SL59 little 59 - feedback problems

[FrankB]

I exchanged the SC pickup in the neck position of my Hamer Chaparral by a little 59. One reason for that was my expectations that this is a way to reduce feedback problems of distorted sounds.

Due to that point the results were totally disappointing. The little 59 although it is wired as a humbucker (and not splitted) causes the same feedback level as the SC Hamer pickup (made by DiMarzio). What is more the output level of the Hamer SC is higher than the level of the little 59.

Here is my question:
Is this normal for a little 59 or must there something wrong with the wiring? I have checked the wiring more than once and cannot find a mistake.

 

[Artie]

Re: SL59 little 59 - feedback problems

A humbucker doesn't prevent feedback. In fact, it may make it worse. A humbucker suppresses 60hz hum, and RF noise. Feedback is an acoustic coupling from the speaker to the coils, which may be microphonic. Twin coils have twice the feedback potential of a single.

Although, a Lil 59 should be wound pretty tight. I'm not sure what to tell you to help prevent feedback. Hopefully, someone with more "live" experience will chime in.

 

[hareek]

Re: SL59 little 59 - feedback problems

I have a little 59 in my bridge postion on my strat and when i play through my TSL 100, whether my volume on the guitar is on 10 or on 0, i get this high pitched squeel and the only way to make it go away is to either cut the level on my lead channel back or switch to my clean channel.....does that sound like the same problem your having?

 

[Mephis]

Re: SL59 little 59 - feedback problems

Try muting the strings with your palm and controling the feedback, playing with less gain, or playing with less volume.

 

[FrankB]

Re: SL59 little 59 - feedback problems

Thanks for your answers so far!

What I have not mentioned before is that I compare the little 59 with a TB6 which is also in my guitar in the bridge position. Of course at high distorsion volumes the TB6 also causes feedback but it is much less temperamental than the little 59.

In other words I have the impression that the little 59 reacts more than a singlecoil than a humbucker and this is surprising for me.

 

[ErikH]

Re: SL59 little 59 - feedback problems

I've used the Little '59 a lot both live and just at home. No feed back at all. It's dead quiet. Even through my 100 watt Marshall up half way there is nothing, until I hit the strings. Something else must be wrong.

How much gain do you play with (reference a comparative band)?

 

[FrankB]

Re: SL59 little 59 - feedback problems

I cannot compare that with another band.

The problem becomes evident when playing my Mesa DC 5 Combo at a gain level of 6 - 8 (Lead channel) and a master volume of 1.5 or higher.

I still think that there must be something wrong with the soldering. Just look at this mess:

It is caused by an additional Sustaniac-PU which makes everything much more difficult:

Both humbuckers are connected indirctely to a push-pull-pot and despite the fact that I studied several schematics and tried different ways of connecting, I still think that there is someting wrong. For the TB6 the connecting seems to be O.K. now. The little 59 is connected in the same way, but despite that it seems to be wrong.

Of course it is difficult to comment on that.

 

[ErikH]

Re: SL59 little 59 - feedback problems

I'm wondering if it is because of the Sustaniac sitting right next to it like that. You essentially have 4 coils on at once there with the Sustaniac engaged while the Little '59 is engaged. Check and see if the Sustaniac is on when you want it off. Those things will go nuts sometimes.

 

[FrankB]

Re: SL59 little 59 - feedback problems

The Sustaniac is activated by a mini-switch and it works always only in combination with the bridge Humbucker. This is independant from the position of the 5-way-selector.

As you may know the Sustaniac is not a real pickup but more than a relativly strong magnet (as far as the GA-1 system is concerned)

So I think that it is impossible that the Sustaniac and the little 59 works both at the same time.


My assumption is that my little 59 works currently only as a single coil caused by a wrong connection. When I compare it´s humbucker sound with the sound of the split mode it is hard (or let´s say almost impossible) to hear any significant difference. Is this normal of a little 59?

 

[ErikH]

Re: SL59 little 59 - feedback problems

You should hear a difference from split to normal. Check the wiring. Red and white soldered together and covered with tape, back is hot lead to the switch, green and bare are ground.

If the Sustaniac is activated by it's own switch, then it should theoretically work with any pickup, especially since it's independent of the 5-way.

The strength of the magnet in it could be interfering with the Little '59 which sounds to me like it's in split mode. I've split mine before and it didn't feed back either. That's why I'm thinking the Sustaniac is a factor.

 

[FrankB]

Re: SL59 little 59 - feedback problems

Thanks ErikH for your help so far.

I checked the wiring once again but I cannot find the mistake.

Because of this I have made a diagram to illustrate how I did the wiring (see attachment).

I suppose that something with the ground wires is wrong, expecially the connections with the push-pull-pot.

It would be nice if someone can have a look at the diagram and give me a hint.

 

[Artie]

Re: SL59 little 59 - feedback problems

Hey Frank; I don't see anything seriously wrong, but there are a couple of items that might be "typo's". You have your "split" function wired so that the Lil 59 and TB6 are split when the push-pull pot is down, rather than up. That is, you have to lift the knob to make them humbuckers. Is that what you intended?

Also, you don't show a cap on the tone control. I assume you just left it out of the drawing. If its actually not there, your tone control won't work properly.

The last thing is, I just don't know what that Sustaniac does, so I don't know if the wiring in that "pic-block" is correct or not.

Artie

 

[FrankB]

Re: SL59 little 59 - feedback problems

You have your "split" function wired so that the Lil 59 and TB6 are split when the push-pull pot is down, rather than up. That is, you have to lift the knob to make them humbuckers. Is that what you intended?
Artie

Of course my intention is that the humbuckers are activated when the nob is down. But is it really correct that I then have to sold the ground wires to the pins above the middle-pins? I have no idea how the pot is constructed inside, but this would make no sense from my point of view.


What I definitely do not know is that it is corret to use one pin of the upper horizontal row for connecting the ground wires. Can I do so?

Also, you don't show a cap on the tone control. I assume you just left it out of the drawing. If its actually not there, your tone control won't work properly.

Artie

I left the cap out.

The last thing is, I just don't know what that Sustaniac does, so I don't know if the wiring in that "pic-block" is correct or not.

Artie

The Sustaniac is able to make a kind of endless feedback comparable with an e-bow-effect. You may know / remember Steven Stevens (Billy Idol guitarist). He made this effect popular in the late 80ties. Before I exchanged the neck and the bridge pickup everything inside was unchanged. I guess that I did the new wiring in the same way.

 

[Robert S.]

Re: SL59 little 59 - feedback problems

Hey Frank, a question first.

Have you tried your amp with another guitar? If you have squealing/feedback with different guitars through the same amp then I'd guess a bad preamp tube first. Since both pickups feedback I'd suspect an amp issue first.

The lil59 is normally a loud (for its size) humbucker without noise or feedback issues. I have one in the neck of my strat and even under the very loud and high gained tones I can pull from my Mesa rack I have no noise/feedback issues.

Having a big magnet, possible phased magnet next to the lil59 might cause problems and that may very well be the cause of the output drop. I'm not a physics expert but if another magnet was interfering with the magnetic field of the lil59 I could see that happening. Radio antennas use phasing to direct RF tranmissions so it may be possible

 

[Artie]

Re: SL59 little 59 - feedback problems

Of course my intention is that the humbuckers are activated when the nob is down. But is it really correct that I then have to sold the ground wires to the pins above the middle-pins? I have no idea how the pot is constructed inside, but this would make no sense from my point of view.

The way the switch works, (which is independent of the pot), is that middle pins connect to the bottom pins when "down", and upper pins when "up".
Just move the wires that are on the bottom pins up to the upper pins. Leave the middle connections alone. Problem solved.

btw - you need the cap for the tone control to work. The cap is what makes it a tone control.

 

[FrankB]

Re: SL59 little 59 - feedback problems

Have you tried your amp with another guitar? If you have squealing/feedback with different guitars through the same amp then I'd guess a bad preamp tube first. Since both pickups feedback I'd suspect an amp issue first.

The lil59 is normally a loud (for its size) humbucker without noise or feedback issues. I have one in the neck of my strat and even under the very loud and high gained tones I can pull from my Mesa rack I have no noise/feedback issues.

That is a legitimate question. Because of the fact that I have next Tuesday the first gig with my actual band, I have tried already everything. The feedback occurs significantly only when using the little 59. The TB6 is O.K and my other guitar (a Strat with SD JB and Lace Sensors) is also O.K. Nevertheless I exchanged the power tubes and the V1 preamp tube of my Mesa just to make a try.

It is interesting what you write about the output level of the little 59. Right now it is not louder than the DiMarzio SC in the middle position, although the little 59 is much closer to the strings.

 

[FrankB]

Re: SL59 little 59 - feedback problems

The way the switch works, (which is independent of the pot), is that middle pins connect to the bottom pins when "down", and upper pins when "up".
Just move the wires that are on the bottom pins up to the upper pins. Leave the middle connections alone. Problem solved.

.

Thank you for your new answer, I will try that. In the meantime I have found this which confims your advice:

http://www.christianmusicweb.com/Guitar_wiring.html

 

[Bman1969er]

Re: SL59 little 59 - feedback problems

Hey FrankB,

Not sure if this helps but a number of years ago, installed a Little 59er in my Tele.

Sure enought, the damn thing squealed with feedback at moderate gain and volume levels.

Tried several things that didn't work.

As under warranty, the shop that I bought the pu from took it out and obtained a replacement a week later. Voila, feedback issues gone! It was the pickup itself.

Cheers
Bman

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: SL59 little 59 - feedback problems

I'm wondering if it is because of the Sustaniac sitting right next to it like that. You essentially have 4 coils on at once there with the Sustaniac engaged while the Little '59 is engaged. Check and see if the Sustaniac is on when you want it off. Those things will go nuts sometimes.

Me too. The Sustaniac has a powerful magnetic field...right? Sound slike the other pickup you had in there right next to it fed back too.

I think that's your problem: the Sustaniac is inducing noise and some sort of noisy interaction with whatever pickup you have right next to it like that.

Just a guess though!

Lew

 

[thucydides]

Re: SL59 little 59 - feedback problems

Killer thread!:smokin: