Skinner Burst Pups- How to phase reverse and related questions

Z

zionstrat

Well-known member
Have a client who owns a set of SD Skinner Bursts, we will install in his LP and he wants to explore mods that will give him more flexibility- Right now we are considering the following with some combination of push pull pots:

Phase reverse
Phase reverse in series
Half out of phase
Bass cut

The challenge with the first 3 is the need to reverse phase with a single conductor pup
-The normal thing to do is add a ground wire to carry the negative and separate the shield from negative
-However, I'm concerned that this might reduce the value of the pickup? Any thoughts?
-Has anyone done this mod on a SB? Assuming it is relatively easy, but interested in your experience.

I have a buddy who does phase reverses without breaking the shield/ground and somehow it works for him- I usually ended up with noise when I tried this as a kid, but am I missing something?

Looking forward to your input- and customer is open to ideas so I would appreciate your thoughts on the listed mods, how to wire them and other variations (this is a case where he wants to experiment- no preconceived goals).

Thanks in advance!
ZStrat
 
Re: Skinner Burst Pups- How to phase reverse and related questions

If the pickups are uncovered you can reverse the magnet in just one pickup by sliding it out and giving it a half turn.

Like if you were in bed and spun around so your feet were where your head was...and your head is where your feet were.

Each pickup will sound normal when used by itself. But when they're combined they'll get that pinched/nasal sound of being out of phase.

If the pickups are unpotted you'll have to remove the cover of one pickup, reverse the magnet and then put the cover back on.
 
Re: Skinner Burst Pups- How to phase reverse and related questions

Lewguitar said:
If the pickups are uncovered you can reverse the magnet in just one pickup by sliding it out and giving it a half turn.

Like if you were in bed and spun around so your feet were where your head was...and your head is where your feet were.

Each pickup will sound normal when used by itself. But when they're combined they'll get that pinched/nasal sound of being out of phase.

If the pickups are unpotted you'll have to remove the cover of one pickup, reverse the magnet and then put the cover back on.
Click to expand...
Thanks Lew, but thinking I'm missing something. If I flip mags in both coils, won't that pup always be out of phase with the other?

The idea is to flip phase of 1 pup with a switch. Easy to do with 4 conductor.

Also, I haven't seen the pups in person, but on SD web, they look covered and possibly potted.

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Re: Skinner Burst Pups- How to phase reverse and related questions

i doubt they are potted since they are copies of a paf. there isnt really a good way to wire phase to a switch without isolating the ground from the two coil wires. you can try it but ive always found it really noisy. its an expensive set of pups to be messing with since almost anything you do will probably negatively effect the resale value at least a little.
 
Re: Skinner Burst Pups- How to phase reverse and related questions

zionstrat said:
Thanks Lew, but thinking I'm missing something. If I flip mags in both coils, won't that pup always be out of phase with the other?

The idea is to flip phase of 1 pup with a switch. Easy to do with 4 conductor.

Also, I haven't seen the pups in person, but on SD web, they look covered and possibly potted.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

You'd only flip the magnet in one pickup. Not both. There's a single magnet in each pickup and you only flip the magnet in one pickup.

But "yes"...they would then sound out of phase with each other whenever they're combined.

That's the "Peter Green" mod...what PG did to his '59 Les Paul.

Also the way pickups in a Gibson ES-345 or 355 are done. BB King's sound.
 
Re: Skinner Burst Pups- How to phase reverse and related questions

Lewguitar said:
You'd only flip the magnet in one pickup. Not both. There's a single magnet in each pickup and you only flip the magnet in one pickup.

But "yes"...they would then sound out of phase with each other whenever they're combined.

That's the "Peter Green" mod...what PG did to his '59 Les Paul.

Also the way pickups in a Gibson ES-345 or 355 are done. BB King's sound.
Click to expand...
Yes mistyped, only need to mod 1 pup.

But to be clear, if I go the other direction and add the ground wire to one pup, I can flip it with a pull pot to get Keith Green, I can add a cap on another push pull for HOOP, and use a third for series, right?


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Re: Skinner Burst Pups- How to phase reverse and related questions

jeremy said:
i doubt they are potted since they are copies of a paf. there isnt really a good way to wire phase to a switch without isolating the ground from the two coil wires. you can try it but ive always found it really noisy. its an expensive set of pups to be messing with since almost anything you do will probably negatively effect the resale value at least a little.
Click to expand...
Thanks Jeremy... I've converted 1 conductor to 2 before, snipped the ground from output wire and connected the new wire at that point. Do you know if Skinner is more difficult than any other paf?

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Re: Skinner Burst Pups- How to phase reverse and related questions

nope, should be easy to do!
 
Re: Skinner Burst Pups- How to phase reverse and related questions

jeremy said:
nope, should be easy to do!
Click to expand...

As much as I would like to do the mod, I've reached out to custom shop to get their take for the reasons you would imagine-

1. If they do the mod, maybe SD custom documentation will increase value instead of decrease?
2. Never had a slip up before, but would be a big expense for us if something did go wrong

Will keep you informed when I know more and thanks again-
Zstrat
 
Re: Skinner Burst Pups- How to phase reverse and related questions

CS documentation will mean you won't lose as much as if you would have otherwise. There is no 'rarity' factor for something like this, so no increase in value or desirability unless the buyer happens to want precisely the same mod and is one of those odd 1%-ers that thinks mods increase value
 
Re: Skinner Burst Pups- How to phase reverse and related questions

if the custom shop makes it 4 cond then i dont think it would hurt the value and i can see someone else wanting a skinnerburst pup with 4 cond for similar reasons as your client
 
Re: Skinner Burst Pups- How to phase reverse and related questions

For additional sounds, I'd recommend the Jimmy Page 4 push-pull system, that gives 21 sounds. No one uses all of them (as some are similar), but some are useful. These are the ones I like:

- Coil split for neck
- Coil split for bridge
- Coil spilt for neck + bridge
- Bridge in HB, neck in coil split
- Neck in HB, bridge in coil split
- PU's linked in series, with neck in coil cut (pretty dark if both PU's are in full-HB)
- Phase, with PU's linked in series (much more useful than when they're linked in parallel, which is pretty weak)

These are in addition to the normal 3 full-HB sounds (bridge, neck, bridge + neck). That's 10 useable sounds which is pretty versatile. Plus, it's set up for independent volume controls, so you can blend how much of each PU's volume you want when they're both on together. Lots more possibilities there.

There's diagrams online, and a lot of players have wired this in their guitars. You can probably buy pre-wired drop-in pots.
 
Re: Skinner Burst Pups- How to phase reverse and related questions

Yep, ultimately customer's choice... Waiting to see what they decide and will let you know.

Thanks all.

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Re: Skinner Burst Pups- How to phase reverse and related questions

blueman335 said:
For additional sounds, I'd recommend the Jimmy Page 4 push-pull system, that gives 21 sounds.
Click to expand...

Thanks Blueman, the JP 4 pull is great and have used it a lot-But at best we're going to have one 4 wire pup, so we're going to have to pick and chose-

Combos that seem most likely are listed above, but somewhat challenging to control, for example-

Out of phase could be one pull which would allow other pulls to add HOOP or series, but requires 2 simulations pulls for anything other than phase and that is probably the least desirable sound (don't get me wrong I do love the early FMac sound).

Looking at the 6 way freeway switch as an alternative to create some of these combos with one move.

But bass cut is extremely useful on Les Pauls to thin out the mud for intricate rhythms or over crunched sounds and that one's easy with a pull.

Will let you guys know where we're going when we hear back from the client-
Thanks again for great input!
Z
 
Re: Skinner Burst Pups- How to phase reverse and related questions

Client has given ok.

4 weeks until pup comes back and open to other wiring ideas while we're waiting.

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Re: Skinner Burst Pups- How to phase reverse and related questions

More than likely, you'll lose value on it. I cut 2 inches off leads of a Magellan bridge (JB's first set w/ Seymour) and I lost some value on the entire set. People who buy these JB sets can be particular.


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Re: Skinner Burst Pups- How to phase reverse and related questions

YeRedHouseOverYonder said:
More than likely, you'll lose value on it. I cut 2 inches off leads of a Magellan bridge (JB's first set w/ Seymour) and I lost some value on the entire set. People who buy these JB sets can be particular.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Yep, shorter leads reduce value, but that also wasn't a SD custom mod... Either way, it's the client' s call.

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Re: Skinner Burst Pups- How to phase reverse and related questions

Great timing Artie, haven't sent them yet... I know nothing about this mod, but it is switchable? If so, can you point me to a diagram?

Much appreciated!
M

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