Simple marketing idea for : 59, PG, SL "J" versions

T

tonaholic

New member
With all the PAF replicas on the market these days, it seems like one of the best ways to get a whole crowd of "cork sniffers" back into buying 59s would be to do something "special" with them.

Why not have mass production replicas of old school MJ winds? Tell the stories of old. Talk about being the first aftermarket company to use the Leesona, talk about the stories of old with Seymour and MJ winding these for the stars. Talk about how each set came to be, make it mythical almost, because they kind of are but I think the majority of the crowd doesn't get that. Might even be a great opportunity to talk about how SD fabricates their own parts to vintage accuracy. Seems like not a lot of people know that and these days, that's big marketing if I'm seeing things correctly.

I've seen some posts that MJ's pickups are often offset in the coils by 3% or so while the production floor is even in their wind between coils. Maybe go find a few "magic" sets, analyze them: offsets and intricacies in tension etc and maybe even label them an "MJ" or "J" line etc.

Might be fun to do roughcast mags to give them a slightly vintage flavor in a production setting, like the 35th JB/Jazz.

Don't know too much about supply chain logistics but it seems like it would be simple to do?

Especially now that Duncan and everyone can do offset coils (expired Dimarzio patent, as I understand it), why not give us all a reason to buy another 3-4 sets of pickups?

I know I'd be into that. Anybody else curious about something like this? Those "J" models are going for big bucks on EBay.
 
Re: Simple marketing idea for : 59, PG, SL "J" versions

Why the Duncan Co. would want to specifically target "cork sniffers"? That's what the Custom Shop is for, isn't it?

Throughout almost forty years, Seymour has made some great p'up designs and let the tone do the talking; it doesn't need to sell Fairy Tales about Unicorn Dandruff sourced at the Magic Forest situated in the Unexistium Island to kool-aid-thirsty people that prefer to brag about their gear rather that to play their instrument.

That's my two pence worth of nothing. ;)
 
Re: Simple marketing idea for : 59, PG, SL "J" versions

Goin with Kojack, custom shop is the boutique stuff that competes with those other super paf guys that charge almost 200 per humbucker etc. Besides, I believe the PG has slightly offset coils (though that might've just been a rumor but it would make sense considering it's a replica from a time where mismatched coils was common and almost unavoidable), the SL is non-potted, the 59 and Jazz are the modern standard and the WLH has the rough cast (maybe slightly mismatched coils too, which would be exactly what you're describing), and those are all production models. They already talk about the Leesona and other stuff like that in the videos on their site.
 
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Re: Simple marketing idea for : 59, PG, SL "J" versions

Also dimarzio had a patent on coils with different wire gauges I believe, not necessarily mismatched. Could be wrong.
 
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Re: Simple marketing idea for : 59, PG, SL "J" versions

What I'd rather see is the ability - by way of a "standard option," i.e. shop floor custom - to deck out any PAF style pickup like a Seth Lover. Butyrate bobbins, no wax, Seth baseplate, Seth cover, etc. Whatever it is other than the wind (and the winding machine) that sets a Seth apart from, say a '59 or a PG, make that available in those pickups as well. In other words, you'd have the basic Seth parts, but with the wind and magnet of another model of PAF pickup. That would give one the cosmetic "historical accuracy" of a Seth, but without being tied to the Seth wind and an A2 magnet. It's not something that should require Custom Shop prices IMHO. It's basically just winding and assembling a '59 or PG like normal, but using different parts.
 
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Re: Simple marketing idea for : 59, PG, SL "J" versions

LtKojak said:
Why the Duncan Co. would want to specifically target "cork sniffers"? That's what the Custom Shop is for, isn't it?

Throughout almost forty years, Seymour has made some great p'up designs and let the tone do the talking; it doesn't need to sell Fairy Tales about Unicorn Dandruff sourced at the Magic Forest situated in the Unexistium Island to kool-aid-thirsty people that prefer to brag about their gear rather that to play their instrument.

That's my two pence worth of nothing. ;)
Click to expand...

LMAO!
That was good LtKojak.
PC
 
Re: Simple marketing idea for : 59, PG, SL "J" versions

LtKojak said:
Why the Duncan Co. would want to specifically target "cork sniffers"? That's what the Custom Shop is for, isn't it?

Throughout almost forty years, Seymour has made some great p'up designs and let the tone do the talking; it doesn't need to sell Fairy Tales about Unicorn Dandruff sourced at the Magic Forest situated in the Unexistium Island to kool-aid-thirsty people that prefer to brag about their gear rather that to play their instrument.

That's my two pence worth of nothing. ;)
Click to expand...

Said a man touting the 'Whisperer' range...
 
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Re: Simple marketing idea for : 59, PG, SL "J" versions

ItsaBass said:
What I'd rather see is the ability - by way of a "standard option," i.e. shop floor custom - to deck out any PAF style pickup like a Seth Lover. Butyrate bobbins, no wax, Seth baseplate, Seth cover, etc. Whatever it is other than the wind (and the winding machine) that sets a Seth apart from, say a '59 or a PG, make that available in those pickups as well. In other words, you'd have the basic Seth parts, but with the wind and magnet of another model of PAF pickup. That would give one the cosmetic accuracy of a Seth, but without being tied to the Seth wind and an A2 magnet. It's not something that should require Custom Shop prices IMHO. It's basically just winding and assembling a '59 or PG like normal, but using different parts.
Click to expand...

That's a pretty fantastic ideas right there
 
Re: Simple marketing idea for : 59, PG, SL "J" versions

LtKojak said:
Why the Duncan Co. would want to specifically target "cork sniffers"? That's what the Custom Shop is for, isn't it?

Throughout almost forty years, Seymour has made some great p'up designs and let the tone do the talking; it doesn't need to sell Fairy Tales about Unicorn Dandruff sourced at the Magic Forest situated in the Unexistium Island to kool-aid-thirsty people that prefer to brag about their gear rather that to play their instrument.

That's my two pence worth of nothing. ;)
Click to expand...

While true, aren't you one of the most vocal about the MJ wind being different and full of mojo? I imagine that if one wanted to find quotes of yours ascribing mythical mojo breath from MJ bring breathed into the pickup during the wind process, it would probably take less time than making a sandwich.

Also,cork sniffers spend a LOT of money on smaller market product designed to appeal to their taste, even if it is just marketing. It's just good business. Why did Volkswagen buy Lamborghini? To compete with Ferraris market? Not as much as "the halo effect" of flagship product and to increase market share. It's just good business to own more of the available market one competes in.
 
Re: Simple marketing idea for : 59, PG, SL "J" versions

FWIW, I've got an MJ wound Full Shred that I've been trying to sell for two years. Even people that are looking for a Full Shred have passed on it and I only want what most used Duncans are going for. I may have to practically give it away, which sucks.
 
Re: Simple marketing idea for : 59, PG, SL "J" versions

Dr.K said:
FWIW, I've got an MJ wound Full Shred that I've been trying to sell for two years. Even people that are looking for a Full Shred have passed on it and I only want what most used Duncans are going for. I may have to practically give it away, which sucks.
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dude hit up Mad Max here on the forums, he said he's looking for one.
 
Re: Simple marketing idea for : 59, PG, SL "J" versions

Falloffthebonetone said:
Goin with Kojack, custom shop is the boutique stuff that competes with those other super paf guys that charge almost 200 per humbucker etc. Besides, I believe the PG has slightly offset coils (though that might've just been a rumor but it would make sense considering it's a replica from a time where mismatched coils was common and almost unavoidable), the SL is non-potted, the 59 and Jazz are the modern standard and the WLH has the rough cast (maybe slightly mismatched coils too, which would be exactly what you're describing), and those are all production models. They already talk about the Leesona and other stuff like that in the videos on their site.
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I do think they could do a much better job telling their story on the website. Maybe embedding the factory tour YouTube videos to the main site could help.

I agree there is a lot of variety to be had but the PG and all current PAF production is evenly wound, to quote Evan Skopp:

"Re: Which Duncan PAF is wound with mismatched coils?
All SD PAF humbuckers are machine wound and all have the same number of turns of the same gauge wire with the same insulation on each bobbin, including the Pearly Gates and the '78 Model."

The Dimarzio patent has expired, which allows for the existence of the hybrid production model or any other uneven wind difference one desires.
 
Re: Simple marketing idea for : 59, PG, SL "J" versions

tonaholic said:
While true, aren't you one of the most vocal about the MJ wind being different and full of mojo?
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Yes, because it IS true. I own p'ups wound by MJ that are something special. And also own the same models which I can A/B compare and guess what? I can pinpoint "that" sound every single time.

That's what I consider evidence.

tonaholic said:
Also,cork sniffers spend a LOT of money on smaller market product designed to appeal to their taste, even if it is just marketing. It's just good business. Why did Volkswagen buy Lamborghini? To compete with Ferraris market? Not as much as "the halo effect" of flagship product and to increase market share. It's just good business to own more of the available market one competes in.
Click to expand...

You seem to have missed my point, which is: Duncan doesn't need to spew BS just to cater that market segment. They don't buy tone, they buy the idea of owning something special that will somehow make THEM special, not to PLAY and MAKE MUSIC, they are into buying BRAGGING RIGHTS.

I hope it's clearer now.
 
Re: Simple marketing idea for : 59, PG, SL "J" versions

LtKojak said:
Yes, because it IS true. I own p'ups wound by MJ that are something special. And also own the same models which I can A/B compare and guess what? I can pinpoint "that" sound every single time.

That's what I consider evidence.



You seem to have missed my point, which is: Duncan doesn't need to spew BS just to cater that market segment. They don't buy tone, they buy the idea of owning something special that will somehow make THEM special, not to PLAY and MAKE MUSIC, they are into buying BRAGGING RIGHTS.

I hope it's clearer now.
Click to expand...

So there is indeed a product difference that could add value to the lineup.

In regard to the market and purchase decisions, I think we're both close to the mark but I have a much less cynical perspective on it. Perhaps your business could even benefit from this. It seems to me that if they released them, you would be near the front of the line to purchase pickups off the production line if they could get "that" sound. It wouldn't be spewing BS. It's just good marketing and product. Telling a story is a form of Branding. Educating consumers is one of the most popular types of marketing being employed today because it's effective in the age of the empowered and educated consumer.
 
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