Single Pickup for Les Paul Jr. - P - Rail?

[kdlp]

I acquired an Epiphone LP Jr. from the father of a beginning guitar player. (He basically gave it to me for $20) After running my hand up/down the neck I discovered 2 things... I over paid and I know why his kid didn't want to learn any longer. After 5 or 6 hours of filing fret ends and levelling frets I plugged it in and while the single humbucker isn't horrible (at least not as bad as the neck), I still think I want to replace it.

I'm a newbie at replacing Pups so my initial reaction was just to find and plug in a quality humbucker... In looking around for one I discovered the P-Rails and the switchable mounting ring. I know some of the Gibson single Pup LP Jr's were loaded with a P-90 and since that's one of the sounds the P-Rail replicates I was thinking that would be the way to go. (Plus with the Triple Play mounting ring I can switch between the 2 sounds or gang them for the humbucker sound.)

This guitar is routed for a single humbucker about 1/2 inch in front of the bridge.

So here's my current thinking:

This mounting ring - https://www.seymourduncan.com/accessory/triple-shot-bridge-arched
and this "hotter" P-Rail Pup - https://www.seymourduncan.com/pickup/p-rails-hot-bridge

Also, is there any advantage to using a Neck Pup in the Bridge position. I had always heard that bridge Pups are generally louder than neck Pups and since this is a single Pup guitar I'm thinking the "bridge" type is a better way to go.

Does this all sound like a good idea? Alternatives? Suggestions? I'm thinking I can afford to drop a few hundred into this to get a usable sound/player. The tuning keys seem stable so there's no need to throw $$$ at those. Someday I may replace the two pots, but the Pup seems to need the most immediate attention.

School me & thanks!

kp

 

[Blille]

Single Pickup for Les Paul Jr. - P - Rail?

Welcome and congrats!

A prails is a great idea for a single pickup guitar. The hot one might be very hot.

Most of the time the sole difference between neck and bridge is output.

What kind of music do you play?

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Single Pickup for Les Paul Jr. - P - Rail?

The trick to get a versatile LP Jr. is to try and go the opposite direction. The LP Jr. wants to be simple and giving it complex electronics just gives it a weird vibe. What you want is a good pickup and very usable volume and tone controls.

I'd say give it a 59/C and direct some effort to find a tone cap value that you find works well across the entire range of the pot. A no-load pot also works nice.

 

[kdlp]

Re: Single Pickup for Les Paul Jr. - P - Rail?

What kind of music do you play?

Rock and Classic Rock for the most part ... I'm not playing in any bands for now. I have a Strat w/50's pups and a PRS SE 245 (stock) so I'm looking for a different sound to fill in that Green Day/Basic vibe.

kp

 

[kdlp]

Re: Single Pickup for Les Paul Jr. - P - Rail?

The trick to get a versatile LP Jr. is to try and go the opposite direction. The LP Jr. wants to be simple and giving it complex electronics just gives it a weird vibe. What you want is a good pickup and very usable volume and tone controls.

I'd say give it a 59/C and direct some effort to find a tone cap value that you find works well across the entire range of the pot. A no-load pot also works nice.

Thanks for this response .... I'll search up the 59C and give it a listen. Any starting point for the cap value I should be looking at? I play thru "all tube" type amps... a Fender Blues Jr and a small Marshall combo.

kp

 

[Blille]

Re: Single Pickup for Les Paul Jr. - P - Rail?

Rock and Classic Rock for the most part ... I'm not playing in any bands for now. I have a Strat w/50's pups and a PRS SE 245 (stock) so I'm looking for a different sound to fill in that Green Day/Basic vibe.

kp

My recommendation would then be to go with the normal bridge prail, not the hot.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Single Pickup for Les Paul Jr. - P - Rail?

Nice choice for that guitar. Just make sure that when/if you decide to sell it down the road, you pull the nice pickup and ring out so you can re use them, and return the guitar to stock. If you were to sell with the Triple Shot and P-Rails in the guitar, someone would be getting a hell of a score, while you would be losing out.

Using the neck model P-Rails instead of the bridge model will give you a brighter, clearer pickup. This is what I like to do with P-Rails, because I like more "old-school" tones, and I can't deal with a lot of output because my main amps have very little clean headroom. You can always add layer upon layer of dirt to an inherently clean pickup, but it is harder to tame an inherently dirty pickup for nice cleaner/crunchier tones.

FWIW, I think the P-90 coil of the P-Rails is hands down the best P-90-in-humbucker-rout tone that I have tried, from any pickup maker.

 

[BadBen]

Re: Single Pickup for Les Paul Jr. - P - Rail?

I can't imagine the P-Rail wouldn't be amazing. I have a cheapo Epi LP Jr that I put a DiMarzio Bluesbucker in and wired the tone Spin-A-Split with 500K pots. I also added a Schaller 456 bridge for intonation and fine tuning, put on locking Grovers, and a bone nut. So yeah, I put way more into it than it's worth... It's got classic rock all day though, and I dig it.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Single Pickup for Les Paul Jr. - P - Rail?

I can't imagine the P-Rail wouldn't be amazing. I have a cheapo Epi LP Jr that I put a DiMarzio Bluesbucker in and wired the tone Spin-A-Split with 500K pots. I also added a Schaller 456 bridge for intonation and fine tuning, put on locking Grovers, and a bone nut. So yeah, I put way more into it than it's worth... It's got classic rock all day though, and I dig it.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Funny you should mention the Bluesbucker. In my post above, I mentioned that the P-Rail neck P-90 coil is my favorite humbucker sized P-90 tone. The Bluesbucker comes in at number two.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Single Pickup for Les Paul Jr. - P - Rail?

oh hell yes

Why aren't the pics up yet with a sound clip?!?!?!?!?!

 

[kdlp]

Re: Single Pickup for Les Paul Jr. - P - Rail?

I can't imagine the P-Rail wouldn't be amazing. I have a cheapo Epi LP Jr that I put a DiMarzio Bluesbucker in and wired the tone Spin-A-Split with 500K pots. I also added a Schaller 456 bridge for intonation and fine tuning, put on locking Grovers, and a bone nut. So yeah, I put way more into it than it's worth... It's got classic rock all day though, and I dig it.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

I had the thought of finding a bridge that you could intonate but I was told that you had to change the rout to make anything fit. Did the Schaller 456 fit the same Epi LP Jr. holes? Did you have any bridge height problems?

I'm going to add a Tusq nut on the next string change but I think the tuners will stay for a while. They seem to be pretty stable.

kp

 

[kdlp]

Re: Single Pickup for Les Paul Jr. - P - Rail?

Using the neck model P-Rails instead of the bridge model will give you a brighter, clearer pickup. This is what I like to do with P-Rails, because I like more "old-school" tones, and I can't deal with a lot of output because my main amps have very little clean headroom. You can always add layer upon layer of dirt to an inherently clean pickup, but it is harder to tame an inherently dirty pickup for nice cleaner/crunchier tones.

Just to make sure I understand.... you're using the regular P-Rail neck pup in the bridge position? And I know what you mean ... dirty in/dirt out when you can have clean in/dirt or clean out.

kp

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Single Pickup for Les Paul Jr. - P - Rail?

Yes, that's what I'm doing. I naturally call regular and hot neck and bridge; I forget sometimes that they are not actually called those things by Duncan.

 

[BadBen]

Re: Single Pickup for Les Paul Jr. - P - Rail?

I had the thought of finding a bridge that you could intonate but I was told that you had to change the rout to make anything fit. Did the Schaller 456 fit the same Epi LP Jr. holes? Did you have any bridge height problems?

kp

Now that you mention it, I do remember that I had to find different posts, which made me have to change the bushings in the body. Funny how I had blocked that out... Anyway, no hight problems and I was able to lower it right to the body so potentially contributing to more sustain (let me have this...), but really I picked the 456 because Tony Iommi used one. I'd say it takes work, but I love the look and I do think I get a MOJO benefit.

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[kdlp]

Re: Single Pickup for Les Paul Jr. - P - Rail?

OK - Its good to know there’s a combination out there that will work if/when the time comes.

My D & G strings were slightly flat when I checked the intonation while doing the fret work... but for now, it’s not causing too much grief.

I have some listening/thinking to do regarding the pups... My thanks for those who responded
to the newbie.... and I’m certainly open to other ideas!

kp

 

[Mincer]

Re: Single Pickup for Les Paul Jr. - P - Rail?

Well, when deciding on the P-Rail (great choice), first think about how you like to work. Do you like to set and forget? Do you constantly change sounds for different parts of the song? Do you just want a no-nonsense rock n roll machine? The answers to these might clear up the question of the P-Rail or another humbucker.

 

[kdlp]

Re: Single Pickup for Les Paul Jr. - P - Rail?

Well, when deciding on the P-Rail (great choice), first think about how you like to work. Do you like to set and forget? Do you constantly change sounds for different parts of the song? Do you just want a no-nonsense rock n roll machine? The answers to these might clear up the question of the P-Rail or another humbucker.

Hmmmmm ... interesting perspective, and I do see your point. The last band I played with had 2 guitar players so it was pretty much RnR machine. I'm not now playing with anyone (in fact I can't remember the last song I played all the way through) so it's not going to be a big factor right now, but in a 1 guitar band being able to flip on the fly would be helpful.

To be honest, I'm leaning (right now) toward the P-Rail. I like the fact that people say it sounds very P-90 (for a humbucker size) and the option of the extra (hopefully usable) sounds from the rail and combo are enticing. If I was hearing that the P-90 sounded artificial or cheap I'd probably be looking toward the humbucker.

Sure would be nice to drive to a local guitar store and hear these pups but that's not an option in AK.

kp

 

[beezerboy]

Re: Single Pickup for Les Paul Jr. - P - Rail?

P-rail has a bunch of good sounds. I outfitted a Korean Hamer with one & it rocks. I installed a 4 position rotary switch so that I can get series and parallel settings as well as single coil & p90. the rail is the weaker part, so for better balance I screwed the pole pieces in so I could raise the whole pup & get the rail closer to the strings

 

[Mincer]

Re: Single Pickup for Les Paul Jr. - P - Rail?

The P-Rails other sounds are good, but the P90 sound itself is where it is at. I suspect that is where you will live much of the time. I like the parallel sounds, too- and if I had a 1 humbucker guitar, I'd choose a P-Rail, too.