Silencer P-90

[Guest]

I’m curious why only ceramic magnets in these…

Ceramics are usually the preferred go to magnets in P90's, at least from what I understand. It's about the construction of the P90, the way ceramics work with the structure gives a bit more sustain and attack. Additionally, they are more warm and dynamic than say, A2, A3 or A5 magnets and far more dynamic. I have a few ceramic p90 sets so I have seen (or heard) it for myself. I also have p90 sets that utilize Alnico magnets and filtertron construction in the size of p90, that which only one brand has ever done and only for a few years at that.

BUT what do I know, I am a "noob" at all things pickups

 

[beaubrummels]

Original Gibson P-90s used the same Alnico magnets as used in PAFs, with one exception (around '52-'53 there were some examples of 3/16" thick A3 in use)

Gibson used Alnico III from 1946 to 1957.

My understanding is Gibson spec'd Alnico V from 1957 on, though in the late 50's Gibson used what stock they could get and Alnico IV and Alnico II were often seen in P-90s. (A couple companies doing reproductions put IV in the bridge and II in the neck.)

By 1961, Gibson became more consistent and started using Alnico V short bars.

If these are Ceramic, I assume that is for consistency in the sound across all the pickups from hot bridge to neck, or maybe to counter some kind of loss in output from the coil configuration?

 

[beaubrummels]

curious how they are wired. are the two outside coils in parallel then wired in series with the main coil or ?

He mentioned some kind of intricate/difficult wiring going on. Seems like it could be either to hum-cancel. Parallel would change the tone less, is that the idea?

 

[Guest]

Yeah, true but his question was "Why are they only available in ceramics?"



Here's a quote from Seymour's page:

"Our P90 pickups combine extra coil windings with two small ceramic bar magnets to give you more output, greater sustain, and more overall sensitivity. Both the neck and bridge models have a pronounced upper midrange that will make chords sound mean and full, and solos sound fat and cutting."

 

[beaubrummels]

Keep in mind that is marketing copy. They won't put all the real technical reasons that led to using certain materials on the site.

 

[Mincer]

I am sure someone here will get one and take it apart!

 

[Guest]

I think I'm gonna take the plunge and get the Jared Nichols signature bridge p90, if I'm correct it's similar to the bridge model of this set. I need to take one of my p90 guitars in to the shop to get fixed anyway. The only thing is that this specific guitar has no tone control knob, it only has a volume knob and then a 3 way rotary knob (3 position). However, I probably won't do anything too deep such as taking the pickup apart. It's an old guitar not worth much so I think an upgrade would do it some good!

 

[jeremy]

if you look at the pup, you can see the bar magnets are small. alnicos that size can be less stable, i assume thats why they use ceramics. nothing wrong with ceramic mags when you design the pup with that in mind

 

[jeremy]

Ceramics are usually the preferred go to magnets in P90's, at least from what I understand. It's about the construction of the P90, the way ceramics work with the structure gives a bit more sustain and attack. Additionally, they are more warm and dynamic than say, A2, A3 or A5 magnets and far more dynamic. I have a few ceramic p90 sets so I have seen (or heard) it for myself. I also have p90 sets that utilize Alnico magnets and filtertron construction in the size of p90, that which only one brand has ever done and only for a few years at that.

BUT what do I know, I am a "noob" at all things pickups

i dont agree with much of that. p90s have traditionally had alnico magnets, usually a5 as was mentioned. ceramics are not warmer than alnico, i would suggest the opposite. i wouldnt call them more dynamic either. you can design a fat sounding pup using ceramic magnets, but there is a reason most low output humbuckers dont use ceramics.

 

[beaubrummels]

curious how they are wired. are the two outside coils in parallel then wired in series with the main coil or ?

Hard to see for sure, but they almost look wired in series straight across.

 

[Guest]

Yes, they look very interesting. Since P-90s are my favs, these just might be worth a try, even though I really am not bothered by any regular P-90 hum.

If you don't mind me asking, which p90 is your favorite?

 

[Aceman]

I have to say, I have never been bothered by the noise of a P90. I have Humbucker that pick up RF and such much more than my P-90's

I have a Ceramic P90 in the bridge of a Les Paul and I while it is pretty hot, I don't feel it is cold/sterile/etc at all.

Of course my "silent" P90 experience is limited to P100's, so I am biased.

 

[zionstrat]

Hard to see for sure, but they almost look wired in series straight across.

I may have misheard, but I was pretty sure that I heard wired and series somewhere..

 

[zionstrat]

And now that I look at them I'm trying to understand how they work..

The vox coaxe works because there's an outer coil that surrounds the inner coil.. The outer coil i's extremely low impedance, but still provides noise canceling because there is so much magnetic mass inside of it (those are my terms, someone else is likely to say that electronically correctly

So it kills the hum but it doesn't add practically any impedance, so you mainly hear the inner coil.

But the two outer coils of the silencer look relatively big which I assume would imply significant impedance.

And logically I would think the center coil has to add significant impedance to get this thing up to p90 output. Otherwise these outer coils would see a significant amount of string, making the string 'visibility' wider than a p90 and more like a humbucker?

Of course, there could be less wire on those outer coils than I'm thinking and maybe they are somehow benefiting from the mass of the center coil like the vox.

With that said, does anyone have a theory as to why this pup is noise rejecting but apparently has a more natural p90 tone?

 

[GuitarDoc]

Ceramics are usually the preferred go to magnets in P90's, at least from what I understand. It's about the construction of the P90, the way ceramics work with the structure gives a bit more sustain and attack. Additionally, they are more warm and dynamic than say, A2, A3 or A5 magnets and far more dynamic. I have a few ceramic p90 sets so I have seen (or heard) it for myself. I also have p90 sets that utilize Alnico magnets and filtertron construction in the size of p90, that which only one brand has ever done and only for a few years at that.

BUT what do I know, I am a "noob" at all things pickups

Actually, A5 is the most common go-to magnet in P-90s. Certainly there are some with ceramic as well as some with A2 and even A8.

Ceramics will indeed give more attack (all else being equal), but they are definitely NOT warmer. I've heard P-90s with ceramics that sounded pretty warm but it was due to the wind, wire, and resistance compensating for the ceramic's normally harsh sound.

 

[GuitarDoc]

If you don't mind me asking, which p90 is your favorite?

I don't think I have a favorite. I have many with A5 from various makers that are great. I even have some with ceramic mags that I love (I also have some that I totally hate).

My favorite P-90 in a humbucker case is the GFS Dream 90 followed closely by their Mean 90 (a bit warmer and more powerful).

 

[jeremy]

my favorite p90 is the duncan antiquity but with a5 magnets

 

[zionstrat]

I'm very agnostic about p90s. I've loved almost every p90 I've ever played.. from guitar fetish, SD or Lolar, I love them all... underwound, overwound, and variations on the themes... I just use them for different things.

If abandoned on an island, I would definitely be taking p90 guitar

​

 

[Aceman]

And now that I look at them I'm trying to understand how they work..

The vox coaxe works because there's an outer coil that surrounds the inner coil.. The outer coil i's extremely low impedance, but still provides noise canceling because there is so much magnetic mass inside of it (those are my terms, someone else is likely to say that electronically correctly

So it kills the hum but it doesn't add practically any impedance, so you mainly hear the inner coil.

Again - similar to just splitting a Humbucker. Not silent, but quite than a regular single coil. I suspect, as you mention now, that it is also more tone influencing being equal in winds to the active coil.

 

[GuitarDoc]

I'm very agnostic about p90s. I've loved almost every p90 I've ever played.. from guitar fetish, SD or Lolar, I love them all... underwound, overwound, and variations on the themes... I just use them for different things.

If abandoned on an island, I would definitely be taking p90 guitar

​

I feel essentially the same. I love love P-90s. But, as I said, I do have one or two that I don't like the sound of. They have ceramic magnets which just don't work in these particular pups so I'm gonna replace them with A5s and see if I can rekindle my P-90 love.