So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

[stuey222]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

Maybe thats a bit why some people don't like that many effects ? Because they don't love everyone. If you've got a great chorus but crappy flange, then I wouldn't blame you for saying you don't like flangers. But when your flanger sounds like you feel it should in your head, when your wah sounds like you've always wanted etc etc, suddenly you got a more the better attitude with effects.

So thats my $.02 in a world where no one values the penny

That's exactly how I feel. I used to be straight plug and play, maybe a wah, but now I'm finding more and more effects that I really like the sound of and they sound like me. Granted I'm not packing 18 pedals, but if that's what it takes to get your sound, that's what you should use. You're still getting a less processed sound then most studio recordings nowadays....

 

[guitarded]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

I usually bring either two Les Paul's or two Strats. The strats have similar pups and so do the les pauls. I dial in my amp for the guitar I am using and the other sits on a stand as a spare. Sometimes I will change if I get real sweated up, but usually not.

On the effects, I use midi program changes to call patches I have programmed into my Rocktron xpression multifx. The midi program changes also switch my amp to the right channel. So I have all the effects available and turn on and off multiple effects with the push of one button.

I used to have singles pedals but it was just too much of a distractions, plus what if you have a killer chorus but need it dialed in one way for one song and another way for a different song...... Do you keep two chorus units dialed in with different settings or do you change the settings between songs?

The only pedals I have are two overdrives. One dialed for my clean channel and one dialed for my dirty channels and a wah pedal. These sit in front of the amp. Ohhh.... also my Boss tuner, but I don't think that counts as an effect

Heres a quick question for those who don't really see the point of a bunch of pedals (nothing wrong with that mind you)

Do you also only like to gig with one or maybe two guitars ?

Theres so many different guitars one can own, and/or different pickups

LP with buckers, LP with P90's, Semi hollow bodys, Strat with singles, Telecasters, acoustics, Superstrat with buckers. Hard tail, TOM's, Floyds, Bigsby's, vintage trem etc etc


What are your views on using lots of different guitars ? If you can argue theres not enough difference to make it worth having a flanger AND a phaser, could you still its worth having say a LP with buckers and a LP with p90's ?

They aren't that different and maybe the audicne wouldn't know the difference right ?

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

There's a lot of practical advice from regular giggers on this thread, along the lines of 'the audience doesn't care' and 'it'll be a ***** to haul'. All very sensible advice that I can totally get behind, from a gigger's perspective.

But this is going to be essentially a home rig. So I say rock out!

-for me, the biggest challenge would be keeping signal degradation and noise down. TB loop strips would come in very handy. I'd like to grab one for myself, though my needs are less. I take between three and five pedals to a gig on a homemade aluminium plate that slots into an old Dell laptop bag. poh-tah-bill.

 

[lpmarshall]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

Ok. I don't know what kind of bypass the DT10 has. My guess is it's not true bypass but that doesn't mean it's not buffered either. No way to really tell without opening it up and tracing it out (major PITA). Better safe you use that looper then. But, if you run a couple 18 foot cables, you might want to put a buffer after the wah, or even before.

I run a 10 footer to the wah and a 20 footer to the amp. I don't have any issues with signal loss that I can tell. I know my Teese Wizard Wah is TB, and I'm pretty sure the DT10 isn't. Anyways, it works just fine for me.

 

[lpmarshall]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

-for me, the biggest challenge would be keeping signal degradation and noise down. TB loop strips would come in very handy. I'd like to grab one for myself, though my needs are less. I take between three and five pedals to a gig on a homemade aluminium plate that slots into an old Dell laptop bag. poh-tah-bill.

Not only signal degradation and noise, but if I have a patch cable go out, there is a lot less troubleshooting. I could plug straight into the amp for a set if needed and skip the wah and tuner until a set break. Then it is easier to test what isn't working between sets.

But if you want 18 pedals, go for it. There are some bands out there that have more than that.

 

[millsart]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

Not only signal degradation and noise, but if I have a patch cable go out, there is a lot less troubleshooting. I could plug straight into the amp for a set if needed and skip the wah and tuner until a set break. Then it is easier to test what isn't working between sets.

But if you want 18 pedals, go for it. There are some bands out there that have more than that.

The cable troubleshooting is sort of one of the reasons why I want to get everything wired up for good. Plugging and unplugging is usually what makes a cable go bad, especially with ones like George L's, Planet Waves or any of soldierless ones. Once everything is secured on the board and wired up, as long as its not being moved or tugged or, it shouldn't have any issues (knock on wood)

 

[ErikH]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

I run a 10 footer to the wah and a 20 footer to the amp. I don't have any issues with signal loss that I can tell. I know my Teese Wizard Wah is TB, and I'm pretty sure the DT10 isn't. Anyways, it works just fine for me.

30 feet of cable. You have signal loss, you just haven't heard it yet.

 

[millsart]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

30 feet of cable. You have signal loss, you just haven't heard it yet.

I personally think signal loss is a bit blown out of proportion these days. Nothing wrong with keeping the tone of your guitar pure, and if thats your goal, more power to you, but one can't ignore the fact that people still got great tones well before TB pedals, active pickups, $100 24K Gold Monster Cable etc.

Take Hendrix for example and those crappy coiled cords he liked. Everyone knows a coiled cord is a compromise yet who's complaining about his tone ? Additionally a peda like his Univibe, it wasn't TB and was basically always engaged and sucked some tone. But he didn't seem to mind and the thousands of people who spend big bucks in a quest for his elusive tone sure don't seem to have minded either.

Point is, perhaps less is more in some cases. Maybe using a crap cable or a long run, a few effects that suck some tone etc actually is part of what gives us our signature sounds to some degree.

Maybe that tone from the guitar is a little too bright and harsh and some of the dreaded tone sucking actually takes just enough off the highs to sound really sweet.

Its totally subjective on a case by case basis so I'm not telling anyone what to do, but simply to USE YOUR EARS, not just your brain.

If it sounds good to you, then its good. Maybe a 100' of GC store brand cable is "your sound", well if it works, then keep jamming with it. know what I'm saying ?

 

[ErikH]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

I personally think signal loss is a bit blown out of proportion these days. Nothing wrong with keeping the tone of your guitar pure, and if thats your goal, more power to you, but one can't ignore the fact that people still got great tones well before TB pedals, active pickups, $100 24K Gold Monster Cable etc.

Take Hendrix for example and those crappy coiled cords he liked. Everyone knows a coiled cord is a compromise yet who's complaining about his tone ? Additionally a peda like his Univibe, it wasn't TB and was basically always engaged and sucked some tone. But he didn't seem to mind and the thousands of people who spend big bucks in a quest for his elusive tone sure don't seem to have minded either.

Point is, perhaps less is more in some cases. Maybe using a crap cable or a long run, a few effects that suck some tone etc actually is part of what gives us our signature sounds to some degree.

Maybe that tone from the guitar is a little too bright and harsh and some of the dreaded tone sucking actually takes just enough off the highs to sound really sweet.

Its totally subjective on a case by case basis so I'm not telling anyone what to do, but simply to USE YOUR EARS, not just your brain.

If it sounds good to you, then its good. Maybe a 100' of GC store brand cable is "your sound", well if it works, then keep jamming with it. know what I'm saying ?

Yes, but back in 1969, they didn't know about any of this stuff. They used what was there. There were no "boutique" makers and buffers and such. Sure, those tones are great, from their hands. Most definitely.

I run close to the same amount of cable as lpmarshall does - 10ft from guitar to pedal and 18ft to the amp. The difference is the pedal I have there is a SD-1 which has buffered bypass so it keeps the signal up back to the amp.

You're right on that some guitars need that little bit of load on them to make them sound better. Sometimes the cheaper cables work better too.

If he's cool with his sound, great, I was just pointing out the fact that there is signal loss there because of no buffer between the guitar and amp along that 30 feet. You're looking at hooking up over a dozen pedals so naturally my first impression is that you're not too concerned about preserving the signal. That's not a slam, just an observation based on the pedals and the quantity.

 

[stuey222]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

Yes, but back in 1969, they didn't know about any of this stuff. They used what was there. There were no "boutique" makers and buffers and such. Sure, those tones are great, from their hands. Most definitely.

I run close to the same amount of cable as lpmarshall does - 10ft from guitar to pedal and 18ft to the amp. The difference is the pedal I have there is a SD-1 which has buffered bypass so it keeps the signal up back to the amp.

You're right on that some guitars need that little bit of load on them to make them sound better. Sometimes the cheaper cables work better too.

If he's cool with his sound, great, I was just pointing out the fact that there is signal loss there because of no buffer between the guitar and amp along that 30 feet. You're looking at hooking up over a dozen pedals so naturally my first impression is that you're not too concerned about preserving the signal. That's not a slam, just an observation based on the pedals and the quantity.

He's got a few Boss pedals, and his last pedal is the Space Echo, so those are buffered, right?

 

[lpmarshall]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

30 feet of cable. You have signal loss, you just haven't heard it yet.

I've plugged straight in to compare, and there isn't any audible difference. I'm using Mogami cable on both sides, so I'm not skimping there.

It works for me, so it doesn't really matter.

 

[ErikH]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

He's got a few Boss pedals, and his last pedal is the Space Echo, so those are buffered, right?

Yes, those help.

I've plugged straight in to compare, and there isn't any audible difference. I'm using Mogami cable on both sides, so I'm not skimping there.

It works for me, so it doesn't really matter.

My 10 footer is a Mogami too. Great cables. My 18 footer is a Spectraflex. If it works for you, cool. Was just pointing out what might be there (or not...lol). No harm no foul.

 

[vladmarr]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

there's a limit on Peals now?! i never got the memo! JK lol

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

Limits, and religious bypasses are in high order...or the Thooneshucks police will show up with a correctionswitch!

 

[lex666]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

18 pedals does seems like alot going on, but I guess what really matters is how you like them and your tone. If you're satisfied with your tone, who cares if you've got 18 or 100 pedals on your board?

I just counted and I'm up to 13 pedals on my board. But I play mostly covers and use them to cover everything from Beatles, to Zeppelin, to Metallica, to RATM, Nirvana, etc ,etc...

Besides, I think most up us go thru phases. One week, i'll want all the cool effects on my board, the next week, I'll be in the mood to go "pure" straight into my amp. I'm willing to bet in a year or two, someone will be selling alot of pedals...

 

[B2D]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

As a pedal geek, I have this to say:

At my very worst, I had 11 pedals on my live board, and about 3-4 of those were in the loop of my amp. It was a hassle to maintain, for sure. Heavy and lots of real estate and electrical/signal connections to mind.

As I started playing live more often I started to consolidate my effects by getting rid of nonessentials (volume pedal, whammy pedal) and consolidating some others with a reasonably sized multi-pedal (i.e. Line 6 MM4). I got down to 5 pedals and an amp channel switcher... 2 of those were still in the amp's loop and I was still using a lot of cable length to get from guitar to board, then board to amp, and then to board and back from the amp for the loop. Totaled 60-50 feet of cable... Still it was 6 less pedals and exponentially less hassle to deal with connections/power etc.

Back around November I somewhat accidentally stumbled upon a nifty substitute for the amp's distortion in the form of a Keeley DS-1 Ultra, and stuck that on my board and wired all the pedals in series. The am switcher's gone now, KDS-1 is in it's footprint. But 30 feet less cable to worry about. Less signal degradation from less cable = noticeably better tone still. It's definitely the best-sounding most hassle-free setup I've had yet. I plug in the power, plug the board into the amp, plug my guitar into the board and I'm off and running.

I wouldn't mind having 18 pedals to choose from, though I'd probably never want more than 5-6 of them on the board at any one given time. I'd swap 'em out between gigs to suit the situation. I used to to that a lot when I had small collection of overdrive pedals. My MO at this point is to try to keep things as simple as possible and let the signal path remain as uncluttered as possible. I find I play better when I've got better tone and not worrying about tap-dancing or wiring up my rig.

Some people are comfortable with huge boards. I'm not, at least not anymore. I don't even think I'd use something that big at home where it didn't matter... I like to spend time tweaking, but I like to spend time playing more.

...just my 2 cents.