Soldering - Help Needed

[waylay00]

Ok guys, I'm about to undertake this process of installing pickups by myself for the first time. They will be the SH-4JN and the SH-2N Jazz.

I have never soldered before though. What should I use to practice?

Also, what do I need?

-Soldering Iron (30 watts?)
-Rosin Core Solder 60/40?
-Sponge?
-Alligator Clip?

I have seen that some people don't use flux, but some people do.

1) Is flux necessary?
2) How/when do you apply it?
3) Do you apply it after you've soldered the connection or what?

Also, when soldering, what if I were to connect a lug to the back of a pot? Would I need wire to connect the lug to the back of the pot? Or would I just use a long solder connection?

So when you solder a wire to a lug, do you just apply some solder to the tip of the iron and then heat the lug and let it flow from the tip onto the lug and wire?

Sorry if I'm asking too many questions, but I'd appreciate it if someone would help me out.

Thanks!

 

[waylay00]

Re: Soldering - Help Needed

Oh yeah, and how thick of solder do I need?

 

[Chaos]

Re: Soldering - Help Needed

The ‘rosin’ in rosin core solder is flux, so to answer that question, no you do not need additional flux.

Forget about the alligator clips. The are used as a heat sink when soldering delicate components. They have their use, but usually just make soldering harder for a beginner.

Apply a very small amount of solder to the tip of your soldering iron. (This is not used to make the solder connection – it is only to create a better ‘coupling’ between the iron and the connector) Heat the connector to the point where the connection is hot enough to melt to solder (3-4 seconds) and apply the solder directly to the connection (not the iron).

As far as soldering a lug to the pot backshell, you don’t need additional wire. Just bent the lug back until it is touching the backshell and apply solder.

Sometimes it helps if you clean the terminals, lugs and backshells before soldering. Many have suggested using sandpaper on the pots, but this can cut through the metal plating if your not careful (actually making it harder to solder) I would recommend using a pencil eraser as a cleaning tool instead.

Solder thickness is a personal preference. Your not soldering ‘micro-components’ so get what ever is cheap and available.

Also see:
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=399

 

[frpax]

Re: Soldering - Help Needed

I use a Weller 25 watt soldering iron and I think that is sufficient for all of my soldering needs.

I use the rosin core solder (eliminate flux entirely); thin-ish: .05 diameter. The thick stuff is just too much, you'll end up w/ a mess.

I hold my hot iron up against what I want to solder, and then push the solder right in the area I want to have solder. Sometimes, I use the iron to maneuver the now liquid solder into the desired area, or spread it around a bit. It takes a little practice and you'll get a feel for it quick enough.

 

[tone]

Re: Soldering - Help Needed

"Apply a very small amount of solder to the tip of your soldering iron. (This is not used to make the solder connection – it is only to create a better ‘coupling’ between the iron and the connector) Heat the connector to the point where the connection is hot enough to melt to solder (3-4 seconds) and apply the solder directly to the connection (not the iron)."

After you've done that, and got some solder on say the pot, how do you then get your wire there? You just heat up the solder that is now on the pot, and apply the wire? Then, how do you add more solder to cover the wire/connection good? I've tried to do this by putting the iron back on the wire to heat up and add more solder, but then I was thinking too much heat on the wire might damage the pickup? Then I tried just heating up the solder that's already holding down the wire, but when I heat it up to add more to the area, the wire becomes lose and ruins the whole thing.

I suck at soldering.

 

[neosadist]

Re: Soldering - Help Needed

Ok guys, I'm about to undertake this process of installing pickups by myself for the first time. They will be the SH-4JN and the SH-2N Jazz. I have never soldered before though. What should I use to practice? Also, what do I need? -Soldering Iron (30 watts?) -Rosin Core Solder 60/40? -Sponge? -Alligator Clip? I have seen that some people don't use flux, but some people do.
1) Is flux necessary? 2) How/when do you apply it? 3) Do you apply it after you've soldered the connection or what? Also, when soldering, what if I were to connect a lug to the back of a pot? Would I need wire to connect the lug to the back of the pot? Or would I just use a long solder connection? So when you solder a wire to a lug, do you just apply some solder to the tip of the iron and then heat the lug and let it flow from the tip onto the lug and wire? Sorry if I'm asking too many questions, but I'd appreciate it if someone would help me out. Thanks!

First, congratulations on that pickup combination! I have it myself and I love it!
Practice? I wouldn't practice unless it's on very old junk guitars. I'd say a Soldering Iron, and if you can, get 40W or higher (but NOT a soldering GUN, a soldering IRON, etc). Flux is a good thing for a high-quality, easy soldering job. I was taught soldering by the USAF. It helps "pull" the solder into the position, and helps clean up wire. I would recommend that you take a class on soldering, as it's an art, and not easy to teach by pictures. The idea about solder is this: the wire makes the connection, but won't physically hold to the terminal. The solder will hold to the terminal, but is a lowsy electrical connection. Together, however, they are very good.
Anyways, if you're soldering pots, usually you strip the insulation back on the wire that's going to the terminal, smear flux on exposed wire, grab iron and put a bead of liquid solder on the top of it, then touch wire to the top of this bead. Should quickly solder itself. This is called "tinning" the wire. Then, when wire is cool, you bend it into a hook around the terminal that you're going to solder it to, smear a little flux into the terminal hole, and while holding wire in position (touching lug, this is important), you grab a dab of solder and touch it to the lug. This should cause the solder to fill up the hole, making it look like a solid metal connection.
As for alligator clip, it's used as a heat sink. I would use it between where you're soldering and the component, but for capacitors mainly, so you don't overheat them.
As for rosin core solder, I prefer "normal", non-flux/non-rosin core solder, but rosin core will be fine.
The sponge is used (dampened) to clean the soldering iron, but i usually just plunge the iron's tip into the flux before putting solder on it.
I hope this makes sense. I'll try to get some nice pictures. Take care for now!

 

[Chaos]

Re: Soldering - Help Needed

As I mentioned in my first post, rosin is flux. Rosin core solder is carefully proportioned so the right amount of flux is applied with the solder. There shouldn’t be a need to add more.

It doesn’t hurt to use extra flux, but it can make things messy. (Rosin is made from pine sap).

The wire should be connected to the terminal before you solder. As Neosadist stated, ‘tinning’ the wire will bond the wire strands together, making it easier to bend the wire around the terminal.

Soldering is not “glue”. You are not bonding things together through adhesion. The ‘donor’ metals in the terminal, wire and solder combine to make an alloy uniting all three (mechanically and electrically) into one.

 

[waylay00]

Re: Soldering - Help Needed

So when connecting a wire to a pot lug, do I need to slip it through the little hole? I've heard that this makes it hard to clean up if you ever wish to remove it.

Also, extra flux or no extra flux? I'm getting about 50/50 here on the answers. My teacher said he doesn't use extra flux, so I'll probably just do it like he does. And if it doesn't work for some reason I'll just take it to him. (But I'm a DIY'er type, so I really want to do this myself. I mean, I've built a computer so it shouldn't be that much harder, if not easier)

 

[papersoul]

Re: Soldering - Help Needed

I much prefer a 40 watt iron after struggling with lower wattage. i like to get in and out fast, with less contact on the pot.

 

[TheJangus]

Re: Soldering - Help Needed

So when connecting a wire to a pot lug, do I need to slip it through the little hole? I've heard that this makes it hard to clean up if you ever wish to remove it.

Also, extra flux or no extra flux? I'm getting about 50/50 here on the answers. My teacher said he doesn't use extra flux, so I'll probably just do it like he does. And if it doesn't work for some reason I'll just take it to him. (But I'm a DIY'er type, so I really want to do this myself. I mean, I've built a computer so it shouldn't be that much harder, if not easier)

You don't need to slip it through the hole. It does make it a bit harder to remove.

I like to tin the wire and the lug. Let them cool. Then hold the wire to the lug and apply the iron. The solder that is tinned to the wire and lug will flow together. Remove the iron while holding the wire in position for a second or two for it to cool and harden.

You don't need any extra flux. The rosin core is just fine. I agree on the 40 watt iron. Makes the job easier.

 

[waylay00]

Re: Soldering - Help Needed

Yeah, that's what I thought.

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: Soldering - Help Needed

So when connecting a wire to a pot lug, do I need to slip it through the little hole? I've heard that this makes it hard to clean up if you ever wish to remove it.

Also, extra flux or no extra flux? I'm getting about 50/50 here on the answers. My teacher said he doesn't use extra flux, so I'll probably just do it like he does. And if it doesn't work for some reason I'll just take it to him. (But I'm a DIY'er type, so I really want to do this myself. I mean, I've built a computer so it shouldn't be that much harder, if not easier)

Personally, I haven't had to use extra flux for some years. It's generally not a good idea in electrical circuits as the type of flux that is usually sold separately is corrosive and waxy and can damage electrical connections over a long period so in general, i would say "no" to flux; however there are some circumstance (an old, corroded pot casing maybe) when it has its uses.

I don't consider it good practice to wrap a wire round a pot lug. It's done in a lot of factories as they have one person hooking up the connections and another doing the soldering, but there is no technical reason for doing it, it's just production expediency. If the wire has to come off it makes a mess and puts connections under strain. A nice wet solder blob is a very effective joint providing both parts of the workpiece have been properly tinned.

Something others haven't mentioned yet is the use of heat shrink tubing. (Apologies if anyone has, I haven't read every post in detail yet)

As well as the wire wrapping I mentioned, another popular practice in guitar factories involves soldering the screen to the pot casing. What often happens with vinyl screen hook up wire is that heat travels up the wire screen and melts the insulation, causing a short circuit. Dividing the wire a bit further up and shrouding the screen in about 1/2 inch of heat shrink (with another glove of heat shrink over the division fork) reduces the risk of this happening by moving the fork in the wire away from the heat source during soldering. . It also allows you to get the bit of exposed signal wire going to the pot lug a bit shorter, which is better for screening.

 

[papersoul]

Re: Soldering - Help Needed

Octavedoctor.......what is screeening??? You lost me brother.

 

[waylay00]

Re: Soldering - Help Needed

Yeah, lost me on the screening part too.

 

[Chaos]

Re: Soldering - Help Needed

screen = shield
screening = shielding
The braided wiring surrounding the center conductor(s)

 

[SpiderVenom]

Re: Soldering - Help Needed

One additional question - when tinning a component/wire before making it part of a connection, how should the solder actually be applied to tin it? Heat the end and touch it to the solder, or melt the solder on with the iron, or what?

 

[papersoul]

Re: Soldering - Help Needed

Octavedoctor,

Is the use of that shielded wire a cheap way of making the pickup wire? I see some companies have the separate wire rather than the screening which drives me nuts having the screening. Great, now I have to worry about how I solder that screening without ruining the pickup wire...or tone? So much easier with pickups that have the separate wires to solder. Is it still best to solder this shielded wire ground to the pot casing and if so...is there a best technique?

Thanks.

 

[Fritz6]

Re: Soldering - Help Needed

Ok guys, I'm about to undertake this process of installing pickups by myself for the first time. They will be the SH-4JN and the SH-2N Jazz.

I have never soldered before though. What should I use to practice?

Also, what do I need?

-Soldering Iron (30 watts?)
-Rosin Core Solder 60/40?
-Sponge?
-Alligator Clip?

I have seen that some people don't use flux, but some people do.

1) Is flux necessary?
2) How/when do you apply it?
3) Do you apply it after you've soldered the connection or what?

Also, when soldering, what if I were to connect a lug to the back of a pot? Would I need wire to connect the lug to the back of the pot? Or would I just use a long solder connection?

So when you solder a wire to a lug, do you just apply some solder to the tip of the iron and then heat the lug and let it flow from the tip onto the lug and wire?

Sorry if I'm asking too many questions, but I'd appreciate it if someone would help me out.

Thanks!

This was for soldering to the back of a pot, but maybe it'll help you out:

-use the widest tip you have for the back of the pot
-let iron (40-45 watts) heat up. when solder flows onto it, its ready to go.
-tin (tinning is applying a thin layer of solder to every surface to be soldered) tip before using it for the first time and keep it wet throughout process. dry tip wont work that well.
-scuff up back of pot a bit
-put flux on pot
-tin back of pot
-put flux on wire
-tin wire
-put flux on pot and wire again
-put solder on tip until a tear drop forms (doing it this way prevents the need for a 3rd hand!)
-put wire on pot
-put tip on wire and pot
-solder will flow onto both
-remove tip but hold wire on pot for a sec or two
-unplug soldering iron
-your done


When grounding the pot to itself I use the output jack wire instead of bending the lug back or a separate wire all together. I run the jack ground wire THRU the pot ground lug and up onto the back of the pot.

Then I solder the wire to the lug and back of the pot. Doing it this way you've grounded the pot to itself, and the jack to the pot, with one wire instead of two.


*Also NEVER use a soldering gun, only a soldering iron. If in the process of tinning the back of the pot you leave too much solder behind, remove the excess with copper solder braid.

 

[waylay00]

Re: Soldering - Help Needed

Alright, I think I will use flux on the back of the pots. I went to the local shop and asked them about it and he says if you apply a little bit of flux to the back of the pot, it will make it cleaner.

He also said to avoid the RadioShack soldering irons, but instead get a Weller. Is this true? He recommended Kester "44" solder as well. I will probably practice on some spare molex wires that I use in my computer. I have tons of them laying around, so it doesn't matter if I mess anything up.

Also, is it advisable to get an iron that you can control the amount of heat that is put out?

Like I was looking at this Weller Soldering Station - http://www.action-electronics.com/wewlc100.htm

 

[waylay00]

Re: Soldering - Help Needed

Bump