so what causes this ...

tone4days

Heel Whacker
so i had the roadster dialed in a singin' sweetly this weekend ... with the neck humbucker (AIIP) of my brian moore, i was getting essentially infinite sustain on many many notes .. but never on the note "C" ... didnt matter if i played it at the 13th fret of the 2nd string or the 8th fret of the 1st string or wherever ... B? nice, 'ooooo' sounding sustain until i let go .... C? barely a second or so

what causes that? ... the amp? the guitar? other?

thanks
t4d
 
Re: so what causes this ...

Keep all the settings on everything exactly the same, but put it in a different room. Could be the room's acoustics.

- Keith
 
Re: so what causes this ...

thanks, keith, will try that .. it is a closed back 1x12" cab and wasnt 'that' loud .. dunno if the room only plays a part if it is very loud
 
Re: so what causes this ...

Rooms can do funny things. I most often find certain notes that will sustain more than others, but I suppose it's just as possible for a room to have destructive resonation, deadening certain frequencies and overtones. Even try moving the amp to another location, or having it face a different wall. Make small changes at first, then go from there.

- Keith
 
Re: so what causes this ...

......I'd love the hear the answer :D

Definitely sounds like a frequency thing though.

Do you hear the C at all or is it just not sustaining like the other notes?

Try some new strings too :laugh2:
 
Re: so what causes this ...

I used to have the same exact problem with my rectifier. I'd get this weird "whoof/whomp" sound when playing, you guessed it, a C chord. And it was only when using gain. Dunno what really caused it. I don't have the problem any more. Maybe it was the room. Maybe it was the cab. Both those variables are out of the question for me now though. Kinda bugged me that it did that and I never knew why.
 
Re: so what causes this ...

ha ha ... yeah, new strings .. no, i hear the note just fine ... it just doesnt do the same infinite sustain thing ... it just kinda seems to choke out, no matter how i attack or finger vibrato ... i moved around the room too, to see if there was a physical coupling of the guitar and speaker that was the culprit ... i got all the other notes to sing no matter where i stood - and the C never rang out no matter where i stood ...

i was initially worried about a dead spot on the neck, but i played the C in the same octave 4 different spots all over the neck and got the same results (plus i thought it odd that a dead spot could develop all of a sudden)

t4d
 
Re: so what causes this ...

OOOOHHH....did you try a different guitar ?????

Might help ya' narrow it down to a guitar vs amp issue.
 
Re: so what causes this ...

This is not an uncommon phenomenon. The frequencies which create the note C are approximately 130Hz, 260Hz, 520 Hz, 1kHz, 2kHz & 4kHz. What you're experiencing is possibly a form of wave cancellation at around those frequencies, which are obviously intimately connected. On another day, in a different space, with the same equipment, you could experience the same thing but with a different note! I encounter this problem with my main gig, because there is a spot in the show where I need to generate feedback on a 12th fret G. 9 times out of ten, it takes off sweetly and all is well. But that tenth time, I will have to move around to find the spot where it will take off. One time out of twenty, quite often at outdoor shows or on particularly dead stages, it just won't take off at all, and I just get air, making me look and sound like a total knob end.

I've learnt to check out the sweet spot at soundchecks, and when I get one of those problem stages, I just say a little prayer to Jimi. I've even had the experience of getting nothing at the soundcheck, but purely with the different atmosphere of the gig, it takes off like a rocket.

There'd be a guy in a lab coat somewhere who could give you a much better explanation, but as a guitar player, I'd be calling "voodoo" and chalking it up to "mysteries of the Universe."

Oh, and by the way, here in Australia, it's already your birthday, so Happy Birthday t4d...




Cheers........................wahwah
 
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Re: so what causes this ...

thanks Wah!

yeah, maybe i need a little prayer to jimi :D

i only tried it with the brian moore ... i was also playing the strat, but that has a totally different feel with the EJ pickups ... i wasnt expecting that 'singing' thing with the strat on any note
 
Re: so what causes this ...

My take on it is pretty much the same as Wahwah's. There's resonant frequencies in play between both the guitar's wood and the speaker cones.

When a note sustains in an ugly way, causing the speaker to vibrate against the note you're playing, it's often called cone cry. Just like your dead note, this cascades into an ugly sounding buzz on just that note.

On the flipside, there are notes where the guitar/amp/speakers all resonate perfectly together, making infinite sustain quite effortless.

Like Wahwah said, there's some sort of resonant frequency cancellation on C, because the guitar's body doesn't match that note. And, it's possible that the wood and speakers in your amp don't vibe with that note either. So what you get is a C note that's only working because of the string energy, pickups, and amp circuitry. Everything else is fighting it.
 
Re: so what causes this ...

This is not an uncommon phenomenon. The frequencies which create the note C are approximately 130Hz, 260Hz, 520 Hz, 1kHz, 2kHz & 4kHz. What you're experiencing is possibly a form of wave cancellation at around those frequencies, which are obviously intimately connected. On another day, in a different space, with the same equipment, you could experience the same thing but with a different note! I encounter this problem with my main gig, because there is a spot in the show where I need to generate feedback on a 12th fret G. 9 times out of ten, it takes off sweetly and all is well. But that tenth time, I will have to move around to find the spot where it will take off. One time out of twenty, quite often at outdoor shows or on particularly dead stages, it just won't take off at all, and I just get air, making me look and sound like a total knob end.

I've learnt to check out the sweet spot at soundchecks, and when I get one of those problem stages, I just say a little prayer to Jimi. I've even had the experience of getting nothing at the soundcheck, but purely with the different atmosphere of the gig, it takes off like a rocket.

There'd be a guy in a lab coat somewhere who could give you a much better explanation, but as a guitar player, I'd be calling "voodoo" and chalking it up to "mysteries of the Universe."

Oh, and by the way, here in Australia, it's already your birthday, so Happy Birthday t4d...




Cheers........................wahwah

Dude, can you go over the math part of String Theory with me?
 
Re: so what causes this ...

Ted Nugent used to mark the stage with masking tape, showing him where all the different notes would feed back. Stand here for a G, up there for an A.
 
Re: so what causes this ...

lol - i swear i wasnt that loud!

in fact, it wasnt feedback, just lush singing sustain

more investigating to do
 
Re: so what causes this ...

Dude, can you go over the math part of String Theory with me?

Sure. So you've got this piece of string right, and it's really, really long, so long in fact that it reaches through multiple dimensions and gets really, really confusing, so confusing in fact that you get sleepy and let go of the string and just put on "Axis:Bold As Love" and then everything's alright.

I hope this helps.



Cheers.........................wahwah
 
Re: so what causes this ...

I've learnt to check out the sweet spot at soundchecks, and when I get one of those problem stages, I just say a little prayer to Jimi. I've even had the experience of getting nothing at the soundcheck, but purely with the different atmosphere of the gig, it takes off like a rocket.

Mmmm hmmm.

Gotta find & "mark" the feedback generation spots on stage, or anywhere really...

One failsafe feedback generator is touching the headstock to the cabinet... that always seems to work!

Like others have said it's probably just an acoustical phenomenon that relates to that room, and yeah... even at LOW volumes room acoustics will come into play.

They just have more effect when you turn the amp up since the speakers are displacing more air inside the room.

Think of it as physics that have a bit in common with both a pool table (banking shots) and visible light waves...



Now then, where's that string that WahWah was toying with...

:jester:
 
Re: so what causes this ...

.
Sure. So you've got this piece of string right, and it's really, really long, so long in fact that it reaches through multiple dimensions and gets really, really confusing, so confusing in fact that you get sleepy and let go of the string and just put on "Axis:Bold As Love" and then everything's alright.

I hope this helps.



Cheers.........................wahwah
Dude, ... that's impossible .... this string is like ..... dude its like longer than Yngwie's solo ... that's like impossibly long ...
 
Re: so what causes this ...

.
Dude, ... that's impossible .... this string is like ..... dude its like longer than Yngwie's solo ... that's like impossibly long ...

Yeah man, like I said in my scientific explanation, it's really, really long. That's why it's called "String Theory" and not "String Fact," because scientists are still trying to work out how to make a piece of string that long, to test it out. It's pretty technical stuff. I recommend skipping it (the theory, not the string) and just cutting straight to "Axis:Bold As Love."......"just ask the axis...."

You guys are so lucky that I'm here to explain this stuff.



Cheers..........................wahwah
 
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