Slayer's Kerry King string tension confusion

JB_From_Hell said:
I have no patience for Slayer-bashers that call themselves metal heads. Everything about that band is vital to everything that came after it.

At the risk of sounding political, it would be like if some Uber-patriot said, “I think the Founding Fathers are pretty overrated.” :)
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So you have to buy in on Kerry King being able to play guitar in order to like Slayer? I Think the band is great for what it is. It was crucial in a movement of music and there is no doubting or questioning that. That fact that they peaked in 1987 and haven't written anything truly notable since Seasons in the Abyss isn't anybody's fault. It simply is what it is. :) Back in the days of their prime they were an immense force live. Heck, I have always enjoyed them live but that still doesn't mean Kerry King can play guitar. Jeff and Gary are a million miles ahead of him when it comes to talent.
 
Just for the record: I LOVE Slayer. They are the cornerstone and root of multiple metal genres and my teenage faves together with Metallica and Megadeth. But being a flawless player doesn't equal great band or great music and playing in a great or innovative band doesn't mean that the band members are flawless masters of the instrument, nor is it required. Kerry King or Lars Ulrich proves my point. There is so much more to being a visionary innovator than being a great player. I did not mean it as bashing. There are thousands of 5 year old asians playing better than King or Hetfield or Mustaine. But they don't have the vision and creativity of those, so we won't hear about those great asian players in a few weeks from now, yet I'll alqays shriek with foaming mouth in a white eyed trance whenenver I hear Angel of Death or War Ensmble, even 30 years from now.
 
Bogner said:
So you have to buy in on Kerry King being able to play guitar in order to like Slayer? I Think the band is great for what it is. It was crucial in a movement of music and there is no doubting or questioning that. That fact that they peaked in 1987 and haven't written anything truly notable since Seasons in the Abyss isn't anybody's fault. It simply is what it is. :) Back in the days of their prime they were an immense force live. Heck, I have always enjoyed them live but that still doesn't mean Kerry King can play guitar. Jeff and Gary are a million miles ahead of him when it comes to talent.
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Yeah. It's weird how some metal fans can't take any kind of criticism of their guitar heroes and seem to espouse the same herd thinking the genre is supposed to oppose. I'm a big Slayer fan. Have been for decades. Seen them live plenty of times. I'm not going to dig on Kerry King's playing, because I certainly couldn't get up there and play all those songs at that speed with that precision. And I will opine that from Seasons on, he was the better of the two when it came to leads. His leads were actually melodic at times, not just the "horses whinnying" whammy bar stuff. But as a songwriter, he was markedly inferior to Hanneman. It's not even a question. Jeff knew how to put dynamics into his songs. He wasn't just about the speed. And riff-wise, his worst days were still better than 90% of what King wrote.

I like a lot of Slayer's post-Seasons stuff, by the way. World Painted Blood was great, so was Christ Illusion. Everyone hates Diabolus In Musica but I will go to bat for that album every time. I think music fans tend to equate "music that was made after my formative years" with "bad music" automatically. ;)
 
nexion218 said:
Just for the record: I LOVE Slayer. They are the cornerstone and root of multiple metal genres and my teenage faves together with Metallica and Megadeth. But being a flawless player doesn't equal great band or great music and playing in a great or innovative band doesn't mean that the band members are flawless masters of the instrument, nor is it required. Kerry King or Lars Ulrich proves my point. There is so much more to being a visionary innovator than being a great player. I did not mean it as bashing. There are thousands of 5 year old asians playing better than King or Hetfield or Mustaine. But they don't have the vision and creativity of those, so we won't hear about those great asian players in a few weeks from now, yet I'll alqays shriek with foaming mouth in a white eyed trance whenenver I hear Angel of Death or War Ensmble, even 30 years from now.
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Agreed. Let's be real: there are tons of young players today who could play King, Hanneman, Mustaine, and Hetfield under the table. And that's a good thing! Things change, generations evolve. But being able to play like a mofo doesn't necessarily mean you can write songs. Some players are virtuosos, some are songwriters first. It's all good. We need every type of musician.
 
Bogner said:
So you have to buy in on Kerry King being able to play guitar in order to like Slayer?
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No, not at all what I said. Kerry’s obviously not a virtuoso lead player, but I think anybody who craps on his rhythm chops is objectively wrong.

The last show I saw prior to shutdown was Slayer’s farewell tour. I’d never seen them prior to that, but there was absolutely nothing wrong with their late-2019 performance.

And really... I don’t think I’d want to hear anything but the whammy-wank fest leads in their songs. That’s as much a part of it as Tom’s vocals and that chunky JCM800 tone.
 
Hey, if whammy-bar leads are your thing, knock yourself out. They fit Slayer to a tee on Reign In Blood, but there's only so many times I can hear that same solo over different songs before I lose interest. You can definitely see King's lead playing improve from South of Heaven to Seasons. I believe he actually took lessons and put in some work at that time to improve his playing. Some of his solos on Seasons are excellent: fast, but they tell a musical story.
 
I think a lot of folks would be surprised if they worked at their picking/playing speed/stamina how quickly it can improve. Its like anything else, use it or lose it and you can easily get yourself into "playing shape" in a reasonable amount of time. Every artist/player has to if they take any time off. On another note, Slayer is playing the type of music they play. it is their music. Fast playing is supposedly their thing right? Tight and fast should be their familiar place because it is what they do. I say all this to say if you played like Slayer or were in Slayer it shouldn't be an issue to play that tempo because that is most likely the most familiar thing to do for you as a player.

Anyway, I think Kerry King is a hack, I am a big fan of Slayer, I have all their albums and have seen them numerous times, I think after Seasons they dropped off. As fast and sloppy as they played, I enjoy a lot of their slower paced songs. Their energy and intensity was far more impressive than their speed (to me). Great live band, especially in their prime.
 
Bogner said:
Anyway, I think Kerry King is a hack
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Kerry King wrote Black Magic and Hell Awaits, arguably the band's #2 and #3 most important songs (behind Angel of Death, of course). Calling him a hack just because of the silly jock-ish image he's put forth in the last 20 years is shortsighted.
 
You gotta give King credit for the satanic image Slayer's been strongly associated with all these years...lol. If it weren't for King the producer would've picked Testament for the Big 4 tour.
 
Cynical said:
Kerry King wrote Black Magic and Hell Awaits, arguably the band's #2 and #3 most important songs (behind Angel of Death, of course). Calling him a hack just because of the silly jock-ish image he's put forth in the last 20 years is shortsighted.
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I don't agree with his view of King, but his comments have nothing to do with King's image. He's talking about King's guitar playing.
 
Cynical said:
Kerry King wrote Black Magic and Hell Awaits, arguably the band's #2 and #3 most important songs (behind Angel of Death, of course). Calling him a hack just because of the silly jock-ish image he's put forth in the last 20 years is shortsighted.
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Just because the guy wrote 2 songs you find amazing doesn't equate to him being a proper guitar player which is what I am referring to.
 
^ Yeah well your proper guitarists can't improvise 4 part fugues like Bach so maybe they suck.
 
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"proper guitar player"


Honestly that does NOT sound like something Kerry or Jeff were going for with Slayer.
Improper guitar players have more fun!,,,,,,like blonds yaknow!


IMO their leads and solos from South to Divine were indeed divine.
The live dvd from the Divine tour really does good at showing both of the masters fret-workings up close. It stays still sometimes so you can really appreciate their skill back then.

I absolutely love the great solo technical shredders like Satch, Vai, Tony, Marty, and newer guys also like Andy James and of course Chris Broderick, but I would not call them anymore "proper" than Kerry or Jeff, or James and Kirk, or you nor even myself.

IMO:
"The best musicians are those that can most splendidly impart whatever moods or emotions they intend to convey with their composition and performance."
 
Clint 55 said:
^ Yeah well your proper guitarists can't improvise 4 part fugues like Bach so maybe they suck.
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Alex Skolnick... Guthrie Govan...Malmsteen...Kiko Loureiro...Chris Broderick...Dave Davidson...Satriani...Vai.... Conan Gonzalez. Just a few from my list of "proper players" who could most definitely pull it off. And a shitton of others who we don't even know by the name. Well maybe Davidson and Skolnick are too much of a jazz cats, but hey...

I once had a conversation in a bar with this random guy about guitar players:

"Ooooh, do you know Slash? He's the best guitar player in the entire world!" he goes.
"Oh yeah? What makes you think so?" I asked
""Cuz he plays in Guns, he's my fave playa and whenever he gets a new guitar he disassemles and reassembles it"

I told him to get a set of screwdrivers and allen wrenches to facilitate his journey in becoming just as good as Slash then ended the conversation.

I really don't undersand why people have a hard time admiting that their idols or childhood heroes are not perfect or invincible. King is a mediocre player at best on the list of guitar gods, especially by today's standards. Does it change how instrumental he was in creating the band and a bunch of sub-genres.? Absolutely not! He is and will be a guitar god for a very long time. He's just not necessarily on the list for his capabilities as a guitarist, but rather for his creativity, his unque style and musical vision. Sure, he can be tight and precise, no way you play and records Slayer-like music while being sloppy. But go ask him about improvising those 4 part fugues (btw I think that improvisation is much more about theory than guitar playing, but whatever...).

Hetfield himself admitted once that the reason why you don't see them jam with virtuoso musicians is that they are not comfortable, not confident enough in their skills to keep up with a virtuoso. Does that strip them from their guitar/music/metal god status? Nothing will ever take that away from those guys. Or does his participation on several classic records make Kirk Hammett an excellent player? He is extremely sloppy, especially live. I still love the guy's playing to death. But the fact that he plays in one of my fave bands doesn't erase his flaws and weaknesses.

But long story short: we don't have to agree to everything, do we? :D
 
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