Simplest Rackmount rig
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DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: Simplest Rackmount rig
Depends on the functions you want. I'm assuming it's just the wireless and fx system, but not a rack preamp you're looking into?
I've heard good things about the G Majors, but haven't tried one myself. I've been using a Digitech TSR-12 for over a decade, but that's also with a rack preamp running into it
Can't speak for wireless as I haven't had one since before cell phones took over the operating frequency.
For a foot controller, I'd recommend the ART X-15 Ultrafoot with the 2 treadles on it. It works with anything that can take MIDI CC messages, so you don't have to deal with proprietary systems. You can also find them pretty cheap if you look around. Obviously it's better if the fx unit has things in it that will make use of the treadles, like a wah, but you can assign them to other functions as long as they correspond to a CC value, such as volume of a given effect, effect parameters (chorus rate/depth/sweep, tremolo/panning speed, wet/dry mix, pitch up/down), or overall volume.
Depends on the functions you want. I'm assuming it's just the wireless and fx system, but not a rack preamp you're looking into?
I've heard good things about the G Majors, but haven't tried one myself. I've been using a Digitech TSR-12 for over a decade, but that's also with a rack preamp running into it
Can't speak for wireless as I haven't had one since before cell phones took over the operating frequency.
For a foot controller, I'd recommend the ART X-15 Ultrafoot with the 2 treadles on it. It works with anything that can take MIDI CC messages, so you don't have to deal with proprietary systems. You can also find them pretty cheap if you look around. Obviously it's better if the fx unit has things in it that will make use of the treadles, like a wah, but you can assign them to other functions as long as they correspond to a CC value, such as volume of a given effect, effect parameters (chorus rate/depth/sweep, tremolo/panning speed, wet/dry mix, pitch up/down), or overall volume.
dystrust
New member
Re: Simplest Rackmount rig
I've built a few racks over the years and if you're looking for simple and/or cheap you should forget about racks and look elsewhere. If you're OK with the complication, expense, and weight here's what I'd recommend for a basic rack / effects system.
Preamp: ADA MP-1 or Marshall JMP-1
The Marshall is more expensive, but it may still be possible to fix if something goes wrong. The ADA has a really cool 'Jazz Chorus' solid state clean that you can't really find anywhere else. Its major downside is that your preamp becomes a paperweight if anything goes wrong.
FX: TC G-Major
Original G-Majors can be had for $150 or so. The modulations aren't amazing, but the reverbs & delays are excellent for a unit so inexpensive.
Power: Peavey Classic 50/50 or 60/60
It's true that Mesa power amps are better, but you can't beat Peavey for price, decent tone, & reliability. I'd stay away from Marshall stuff as their build quality just doesn't justify their prices.
Control: ADA MC-1 (simple / cheap) / Rolls Midi Buddy, ART X-15 / Behringer BCB-1010, or Rocktron Midimate / Voodoo Lab Ground Control Pro
The MC-1 and Midi Buddy are about as simple as midi controllers get. No expression pedals or inputs, and it sends a single program change per button press. The pros are that they're dead simple to use as there is literally nothing to program. The downside is that there isn't much flexibility. The other end of the spectrum is the Ground Control Pro. Expression pedal inputs as well as programmable buttons that can send several program and control changes at once. A bit daunting a first, but one of the easiest pieces of gear I've seen to program. They run about $150-200 used so about 3x as much as an MC-1, though not horrible. I've also heard decent feedback on the ART X-15 and Behringer BCB-1010, though I've never used either.
I couldn't tell you on wireless since I don't use one. I personally don't care for their effect on the guitar's tone & feel and just use a cable.
These are just the basics to get started. Keep in mind that you'd also need a rack case, power distribution, and a couple of cabinets since a system like this is best run in stereo.
I've built a few racks over the years and if you're looking for simple and/or cheap you should forget about racks and look elsewhere. If you're OK with the complication, expense, and weight here's what I'd recommend for a basic rack / effects system.
Preamp: ADA MP-1 or Marshall JMP-1
The Marshall is more expensive, but it may still be possible to fix if something goes wrong. The ADA has a really cool 'Jazz Chorus' solid state clean that you can't really find anywhere else. Its major downside is that your preamp becomes a paperweight if anything goes wrong.
FX: TC G-Major
Original G-Majors can be had for $150 or so. The modulations aren't amazing, but the reverbs & delays are excellent for a unit so inexpensive.
Power: Peavey Classic 50/50 or 60/60
It's true that Mesa power amps are better, but you can't beat Peavey for price, decent tone, & reliability. I'd stay away from Marshall stuff as their build quality just doesn't justify their prices.
Control: ADA MC-1 (simple / cheap) / Rolls Midi Buddy, ART X-15 / Behringer BCB-1010, or Rocktron Midimate / Voodoo Lab Ground Control Pro
The MC-1 and Midi Buddy are about as simple as midi controllers get. No expression pedals or inputs, and it sends a single program change per button press. The pros are that they're dead simple to use as there is literally nothing to program. The downside is that there isn't much flexibility. The other end of the spectrum is the Ground Control Pro. Expression pedal inputs as well as programmable buttons that can send several program and control changes at once. A bit daunting a first, but one of the easiest pieces of gear I've seen to program. They run about $150-200 used so about 3x as much as an MC-1, though not horrible. I've also heard decent feedback on the ART X-15 and Behringer BCB-1010, though I've never used either.
I couldn't tell you on wireless since I don't use one. I personally don't care for their effect on the guitar's tone & feel and just use a cable.
These are just the basics to get started. Keep in mind that you'd also need a rack case, power distribution, and a couple of cabinets since a system like this is best run in stereo.
PFDarkside
of the Forum
Re: Simplest Rackmount rig
"Simplest" and "best price" usually don't go along with rack in my mind.
What is your overall goal?
"Simplest" and "best price" usually don't go along with rack in my mind.
What is your overall goal?
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: Simplest Rackmount rig
If you can get the proprietary foot controller for the FX unit you're going for, I say do it, because even though it's likely way over-priced, it should also have the features a "universal" MIDI pedal won't, like individual effect on/off and patch selection by number rather than in sequence.
If you can get the proprietary foot controller for the FX unit you're going for, I say do it, because even though it's likely way over-priced, it should also have the features a "universal" MIDI pedal won't, like individual effect on/off and patch selection by number rather than in sequence.
El Dunco
Sock Supplier to RHCP
Re: Simplest Rackmount rig
I just got my MP-1. It matches with the ADA single rack space power amp perfectly and the distortion channels are very versatile and has enough cursory effects (chorus and so on) that I don't have to call as many on my fx unit and save it for the really special effects.
I just got my MP-1. It matches with the ADA single rack space power amp perfectly and the distortion channels are very versatile and has enough cursory effects (chorus and so on) that I don't have to call as many on my fx unit and save it for the really special effects.
Re: Simplest Rackmount rig
Problem is that older, cheaper rack units sound pretty...um, dated, by today's standards. Older rack units don't stand up well to traditional pedal into the amp setups. If you want presets, look into pedal switchers, which switch different combinations of pedals on. If you are set on a rack, the best deal these days is a Digitech GSP1101 with a good midi foot controller like the Behringer FCB1010, but you have to program both yourself (not hard).
Problem is that older, cheaper rack units sound pretty...um, dated, by today's standards. Older rack units don't stand up well to traditional pedal into the amp setups. If you want presets, look into pedal switchers, which switch different combinations of pedals on. If you are set on a rack, the best deal these days is a Digitech GSP1101 with a good midi foot controller like the Behringer FCB1010, but you have to program both yourself (not hard).
dystrust
New member
Re: Simplest Rackmount rig
We've all been trying to tell you that there's no 'free lunch' here. If you use pedals & an amp you may have to tap dance, but the tone will be better than a rack. With a rack system you're trading overall quality for a larger number of sounds and maybe extra convenience. You also have greater complexity & expense due to things like rack cases, power distribution, and midi controllers and/or switchers.
I hate tap dancing as much as you do; I'm sure that all of us get that. I've also built and used several rack systems and don't consider them to be worth the trouble. None of my racks sounded as good as my guitar into a great amp (even if the Soldano SP-77 was close). You'll end up carrying more weight / gear even if running mono because a rack case is much bigger than a head at the very least. Last of all racks are FAR HARDER to troubleshoot if something goes wrong. If your guitar / pedal board doesn't produce sound it isn't hard to remove pedal(s) from the chain or bypass the board and go straight in if need be. If your rack system doesn't produce sound you're having to check and re-patch cables in the back of a rack case in the dark and it still might not work.
I'm not trying to p*** in your cheerios, but rack systems really aren't any sort of magical solution. I'd wager that's why you see so few guitar racks these days and those that you do see are used by touring pros with a tech to look after it.
We've all been trying to tell you that there's no 'free lunch' here. If you use pedals & an amp you may have to tap dance, but the tone will be better than a rack. With a rack system you're trading overall quality for a larger number of sounds and maybe extra convenience. You also have greater complexity & expense due to things like rack cases, power distribution, and midi controllers and/or switchers.
I hate tap dancing as much as you do; I'm sure that all of us get that. I've also built and used several rack systems and don't consider them to be worth the trouble. None of my racks sounded as good as my guitar into a great amp (even if the Soldano SP-77 was close). You'll end up carrying more weight / gear even if running mono because a rack case is much bigger than a head at the very least. Last of all racks are FAR HARDER to troubleshoot if something goes wrong. If your guitar / pedal board doesn't produce sound it isn't hard to remove pedal(s) from the chain or bypass the board and go straight in if need be. If your rack system doesn't produce sound you're having to check and re-patch cables in the back of a rack case in the dark and it still might not work.
I'm not trying to p*** in your cheerios, but rack systems really aren't any sort of magical solution. I'd wager that's why you see so few guitar racks these days and those that you do see are used by touring pros with a tech to look after it.
dystrust
New member
Re: Simplest Rackmount rig
+1
I've never played an Axe FXII, but the original Axe Ultra is amazing. My problem is that I just can't justify spending $1000-1500 on an Ultra or $2500 on an FXII only to have a single piece of gear that'll depreciate to such a huge degree or be a paperweight if anything goes wrong. If the OP is ok with those trade-offs, look no further. They may be modelers, but they're the only thing I've ever seen that both sound and respond the way a 'real' amp does.
I'd wager that if I took an Axe / monitor as well as the amp it's modeling and put both behind a curtain you wouldn't be able to tell which was which, either listening or playing through them.
+1
I've never played an Axe FXII, but the original Axe Ultra is amazing. My problem is that I just can't justify spending $1000-1500 on an Ultra or $2500 on an FXII only to have a single piece of gear that'll depreciate to such a huge degree or be a paperweight if anything goes wrong. If the OP is ok with those trade-offs, look no further. They may be modelers, but they're the only thing I've ever seen that both sound and respond the way a 'real' amp does.
I'd wager that if I took an Axe / monitor as well as the amp it's modeling and put both behind a curtain you wouldn't be able to tell which was which, either listening or playing through them.
Rand-O-Monium
New member
Re: Simplest Rackmount rig
Rocktron Chameleon/Voodu Valve
.02
Rocktron Chameleon/Voodu Valve
.02
Johnny the Kid
Shaunofthedeadologist
Re: Simplest Rackmount rig
As someone who uses a modeler for effects, it's not a 100% solution. It's like a 85%. If you really want to go with a modeler, the POD 500 isn't the worst thing to try and I've found it works better as just an effects processor than as a modeling rig.
That being said, don't expect it to sound like an amp with pedals. It will have a certain modeling quality to it.
As someone who uses a modeler for effects, it's not a 100% solution. It's like a 85%. If you really want to go with a modeler, the POD 500 isn't the worst thing to try and I've found it works better as just an effects processor than as a modeling rig.
That being said, don't expect it to sound like an amp with pedals. It will have a certain modeling quality to it.
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Simplest Rackmount rig
If I was to put together a rack setup for live use, this is what it would have:
Furman Power Conditioner
Korg Rack Tuner
Marshall JMP-1 preamp
Lexicon MX200 multi-effects
Marshall EL34 50/50 power amp
That would then run out to a couple of 1x12 or 2x12 cabs.
It certainly wouldn't be cheap.
If I was to put together a rack setup for live use, this is what it would have:
Furman Power Conditioner
Korg Rack Tuner
Marshall JMP-1 preamp
Lexicon MX200 multi-effects
Marshall EL34 50/50 power amp
That would then run out to a couple of 1x12 or 2x12 cabs.
It certainly wouldn't be cheap.
dystrust
New member
Re: Simplest Rackmount rig
Does the JMP-1 have a parallel loop? I tried to use an MX200 in a guitar rack a few years ago, but it mutes while switching with no dry spillover. Unless you can run it in a parallel loop or some sort of mixer aux, it just doesn't work for guitar. That's really a shame because some of the effects were awesome; particularly the phase shifter.
Does the JMP-1 have a parallel loop? I tried to use an MX200 in a guitar rack a few years ago, but it mutes while switching with no dry spillover. Unless you can run it in a parallel loop or some sort of mixer aux, it just doesn't work for guitar. That's really a shame because some of the effects were awesome; particularly the phase shifter.
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Simplest Rackmount rig
I believe so, yes. There are is a mod out there that makes it a serial loop. It's been so long since I've used one. It's a cool preamp.
I believe so, yes. There are is a mod out there that makes it a serial loop. It's been so long since I've used one. It's a cool preamp.
dystrust
New member
Re: Simplest Rackmount rig
I just checked the JMP-1 manual and it does have a parallel loop, so the MX200 would work great.
If I were building that rack I'd consider an MX300 for the greater programming flexibility, and switch to a Mesa 50/50 (the older one, not the 2:50) for the power amp. I briefly had a rack with a JMP-1 & 50/50 and it just nailed Dave Mustaine's sound from Cryptic Writings.
Throw in a pair of Bogner Cubes or Marshall 1966A / 2061 cabs and you'd be set.
I just checked the JMP-1 manual and it does have a parallel loop, so the MX200 would work great.
If I were building that rack I'd consider an MX300 for the greater programming flexibility, and switch to a Mesa 50/50 (the older one, not the 2:50) for the power amp. I briefly had a rack with a JMP-1 & 50/50 and it just nailed Dave Mustaine's sound from Cryptic Writings.
Throw in a pair of Bogner Cubes or Marshall 1966A / 2061 cabs and you'd be set.
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Simplest Rackmount rig
It's an appealing setup, I admit. I'm rather simple though so I don't have a real need for it unless all my amps decided to die at once. Then I'd probably look at this sort of option. Heck, I could get away with excluding the effects processor and just putting a reverb and delay pedal in the loop.
It's an appealing setup, I admit. I'm rather simple though so I don't have a real need for it unless all my amps decided to die at once. Then I'd probably look at this sort of option. Heck, I could get away with excluding the effects processor and just putting a reverb and delay pedal in the loop.
dystrust
New member
Re: Simplest Rackmount rig
If I really wanted to go all-out, I'd up the ante to an Egnater M4 (with a few select modules), TC G-Force, & Mesa Simul 395. The problem is that I've been down that road a few times, and the tone just never justifies carrying all the extra crap and dealing with the associated headaches.
I just need to play more often so I get reminded of how good my current rig sounds.
If I really wanted to go all-out, I'd up the ante to an Egnater M4 (with a few select modules), TC G-Force, & Mesa Simul 395. The problem is that I've been down that road a few times, and the tone just never justifies carrying all the extra crap and dealing with the associated headaches.
I just need to play more often so I get reminded of how good my current rig sounds.
