So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

[millsart]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

Fair enough.

But most folks realistically only end up using a small handful of effects on their boards and after about 5 or 6 pedals at best they end up getting turned on for one song or a small bit which they could have easily done without.

After 18 pedals your signal has to sound like crud, even if you're only running a few of them at a time.

Sure, I've owned 18 pedals. I'm probably near that now. But I only really use maybe 4 of them regularly, and of those 4 I consider 2 to be a necessity.

At what point does the time you spend stomping around and tweaking become more than its worth? At what point does it interfere with the music and the songs being played? At what point are you more aggravation and unnecessary delay to your other band members than you're really worth?

Most of the pedals listed are "trick" pedals that should likely only be used for a short passage or a single song at maximum. Two fuzzes and three phase/flanges? Seriously? Two different delays?

At what point does it start to become more work than its worth?

Point taken, but while in some ways your right with your point, in other ways your wrong.

Is the Octron an effect thats used every song ? No way, but for those few times you want that screaming octave up effect, or a cool synthy octave down effect theres nothing else that does that.

Two fuzz ? (I've actually been reducing it from 5 lol) The Axis is the classic Jimi BOG fuzz, bright and spitting and totally cuts. The Muff is sort of the opposite with the darker "muffy" tone, and loads more gain. Its that singing Gilmour tone and/or can be pushed into the wall of fuzz territory.

Same goes for two phasers, the SS is that lush organic 4 stage classic sweep ala "Breathe" whle the ph-2 is a very modern and in your face sound, very edgy and pronouced. Totally different pedals really.

As for two delays, I guess that could be a bit of a luxury but while I'm totally in love with the classic tape echo sounds of the RE-20 for slapback and multitap, I just can't come to part with the DMM because for clean mod delays is just sounds so good......


One additional thing I've found is that for me at least, more pedals actually makes life easier as I can get exactly what I'm after.

As an example, lets use the Univibe sound. I love Hendrix and as such just had to have a vibe on my board though no its not a used all the time effect.

If I worked at it enough, using the Small Stone, a tremolo pedal and a touch of chorus I could actually get a fairly close vibey style throbbing tone.

But thats alot of extra work to tweak and dial in you can imagine. It means that many more pedals I've got to adjust and remember the settings on.

Having the actual vibe means I can set it where I want it and its done. Classic vibe sounds, no compromise. My trem and phaser do what they do best respectively and life is simplier.

Additionally no matter how close you get it as well, the true vibe pedal always sounds better than any other combo of pedals. Its just an issue of how much do you love that effect and if its worth the money to you.

 

[millsart]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

or, perhaps that new one from Carl Martin would work, especially if you have certain "presets" that you use frequently (phase+fuzz, or wah+distortion+echo, etc.).

edit: just curious...do you need the memory man and the RE-20? lots of real estate to have both.

I would totally LOVE a looper like that but they are certainly on the pricey side (over $1000) so I've always held off. Money I could use on more pedals or guitars LOL. If I was playing out regulary (or had tour support money!) then I'd be the first in line though.


Your right about the delays taking up some space. RE20 isn't too bad but the DMM is a space hog for sure.

They are both really good though so I use them both. The RE20 and longer multi tap echo's are just amazing. DMM certainly can't do either of those things, RE20 has up to 6 seconds of delay time in fact. Its just awesome for those Floyd like delays.

the DMM is a total classic though as well as I'm sure you know, it just sounds so lush and warm with some mod on the chorus setting playing clean. Everone who loves that pedal knows exactly what I mean and I've just found nothing that can really give that sound so I've kept it around.

Plus being I keep hearing they'll be out of production sooner or later figure its a good one to hang onto because they won't make them like they used to and no, the SMM doesn't sound the same lol

 

[millsart]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

One last though from me here regarding alot of peoples suggestions of buffers, or signal lost. YMMV but I've really not found it to be much of a problem at all surprisingly.

Basically I've always got a few stomps on for a given song, be it the sparkle drive, or the axis fuzz etc. All those pedals have plenty of output to help drive the chain I've found. Even stuff like my chorus pedal have a bit of boost so I've really noticed no issues with keeping things at unity gain down the chain.



One thing I've been thinking about though is trying to maybe get another looper for a two chained fx setup or two.

Being I play a few different styles, stuff like the comp, qtron and phaser get used on the funky stuff and thats about it.

When I'm trying to get my Hendrix on (poorly I should add lol) Its obviously wah, fuzz, octave and vibe.


I'm thinking it might be to an advantage to sort of set it up in a way that I can run just the typical Jimi setup straight to the amp, and then kick in the looper and throw the rest of the effects in as needed.

 

[stuey222]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

If it's for home, I see no problem with it. You'll probably just set it up and leave it, and if you play a gig, you could always get a smaller one with only the pedals you actually need.

On a side note, does a tuner work after effects? I always thought it had to be first.

 

[wahwah]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

In the absence of common sense and practicality then technically "nothing."

Key point though....he has the money to pay people to make sure he has great sound as well as tote that battleship around.

While I have the utmost respect for both you and Mister Finn, most of us are typically playing to small crowds and small venues where our finances and efforts are better suited to a host of other aspects regarding our playing and situations than dumping it into the pockets of someone like Bob Bradshaw just so you can get that perfect pristine Flange sound for all of the required eight seconds in Boston's "More Than A Feeling."

The OP asked if it was excessive.

The answer resoundingly is "Yes."

Your pragmatism certainly makes for a sustainable argument, and I wouldn't want to be dragging that board around myself! The same argument could also suggest that if you're not going to be doing gigs or recording, you don't really need anything other than one guitar and a practice amp. Anything more could be seen as over-indulging a hobby. If the question was "should I go out and buy all of these pedals?" I would ask, "Why do you want them?" But if somebody says "I already own these pedals, should I set 'em all up on a board?" I'd say "Hell yeah, life's too short not to enjoy 'em, even if it's just an over-indulged hobby!" At what point can one person justify their judgement of the degree of another's indulgence in a hobby, passion or pastime, be it amateur, professional or for personal enjoyment?

I can totally understand the two different delays. A Deluxe Memory Man and an RE-20...two completely different playing experiences, and two totally usable effects in a live situation. They each do things the other can't. I wouldn't call that excessive. Two different phasers with different tones set to different speeds, that sounds attractive to me! Dropping in three octaves worth of Octron for the second half of the solo of two songs in a night...oh yeah, that'll make anyone who's listening sit on their ass. One song where you kick in the Q-Tron and funk with people's mind's, I'd call that colorful. Now if it's an AC/DC cover band, I'd call it stupid. More importantly, if you had all that stuff and you couldn't really play, then you're a hobbyist with cash to spare. If you're buying these pedals instead of feeding your kids, you're irresponsible. But if you already own them, and no-one got hurt, and you want to set them up at home or go to the trouble of setting them up at a gig and you know how to effectively use them, I think it could make for a memorable performance that might even capture the attention of an audience or potential new bandmate over the guy who has a tube screamer and a wah that he uses for one song. I couldn't call that excessive.




Cheers...............................wahwah

 

[FAC]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

I would totally LOVE a looper like that but they are certainly on the pricey side (over $1000) so I've always held off. Money I could use on more pedals or guitars LOL.

Loop-master has an 8 loop strip, plus tuner out and master bypass, for $215. Not exactly cheap, but not that bad with respect to the other cool gear you've got (you could even get 2 of them for a lot less than $1000!).

To keep it simple, you could get one 8-loop strip and put the noisiest of them on it, and put those effects on the far side of the board (since you won't need to reach them with your foot, as the looper will be down in front). Put the rest of the effects in the first (and probably second...) row, where you can more easily reach them. Just a thought! Post pics when you figure it all out.

edit: now I see why you'd want 2 delays. I didn't realize how different from one another they were. And if this pedal board is not meant to travel often, why not have everything on there?

 

[martin6string]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

IMO, 1 pedal is way too many!

Hey, ya asked. LOL!

Ahhhh Shut Up!!! LOL!!!

Dave, you should really check a couple of mine out. The Teese Wizard Wah kicks ass!

 

[Skarekrough]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

Point taken, but while in some ways your right with your point, in other ways your wrong.

Well, inherently the question comes up that we would need specifics for what you are trying to achieve with these; what is your end goal? What kinds of gigs are you playing? How often are you playing? Are you a studio musician or a hobbyist or a touring professional?

I don't doubt that each pedal has its own individual flavor. At one point I owned half a dozen Tube Screamers and could tell you the difference tonally between each one of them. But I also realized that for 95% of my or really any players need having more than one was unnecessary.

 

[Skarekrough]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

Your pragmatism certainly makes for a sustainable argument, and I wouldn't want to be dragging that board around myself! The same argument could also suggest that if you're not going to be doing gigs or recording, you don't really need anything other than one guitar and a practice amp. Anything more could be seen as over-indulging a hobby. If the question was "should I go out and buy all of these pedals?" I would ask, "Why do you want them?" But if somebody says "I already own these pedals, should I set 'em all up on a board?" I'd say "Hell yeah, life's too short not to enjoy 'em, even if it's just an over-indulged hobby!" At what point can one person justify their judgement of the degree of another's indulgence in a hobby, passion or pastime, be it amateur, professional or for personal enjoyment?

This is the same thing I hear in regards to SUV's in the States.

You're welcome to plunk down the coin or finance something like a Chevy Suburban or a Humvee. You have every right to own one of you can afford it or convince a bank that they should front you the money for it.

But you also lose the right to complain about the cost of fueling it up when you could have gone with something far less expensive and economical when it very likely would have fulfilled all your necessities.

He asked if it was excessive.

Most of us aren't you or Mister Finn. And overwhelmingly the answer has been a resounding "yes."

I can totally understand the two different delays. A Deluxe Memory Man and an RE-20...two completely different playing experiences, and two totally usable effects in a live situation. They each do things the other can't. I wouldn't call that excessive. Two different phasers with different tones set to different speeds, that sounds attractive to me! Dropping in three octaves worth of Octron for the second half of the solo of two songs in a night...oh yeah, that'll make anyone who's listening sit on their ass.

Curiously, this is where we differ.

And I hope you don't take offense at this next comment...

Unless you're a guitar player, and likely a major geek of a guitar player you really just don't give a crap about those things.....at worst a guitar solo is a temporary annoyance between lyrics...at best it's something that would be considered "appropriate" for the song.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

[snip]

Cheers...............................wahwah

Another perfect post by Wahwah.

Skarekrow, I'm not sure your argument regarding SUVs is accurate. While me buying a Suburban may actually affect you and your life (either now or in the future, regardless of how small of an effect) I don't see how millsart setting up a massive board has any effect on any of us. I don't forsee him posting and complaining about how much noise and signal loss he's getting from his board, and in the end he'll probably offer a great story that can help others in building a high quality, useful board. (No matter what size)

So is it excessive? Maybe, but it's also not harming anything, is it?

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

Man let us all play...hmm something meek and all that!!
No wonder music is bloody dreadful these days.....when nothing fun can take place anymore!!
Listen to old classical music, it is both sometimes busy and and demanding...and has alot of different tones and soundscapes........
Buhbye

 

[Skarekrough]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

Another perfect post by Wahwah.

Skarekrow, I'm not sure your argument regarding SUVs is accurate. While me buying a Suburban may actually affect you and your life (either now or in the future, regardless of how small of an effect) I don't see how millsart setting up a massive board has any effect on any of us.

I never said that either the Suburban or the pedals would have an effect on us personally.

Mostly the actions effect the person that made the decision directly either by having slightly less lights, LED's, switches and knobs in front of them than your typical air traffic controller or nuclear turbine operator.

But inherently it will come down to his answer regarding what his needs for them are.

If he's playing at home just for yuks then it comes under the freedom to do whatever the heck you want no matter what it is.

If he's going out and playing AC/DC covers....then it's obvious that it's excessive.

I don't forsee him posting and complaining about how much noise and signal loss he's getting from his board, and in the end he'll probably offer a great story that can help others in building a high quality, useful board. (No matter what size)

Funny...I foresee a post six months from now telling us what an incredible time and money suck the project was and how he really didn't need anything that massive and how he managed to cut it down to less than half of what he'd had previously and managed to work it all out.

But then again, I think much of this has to do with perspective.

I guess I'm just used to getting more done with less.

So is it excessive? Maybe, but it's also not harming anything, is it?

I was once told to either be a good example or a terrible warning.

Certainly plenty of folks manage to get the job done with less.

He asked whether 18 pedals was excessive.

Consistently I see most players managing to get the job done with a solid third of that number at the most.

So my answer is "yes."

You can argue with me over what it is I've seen in my experiences or impress the heck out of me and tell me how many fingers I'm holding up. I'll even make it sporting and throw out the obvious answer of a particular single digit.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

Maybe you are just an old tired man
Hehe

 

[Skarekrough]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

Maybe you are just an old tired man
Hehe

I am!

...tired of lugging gear that's unnecessary!

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

Haha....ok
Sounds like it is all too much like a job to you
Not something fun or something that you can play around with!!
Dunno he can use 50 pedals and I would not care

 

[millsart]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

Funny...I foresee a post six months from now telling us what an incredible time and money suck the project was and how he really didn't need anything that massive and how he managed to cut it down to less than half of what he'd had previously and managed to work it all out.

LOL, I don't know who originally said the quote but I've always loved it.

"Over the years I've spent tons of money on guitars, women and beer......I wasted the rest" so true :friday:

Funny enough but I actually have pared down a bunch of effects (got about 7 or 8 pedals on the trading post right now by the way)

I used to have a TON of fuzz (still probably my favorite effect to collect as they all have so much character, way more than OD's etc though I know some people dig those)

I've cut my Chorus pedals down alot of well in the past few months, MIJ CE-2 - up for sale, Arion Chorus - up for sale, Analogman Chours - Sold, Boss CE-5 - Sold Meistersing Chorus - Returned to the dealer


I've just been playing for a pretty long time, about 20 years I guess (not as long as some but a lifetime to the younger folks here) so I've collected a ton of pedals and been into and out of a ton of musical styles over the years. As such the gear builds up and the various taste often remain.

as someone pointed out, for AC/DC alot of the stuff I have would be a huge waste, and hell, maybe I sometimes wish I was only into one style, life would be simple.

But I'm not, and I think the rest of the time I'm rather lucky about that. I just find it great fun jamming on some funk riffs with people every now and again. Having the Qtron oozing that dripping filtered goodness is where its at.

If I didn't do it, I could take some pedals off. Maybe those guys that just want a Jimi sound are lucky, buy 4 great pedals and your in business even though you'll never be able to play like him.

But as much as I love Jimi, theres still so much other great music out there that I wouldn't want to only play Jimi toned stuff


Hope that makes a little sense into where I'm coming from

 

[wahwah]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

Curiously, this is where we differ.

And I hope you don't take offense at this next comment...

Unless you're a guitar player, and likely a major geek of a guitar player you really just don't give a crap about those things.....at worst a guitar solo is a temporary annoyance between lyrics...at best it's something that would be considered "appropriate" for the song.

No offense taken whatsoever, and I have often used the same argument regarding solos from an audience perspective. It would all come down to the player, and their appropriate use of both musicality and sound to make that break in the vocals interesting rather than an annoyance. Not everyone is capable of this, but that doesn't mean that nobody should bother making the attempt. There are many examples of solos which have become integral parts of songs, and audiences sing their melodies. Sometimes there will be a particular effect that goes along with them. The guys who came up with those may very well be the major geeks you describe. Hendrix would be one of those geeks. Personally, I'm glad he took the time to check out what a wah or fuzz or Univibe would do to his sound. For the times, many might have considered his three pedals to have been excessive. 40 years later, we're discussing 18 pedals!

I've been through many phases, and phasers. At times I become jaded and bored and decide that I will just strip everything back coz nobody really gives a $hit anyway. At other times, I will have a renewed surge of interest and will explore a few options. I have no aversion to either of these perspective poles. The bored phase usually yields a greater degree of experimentation from a playing perspective, and the pedal interest usually brings out a few more useful textures. I am in the midst of a renewed interest phase, and I have been playing so much while testing out pedals that I have worn through my calluses back to raw flesh and now onto some extra hardy new calluses. There is joy in these geeky exploits for me, which is why I could never begrudge anyone else the same geeky pleasure. It translates as a renewed enthusiasm which does no harm to live performance. But I also understand and respect the "let it be" phase. Neither is correct, nor superior.




Cheers.............................wahwah

 

[Rich_T]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

Unless you're a guitar player, and likely a major geek of a guitar player you really just don't give a crap about those things.....at worst a guitar solo is a temporary annoyance between lyrics...at best it's something that would be considered "appropriate" for the song.

I guess that is where we differ. I don't give a flying fudge brownie what the audience thinks about the "appropriate" nature of my pedal board. I am making music for one person, myself. If I want to make silly noises for half an hour with 20 different pedals, I will. Chances are, I won't even have an audience to begin with, so what does it matter. First and foremost, I am not an entertainer, I am a "composer", but in a very loose, barrier-free sense. I spend time working with timbre, texture and subtle shades. Pedals are integral to my writing. Which is why I don't expect someone like your fine self to be a fan, but I also don't expect your pedal board to be the same as mine.

But I know we both like beer, so :beerchug:

 

[drpietrzak]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

My rig is below (I sometimes add a wah or reverb.). It is a matter of my having one board I haul, use it with different amps and only want to have 3 things to grab - amp, guitar and board (SPB-8).

 

[FAC]

Re: So is 18 pedals excessive for a new board ?

From the original post:

Its going to be a rather large board but its not like I'm playing out often anymore so space isn't an issue. Theres not really much I can see leaving off though as everything has a use and a roll that can't be filled by anything else.

I'm tired of always having to plug and unplug pedals to suit my needs so I finally want something with everything all hooked up at once

Given these criteria:

1. all are essential to his sound
2. not hauling it around much, and
3. sick of always plugging and unplugging,

then it is my opinion that 18 pedals is not excessive.

Could one get by with less...yes...but the question was not "how few pedals do I need". Would it be a bear to haul around? Yes, but that does not sound like an issue here. Do others use fewer pedals? Yes. Do others use more? Perhaps. Is less more? Depends on the situation. Will it change in 6 months...probably. Is that bad? No! Just my $.02.