Slipping Sperzel tuners, Amy remedy?

[PFDarkside]

I’ve got a guitar with Sperzel tuners that always is slipping flat. Far worse than my Schaller/Fender locking tuners and worse than vintage and modern style non-locking tuners.

1. Is there some process for Sperzels that is different than Schallers? I just pull the string through, tighten the lock and tune to pitch.

2. Is there any adjustment or change I can make to them to stop the slipping? High E at .010 is the worst, but they all tend to go a little flat, I wonder if it’s the post rotating against tension? Can they be tightened?

 

[jeremy]

never had that issue and i have sperzels on a half dozen guitars. obviously, new strings stretch but past that, i havent had any slippage. not sure if they can be tightened cause ive never had the issue. id have to open one up to see whats in there

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I'm the opposite as jeremy. I've never thought Sperzels were all that great to begin with, personally

 

[trevorus]

I would do the counterbend through the tuner hole like you might with normal tuners. That might help lock it in a little better.

 

[ICTGoober]

It's not the tuners. It's something else. The intonation is off either because the action is too high at the nut, too high at the bridge, or the intonation hasn't been set. In 45 years at the bench it's been the tuners maybe 3 times.

 

[Securb]

never had that issue and i have sperzels on a half dozen guitars. obviously, new strings stretch but past that, i havent had any slippage. not sure if they can be tightened cause ive never had the issue. id have to open one up to see whats in there

Same here I have them on at least 4 or 5 guitars and have never had a problem. They are my go-to tuners. now.

 

[PFDarkside]

It's not the tuners. It's something else. The intonation is off either because the action is too high at the nut, too high at the bridge, or the intonation hasn't been set. In 45 years at the bench it's been the tuners maybe 3 times.

Well, the guitar is in tune, it sits for a while and then the high E is flat. So it’s not the action or intonation. I doubt the nut is binding so badly that the length between the nut and tuner is below tension and finally releases it over the course of a few days.

These we’re not new to me, they came on a guitar I acquired second hand. What else can I do to isolate the tuner as ok or an issue?

 

[ICTGoober]

I assume you are tuning to standard? Brand of strings? Is it unwinding at the ball end? I still maintain the intonation is off somewhere.

 

[trevorus]

I have some Schaller tuners that the B string always slips. I’ve swapped the retainer pin with the high E (staggered tuners, 3 different lengths), and it is the one that always seems to slip for me. The string will just slide out no matter how hard I twist the locking knob. So, I’ve taken to giving a bit of extra wrap on that string for keeping it secure, or running the string through the hole twice.

An intonation problem won’t suddenly crop up with the same strings. How I usually test if it’s the tuner slipping is just pulling pretty firmly once near pitch to see if it’s going to slip out.

 

[PFDarkside]

I assume you are tuning to standard? Brand of strings? Is it unwinding at the ball end? I still maintain the intonation is off somewhere.

Yes standard tuning. I believe these were Elixir Nanoweb 10-46. How much would have to slip through the lock to drop by a quarter step?

I was thinking that maybe the ball end was pressing into the brass block but the ball ends released extremely easily. Also, I have no doubt that the intonation may be slightly off. But I mean a string losing it’s tuning over the course of a few days. I tune up and everything is fine, then three days later it has dropped in pitch. My guitars with other tuning machines don’t do this, they may slightly drift with weather but this is a a decent drop in pitch. I’ll add photos of the strings and block.

 

[PFDarkside]

[No message]

 

[PFDarkside]

I have some Schaller tuners that the B string always slips. I’ve swapped the retainer pin with the high E (staggered tuners, 3 different lengths), and it is the one that always seems to slip for me. The string will just slide out no matter how hard I twist the locking knob. So, I’ve taken to giving a bit of extra wrap on that string for keeping it secure, or running the string through the hole twice.

An intonation problem won’t suddenly crop up with the same strings. How I usually test if it’s the tuner slipping is just pulling pretty firmly once near pitch to see if it’s going to slip out.

Yes, that’s how it seems. I haven’t don’t the “pull” test to see how far it drops. I’m restringing, cleaning and setting intonation now so we’ll see if a fresh set of strings is better. (I recall it happening with at least one other set of strings on this guitar in the past)

 

[ICTGoober]

"Slaps forehead"...

It could be a tiny bit of string in the hole between the pin and the string. Have you taken it apart, or opened it enough to blow through?

 

[PFDarkside]

"Slaps forehead"...

It could be a tiny bit of string in the hole between the pin and the string. Have you taken it apart, or opened it enough to blow through?

I’ll do that tonight. It’s getting a cleaning, restring and setup.

 

[Mincer]

Yeah, I never had a problem with mine, either. So, I don't think it is they way they make them- the process of stringing is the same as Schallers and Hipshots. Check the nut, too, as strings can bind there and release, adding to the tuning issues.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

I might swap the B and G string tuners, to see if that tuner still gives you a problem when it's on the G.

 

[PFDarkside]

Well I didn’t see any thing odd, I strung up, stretched and tuned and intonated. I think was actually 9s before and it’s got 10s now. Overnight it held tune, so we’ll see. Also I cleaned up the whole neck and body, polished the frets, etc. I kind of forgot how awesome a clean, oiled neck is.

Also interestingly, the frets have a really broad crown. I guess that means they last longer but I think I prefer a a more narrow profile. Still this is an awesome guitar, I hope it was just user error and it didn’t have the locking wheel tight enough.

 

[ICTGoober]

Wide frets can affect the intonation adversely. A level and recrown would help immensely, I bet.

 

[NegativeEase]

It's not the tuners. It's something else. The intonation is off either because the action is too high at the nut, too high at the bridge, or the intonation hasn't been set. In 45 years at the bench it's been the tuners maybe 3 times.

Totally Agree. Sperzells are likely not the issue -they are machined to a tolerance much better than most tuners which is why they can outperform a 18:1 or 20:1 machine head only using a 13:1 ratio on tuners.

My advice is look for pinching and binding in the slot and saddle AND the stability of the bridge and guitar first -in my experience -its that almost all of the time.

Also, if it is actually suspected to be Sperzell -contact them -they are straight up good people.... you will talk to one of the Sperzell family likley.

 

[PFDarkside]

Totally Agree. Sperzells are likely not the issue -they are machined to a tolerance much better than most tuners which is why they can outperform a 18:1 or 20:1 machine head only using a 13:1 ratio on tuners.

My advice is look for pinching and binding in the slot and saddle AND the stability of the bridge and guitar first -in my experience -its that almost all of the time.

Also, if it is actually suspected to be Sperzell -contact them -they are straight up good people.... you will talk to one of the Sperzell family likley.

Its not the nut. The amount of tension mismatch to drop a half step on a high e string would be huge. A minute turn of the tuning head gives an equivalent small change in pitch. The bridge is an older brass Strat style that is decked with 5 springs. The saddles, other than a little surface discoloration are in good shape. I posted a pic of the block, I don’t think it’s the ball ends being smushed into the block.

Lets see what happens this time around.