "contaminating" the strings, making transitively the sustainer more sensitive to high harmonics but also to fundamental notes, for a stronger bassrange explaining why I've found this neck PU darker next to the X2N...

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Do you think the flux on the bridge pickup may alter the neck pickups individual tone not only the 2nd position? I'm asking because, as a coincidence, i have swapped the bridge pickup of one of my guitars from dimarzio breed to dimarzio virtual hot paf. Neck pickup was paf pro and while every other variants are same, even the strings, pickup up heighs, bridge, same amp tone etc i have felt the individual neck tone slightly altered. When breed was on the bridge, paf pro sounded little bit brighter and tighter. Untill now, i thought its all relative and blamed myself

I'm not qualified to comment on possible flux interference between the two pickups.
But it's also true that the Breed is muscular & extremely full sounding while the VHPAF is not particularly loud and rather bright.

Magnetic interactions aside, I'd expect the neck to sound brighter by contrast with the Breed than with a VHPAF.

I have the VPAF/VHPAF set in a LP Custom and I like them there. Also a fan of the Breed neck as a medium output bridge pickup.
Got the Breed bridge for one of my superStrats - pretty beefy sounding pickup. IMO it might be too huge for me in a 24¾" scale guitar.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

I think the experiment evoked in my first post gives solid reasons to consider magnetic fields as interactive in a guitar with several pickups... I've often disagreed with the author of these tests on guitarnutz 'cause I was finding his approach reductionist, dogmatic and biased... but in THIS case, the Genius of science seems to have inspired him IMHO: brilliant example of how to think "out of the box" and well done demonstration.

I won't claim it's always that perceptible: otherwise it would have been documented for a long time, I suppose. But when asymetric / dissimilar mag fields are involved, it can apparently shape the tone beyond expectations (as confirmed by Frank Falbo in his contribution to the topic aforementioned, BTW).

For instance, since my previous reply above, I've compared the frequency response of the "sustainer" used as a neck pickup in my Fernandes Pro when it was played next to the stock VH401 bridge humbucker (with one bar mag apparently made of AlNiCo) VS the X2N (with its 3 ceramic 8 double thick mags): looks like the extremely strong flux of the DiMarzio was somehow "contaminating" the strings, making transitively the sustainer more sensitive to high harmonics but also to fundamental notes, for a stronger bassrange explaining why I've found this neck PU darker next to the X2N...

Interesting to consider magnetic overlap. I think magnetic flux travels relatively undiminished through steel, right?
So strings are being magnetized not just in the narrow window that each coil is sensing, but along a wider section.
I think it very well might be mostly about overall field strength in the string rather than interaction between two localized fields.
It's probably a more complex interaction but this is all new to me and fun to think about.

Musing further - what about a guitar with neodymium saddles to magnetize the entire length of each string?
Its pickups could be simple coils without magnets of their own.
If that were practical, I'm sure somebody would've done it already.

 

[freefrog]

I remember some discussion(s) evoking the possibility to magnetize the strings instead of using magnets but I don't recall on which forum nor which were the conclusions...

One thing is sure: theoricians from Seth Lover to Scott Lawing insisted on the idea that strings get magnetized by pickups.

BTW, there's an experiment on YT, where the tester effectively magnetizes his strings then notices a difference in harmonics... but he seems to attribute that to his own playing.

https://youtu.be/syd2fug9a-k

For the moment, my own humble interpretation tends mainly to agree with what has been said on guitarnutz: magnetism of pickups influences locally how strings vibrate (with stratitis in extreme cases). This change "by spots" in their vibration shapes the harmonics differently than if the strings are free of any magnetic attraction on their whole length...

I also think that transducers "feed back" the strings exciting them, especially when they are humbuckers and/or if their inductance is not too low. That's what happens IMHO with a P.A.F. or good replica: a note is plucked on the wound strings, it seems to die then it comes back, sometimes louder than the initial short sustain (regardless of the volume of the amp but it's more obvious with OD). Effect of "inductive inertia", IMHO and so to speak... As if the pickup was to some extent its own passive sustainer circuit.