So I decided to give the Revv G4 another chance...

[nexion218]

...and it still hasn't convinced me.It's my second rodeo with it and the experience is the same. the only reason I'll probably keep it is that I now have some pieces of gear with which it might actually work. For the record: this time I tried using it purely as a preamp (as it was meant to be according to Revv), with a 6L6 poweramp simulation and official Revv 412 IR in my Torpedo CAB M+.

here are my thoughts, curious what you guys think, especially those of you who own it:

1: This is a mid gain pedal at best in my book. It is too much and too little at the same time. With RED aggression, gain between 3 o'clock and almost dimed, it starts to get decently angry, but the low/low-mid gets way too much. Below that its AC/DC territory. Which is cool, but not high gain.

2: It rocks with EMGs. Night and day,.it's like a different pedal when I plug in a guitar with the EMGs and in a very good sense. Especially with my 7 string E-II horizon, which is a particularly bright guitar, even in A standard. Tight, thick and finally a decent amount of gain. In fact this is the best sound I got out of that E-II since I've had it. But with passives, I think it's borderline useless for high gain stuff. Get this: my Nazgul in E standard is flubby and farty with this one. Yes, that tight, ice picky, one trick pony of a pickup is farting and I can dime the Treble pot of the pedal without bleeding ears...


3: This thing is EXTREMELY sensitive to picking dynamics. It can go from crap to almost tight enough just by changing how hard I pick. Which is cool, but it doesn't make it high gain. I mean, you can slash the speakers of your Twin Reverb to distort, but it won't make it a high gain amp, will it? If I don't pick with all my might, the low stuff becomes grainy and farty with passives, again backing up what I said above: this is not a "gain monster" as advertised. which leads me to 4:

4: For my taste, it will need a boost with passive pickups. I only have a DS-1 at hand which is a bit too much to be used as a proper boost, but I was curious. It instantly tightened things up, opened the gain-gates and then it's a whole different ballgame. It's still thick, but finally doesn't have that broken amp/speaker fartfest going on.

All in all I'll be able to get some great toanz out of it, but I still think this pedal is overhyped and ridiculously overpriced. Very amplike behavior whith the dynamic sensitivity, yes, but definitely not "modern high gain". There is a cool "rudeness" in the lower mids, but that doesn't make it.high gain for me. In my opinion it doesn't hold a candle to the Friendman BE-OD or the Black Cat Djenttonic. Those things are plug'n' play awesomeness, cost a fraction of the G4's price and don't need a boost to produce high gain...

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Honestly, yeah, I'm not surprised it would need a boost. The red channel on the Revv stuff is sorta meant to be an Uberschall/Rectifier kinda broad sound. It's the purple channel (G3) that's supposed to be the tighter, more focused voicing.

I am surprised it's not like blisteringly high gain, though. For the modern tightness factor? Sure, a boost doesn't seem that farfetched. But for high-gain, I think that's either a design flaw or maybe even a faulty unit. Who knows. Never tried one myself.

And yeah, I'm always amazed at other manufacturares who don't just skip the in-front-of-the-amp voicing altogether, and make their high-gain pedals full-on preamps. At least the more modern-voiced pedals. I mean, after all, are there many people who attempt to play blistering high-gain into Fender Twins? Plexis? Vox AC30's? Bassmans?

 

[nexion218]

Honestly, yeah, I'm not surprised it would need a boost. The red channel on the Revv stuff is sorta meant to be an Uberschall/Rectifier kinda broad sound.

Which is not a bad thing, but why market something with such blatantly untrue claims? And why don't I see anyone calling them out on this? I've found like maybe two little known YT channels who said that while these are definitely cool pedals, but maybe not the next best thing since sliced bread like every other (probably paid) demo claims them to be. I just feel bad for all those people, who (like me for the first time) read the raving comments (are those paid for too?), believe the PR BS, watch Ola Englund's demo and cherry pick a couple other big channels who make everything they feature sound great and fall flat on their face when they plug in their new 230 USD toy.. I mean, not even Gibson can make the haters disappear, how does Revv do it?

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I've never tried Revv products myself. I do like the Revv models in my Helix, but that would be like saying I like pizza because I once saw a picture of it.

But they do seem to be one of the ongoing YouTube trends. Very marketing-driven.

 

[El Dunco]

Sounds like you want the G3. My friend has the full Revv Generator with KT88s and purple as absolutey where it’s at for tight metal, no boosts needed.

Check out this review on the G3 vs G4.

I have all three pedals. G3 is insanely awesome and does a super tight 6505/SLO-ish type of thing, G4 is "bigger" and does a sort of looser Recto type of thing. There is some overlap between them and both can be used to effectively do the same things TBH. The G3 would cut through in a live situation like a knife, the G4 is a bit "spongier" and just a total wall of sound if there ever was such a thing. The G3 has lots of mids, the G4 isn't lacking mids but it's way more big bass/treble.

I like both...sort of like the G4 more when playing alone, but the G3 is maybe the better of the two when playing in a mix and cuts like mad. G4 is better at lower and mid gain tones...G3 is just straight hard rock and metal but a certain type of it. G4 can be "bigger and heavier" than the G3 though, but it won't get as "tight" for the super modern djenty stuff that people love the G3 for.

 

[nexion218]

Sounds like you want the G3. My friend has the full Revv Generator with KT88s and purple as absolutey where it’s at for tight metal, no boosts needed.

Check out this review on the G3 vs G4.

Awesome, glad to hear I'm not st00pid afterall! I do have my tight fields covered with the BE-OD and the Djenttonic, so I was willingly going after the "Recto" thing to have something different. It's the lack of gain that baffles me with the G4. And everyone says the G4 has more gain than the G3, so that makes me even less interested in the G3... But it's the same people saying that say the G4 is a "hi-gain monster".. D At least your friend agrees with me that it is not..

 

[El Dunco]

Awesome, glad to hear I'm not st00pid afterall! I do have my tight fields covered with the BE-OD and the Djenttonic, so I was willingly going after the "Recto" thing to have something different. It's the lack of gain that baffles me with the G4. And everyone says the G4 has more gain than the G3, so that makes me even less interested in the G3... But it's the same people saying that say the G4 is a "hi-gain monster".. D At least your friend agrees with me that it is not..

I found the review online. My friend has the full tube head they’re based on. Most people who have one live in purple land for modern rock/metal sounds. Some other reviews say the G4 is more of a “mid gain” compared to the purple.

 

[Top-L]

...and it still hasn't convinced me.It's my second rodeo with it and the experience is the same. the only reason I'll probably keep it is that I now have some pieces of gear with which it might actually work. For the record: this time I tried using it purely as a preamp (as it was meant to be according to Revv), with a 6L6 poweramp simulation and official Revv 412 IR in my Torpedo CAB M+.

here are my thoughts, curious what you guys think, especially those of you who own it:

1: This is a mid gain pedal at best in my book. It is too much and too little at the same time. With RED aggression, gain between 3 o'clock and almost dimed, it starts to get decently angry, but the low/low-mid gets way too much. Below that its AC/DC territory. Which is cool, but not high gain.

2: It rocks with EMGs. Night and day,.it's like a different pedal when I plug in a guitar with the EMGs and in a very good sense. Especially with my 7 string E-II horizon, which is a particularly bright guitar, even in A standard.

I dont have this pedal, but my experience with my Laney Ironheart head is similar. This new generation of amplifier head/pedal are designed for downtuned guitars, longer scale, thicker strings.. that are putting out more voltage than a six string with 9s and passive pickups.

The Ironheart is fixed by putting an SD-1 in front with mild drive, which makes it sound like a 5150ish head.

It would be kinda foolish to put a boost pedal in front of your Revv boost pedal, but at that point might be wise to look for something else. Its probably working as intended.

 

[nexion218]

I dont have this pedal, but my experience with my Laney Ironheart head is similar. This new generation of amplifier head/pedal are designed for downtuned guitars, longer scale, thicker strings.. that are putting out more voltage than a six string with 9s and passive pickups.

The Ironheart is fixed by putting an SD-1 in front with mild drive, which makes it sound like a 5150ish head.

It would be kinda foolish to put a boost pedal in front of your Revv boost pedal, but at that point might be wise to look for something else. Its probably working as intended.

Well, it's not a boost, but a preamp, so boosting it makes sense for me... Tried and true method of getting more out of a preamp. Also, like I said, with EMG57 it rocks.

But great observation on the modern stuff, I think that very well may be the culprit.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I dont have this pedal, but my experience with my Laney Ironheart head is similar. This new generation of amplifier head/pedal are designed for downtuned guitars, longer scale, thicker strings.. that are putting out more voltage than a six string with 9s and passive pickups.

You would be surprised, but I've come acrros MANY passive pickups that have actually been way hotter than actives.

The EMG 57 is hotter, so is the 85, but the 81 is below perceived Duncan Distortion levels. But the voltage they put out is actually way less. It's just that their preamp clips, and it's making it seem like they're hotter that they actually are.

But the X2N, Black Winter, and Gibson 500T out of the top of my head mop the floor in output compared to an EMG. The thing about EMG's that makes them feel and sound hotter than they actually are is a. the preamp clips, b. they're extremely mid-focused.

 

[El Dunco]

You would be surprised, but I've come acrros MANY passive pickups that have actually been way hotter than actives.

The EMG 57 is hotter, so is the 85, but the 81 is below perceived Duncan Distortion levels. But the voltage they put out is actually way less. It's just that their preamp clips, and it's making it seem like they're hotter that they actually are.

But the X2N, Black Winter, and Gibson 500T out of the top of my head mop the floor in output compared to an EMG. The thing about EMG's that makes them feel and sound hotter than they actually are is a. the preamp clips, b. they're extremely mid-focused.

That’s probably why I like the 81 in 18-24 volts. Improved headroom, so no clipping, moderate output and the EQ shape negates the need for an overdrive to tighten things up. Output really isn’t everything with how much gain modern amps have.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Agreed.

I liked my EMG's at 9V's, TBH. I feel they do the EMG thing more that way, LOL. But they changed something in the last few years so that the new ones (and I'm talking like only 2-3 years back, so pretty recently) don't sound like my old ones (which aren't even all that old) at all. I posted a thread about it when I first noticed it.

These days, I think Fishmans do the EMG thing better than EMG's, LOL.

 

[El Dunco]

Agreed.

I liked my EMG's at 9V's, TBH. I feel they do the EMG thing more that way, LOL. But they changed something in the last few years so that the new ones (and I'm talking like only 2-3 years back, so pretty recently) don't sound like my old ones (which aren't even all that old) at all. I posted a thread about it when I first noticed it.

These days, I think Fishmans do the EMG thing better than EMG's, LOL.

Maybe it’s not the EMG thing I like as much as what my EMGs do now with the voltage boost. My 81/89 set is from 2007 but even compared to the latest actives, they’re absolutely perfect how I run them. They cannot be improved. They’ll stay in that guitar as long as I live.

The split 89 is one of the nicest clean tones ever.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

No, yeah, man. I totally get why people do the 24V thing. I made a little harness myself once, and did like it. But ultimately decided against it because there was no way those little batteries could last longer than a HUGE 9V, and they weren't as easy to come across as 9V's. Plus I enjoy the squishy feel and even narrower EQ profile running at 9V. Plus I've been into using rechargeable 9V's, because in the long run, it was cheaper and more eco-friendly, haha. And now that Fishman came up with the voltage-regulated rechargeable pack, it's more relable, and it even also probably sound slightly better compared as to how regular rechargeable or non-rechable batteries sound as the charge is consumed.

And yeah, both modes on the coil-splittable EMG's sound great because they're not just a mere coil split, but rather, two separate pickups inside the actual housing.

 

[El Dunco]

Yeah, two 9v together for 18v seems to be the ideal way. I haven’t had any problems with battery life. Yes, I heard the 89 is both an 85 and an SA when split. Singles are just where it’s at for chimey cleans. That reminds me, when I can am I to deck out my American strar with a blackouts for strar set and report my findings because not enough people use them.

 

[nexion218]

The EMG 57 is hotter, so is the 85, but the 81 is below perceived Duncan Distortion levels. But the voltage they put out is actually way less. It's just that their preamp clips, and it's making it seem like they're hotter that they actually are.

I'm kinda confused with that part... Would you mind elaborating? According to this site ( https://www.electrosmash.com/emg81 ), the output voltage of an 81 is around 1.5 V, whereas according to the pinned measurement experiment of SD pickups Black Winters are well below 1 V (I remember sg lik 80 mV-ish). Which kinda aligns with what I experience with the G4 pedal: EMGs push it way harder, producing more distorting and tightness, whereas even my hottest passives (BW, Nazgul) absolutely suck with it.

Now if you said that most hot passives are actually not as hot as we percieve them to be, I'd absolutely understand that. But I'm kinda consufed by EMGs not always having hotter signal... Arent they already pre-amplified? :bigeyes2:

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I have no actual measurements as in mV or dBu's, but whenever I try recording DI's, hot passives' highest peaks always peak higher in the waveform than EMG's.

I don't have the 500T, X2N Black Winter, or EMG's installed in my guitars right now. But I have Fishmans (which IME are pretty much the same ouptut level as EMG's) and a Quarter Pound 17K-ish single coil in my Esquire. The Quarter Pound is not nearly as hot as the X2N or 500T, but it still peaks higher than the Fishmans. I can try to record something tonight if you need proof.

That's not to say EMG's don't feel hotter than they actually are. And if you try to 18V mod them, their peaks grow higher becuse the preamp isn't clipping (compressing, if you will) as much. So techincally, they do become hotter at 18V, but they really dont feel any hotter. But the reason they feel hotter than they actually technically are at 9V is because when you strum hard, the pickup's preamp itself is distorting a little. Like a very subtle overdrive/boost pedal going on when you strum hard.

You can't tell as much on Fishmans, but on EMG's, it's pretty obvious if you run them in front of a 100% clean channel or even DI's. Strum hard and the pickups get slightly crunchy.

Then again, the way Fishmans and EMG's works is diifferent. The EMG preamp does A LOT of heavy lifting. EMG's have coils not wound super hot, and the magnet is super weak (hence why the recommend to run them super close to the strings). The magnet on Fishmans is just standard full-charge, and the coils, well, they're not really coils, LOL. But in the end, they get close to the same output level. However, sonically, you don't notice the clipping nearly as much on Fishmans.

If you 27V-mod EMG's for maximum headroom, I'd say the 57's peaks would reach higher, then the 85's not far behind, and last, the 81's. But at 9V's, they're all clipping so much, their peaks are all the exact same level because they're all running at 9V, and the preamp's headroom is exactly the same on all the non-X series.

 

[nexion218]

I have no actual measurements as in mV or dBu's, but whenever I try recording DI's, hot passives' highest peaks always peak higher in the waveform than EMG's.

I don't have the 500T, X2N Black Winter, or EMG's installed in my guitars right now. But I have Fishmans (which IME are pretty much the same ouptut level as EMG's) and a Quarter Pound 17K-ish single coil in my Esquire. The Quarter Pound is not nearly as hot as the X2N or 500T, but it still peaks higher than the Fishmans. I can try to record something tonight if you need proof.

That's not to say EMG's don't feel hotter than they actually are. And if you try to 18V mod them, their peaks grow higher becuse the preamp isn't clipping (compressing, if you will) as much. So techincally, they do become hotter at 18V, but they really dont feel any hotter. But the reason they feel hotter than they actually technically are at 9V is because when you strum hard, the pickup's preamp itself is distorting a little. Like a very subtle overdrive/boost pedal going on when you strum hard.

You can't tell as much on Fishmans, but on EMG's, it's pretty obvious if you run them in front of a 100% clean channel or even DI's. Strum hard and the pickups get slightly crunchy.

Then again, the way Fishmans and EMG's works is diifferent. The EMG preamp does A LOT of heavy lifting. EMG's have coils not wound super hot, and the magnet is super weak (hence why the recommend to run them super close to the strings). The magnet on Fishmans is just standard full-charge, and the coils, well, they're not really coils, LOL. But in the end, they get close to the same output level. However, sonically, you don't notice the clipping nearly as much on Fishmans.

If you 27V-mod EMG's for maximum headroom, I'd say the 57's peaks would reach higher, then the 85's not far behind, and last, the 81's. But at 9V's, they're all clipping so much, their peaks are all the exact same level because they're all running at 9V, and the preamp's headroom is exactly the same on all the non-X series.

That was quite comprehensive, thank you. And of course I meant 800mV, not 80mV for the Black Winter.

 

[nexion218]

Though I am not sure I agree/fully understand... I mean, sure, passives may have higher peaks, probably due to lack of compression/clipping from the preamp. But does that translate to an overall hotter signal?

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Though I am not sure I agree/fully understand... I mean, sure, passives may have higher peaks, probably due to lack of compression/clipping from the preamp. But does that translate to an overall hotter signal?

Techincally, yes. Hotter signal on the peaks for any reasonably hot passive like the QP. It means they're capable of producing more output. But in average, probably not, because EMG's waveform is pretty constant. That's why they're considered "compressed", but I think the techincal term is actually "clipped". No way my Quarter Pound feels nearly saturated/gainy as EMG's/Fishmans, you're right. And I guess you can actually see that phoenomenon on the waveforms as well. Quiet playing on EMG's is probably louder than equivalent quiet playing on the Quarter Pound. Hence, you could say, the QP has a greater dynamic range. The peaks are slightly higher, but the valleys are much lower as well.

But in the case of the X2N/Black Winter/500T, IME, I'd say they both feel and technically are hotter. Like, by a lot. Keep in mind, the magnetic structure in those is like MONSTROUS.

Also, where did you find those measurements for output for the BW? Did you measure them yourself? Not doubting you at all, but if you find them published somewhere, no way it's almost twice as hot as the "official" published measurments for the X2N (which are like 500 IIIRC). Duncan mV measurements were published some time ago, but they don't match the DiMarzio measurements AT ALL, so I guess they used different methodology to obtain those measurements.

But IME, the X2N and BW not only sounded and felt pretty close to the same in compression and gaininess, but they also recorded DI's close to the same level. The 500T a bit lower, but still higher than EMG's/Fishmans.