Solid vs multi-laminate neck construction

darkshadow54321

darkshadow54321

New member
As I understand it, you should try to minimise the amount of glue used in guitar construction as it acts as a damper and soaks up vibrations, etc, resulting in less sustain, tone, etc. The 'ideal' solution therefore is to have a solid neck (i.e: the entire neck is made from one piece, except the headstock if it's angled). The same reasoning justifies having bodies made of 1 or 2 pieces, rather than 3 or more.

But there are several builders who prefer multi-laminated necks, often using different types of woods to achieve unique tones and good looks. Naturally, it results in a stronger, more warp resistant neck, but some claim that not only does it not decrease sustain or tone, it actually improves them.

If a guitar is well made then the neck isn't likely to warp unless you seriously mistreat it, so that isn't particularly relevant, although I suppose multi-laminates could minimise the need for small truss rod tweaks. I struggle to see how it could improve tone or sustain though?
 
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Re: Solid vs multi-laminate neck construction

If glue reduces sustain, how come LPs have plenty?

I think most of what's said about guitar construction is bunkum, to be honest.

In the case of multi-laminate necks I think it's mostly about looks. Same for multi-piece bodies. I've played one-piece body guitars that were crap, multi-piece ones that were great and my very favourite guitar has a body made of wood pulp and resin...
 
Re: Solid vs multi-laminate neck construction

I think at least in part it has to do with the geometry of the neck. The ratio of its' width V.S. it's length. I mean, the width is so small that 3 or 5 pieces (which in truth are 3 thick pieces and two thinner strips of a different wood) don't play a part in the tone as far as width is concerned and because they run the entire length of the neck each strip acts as a unique piece of wood transferring the vibrations...
 
Re: Solid vs multi-laminate neck construction

Hamer did three piece lams (flipping the grain of the middle piece) for their shredders of the late 80s and early 90s - such a nice neck it makes a Soloist jealous...

...if its good enough for Hamer, I would not be concerned about it..
 
Re: Solid vs multi-laminate neck construction

darkshadow54321 said:
As I understand it, you should try to minimise the amount of glue used in guitar construction as it acts as a damper and soaks up vibrations, etc, resulting in less sustain, tone, etc.

It seems logical, but doesn't it make you wonder about all the set neck guitars, the thru-body necks with glued on wings, and even more common, guitars with laminated tops. At what thickness does a maple top, for example, overcome the tone robbing effect of the glue used to adhere it to the body wood?
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Re: Solid vs multi-laminate neck construction

Different woods laminated together can produce a different sound. One of the most common combinations that I see around is the 5 piece maple and walnut neck. The neck is mostly maple but has two thin strips of walnut running through out the entire length.
 
Re: Solid vs multi-laminate neck construction

I'm not convinced that glue, in the thicknesses it's used in guitar-making, has any detrimental effect on sound or sustain. After all, the glued joint is stronger than the wood.
 
Re: Solid vs multi-laminate neck construction

Sporky McGuffin said:
I'm not convinced that glue, in the thicknesses it's used in guitar-making, has any detrimental effect on sound or sustain. After all, the glued joint is stronger than the wood.
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Strength has nothing to do with sustain. Oh yeah, a lot of what is said about guitar construction is also over-looked.


One more thing, the actualy TRUSS ROD used has a lot more to do with sustain than people think as well. Check it out, you'll find a few different versions used by different companies.
 
Re: Solid vs multi-laminate neck construction

Sporky McGuffin said:
Try loosening off the neck bolts on a Strat and see how much sustain you get...

Actually, better not. It might be a bit disastrous.
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why would i do that, that doesn't make any sense? you are talking about strength by screws now, I thought we were talking glued strength regarding wood...


strength in wood species will make for good sustain, but the glue joints are always going to be strong or else they won't be used. a 5 piece neck will not have any better sustain because of glue strength anyway...
 
Re: Solid vs multi-laminate neck construction

Binnerscot said:
Hamer did three piece lams (flipping the grain of the middle piece) for their shredders of the late 80s and early 90s - such a nice neck it makes a Soloist jealous...

...if its good enough for Hamer, I would not be concerned about it..
Click to expand...

My 1989 USA Soloist has a 3 piece quartersawn neck- you can see it in the trem cavity (for some reason, Jackson leaves bare wood under the trem springs???? I saw them do this on the Charvel EVH series as well
 
Re: Solid vs multi-laminate neck construction

There are so many factors that go into giving a guitar its characteristics (tone sustain etc) that i don't really think you can focus on one small feature and use that as a basis to say things like "that will sounds like this" or "this will have more sustain than that" because there are so many factors to consider. When you have such things as build quality and the variability of wood to worry about the only real way to know if a guitar is good or not is to pick it up and see if you can make it sound good.
 
Re: Solid vs multi-laminate neck construction

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I agree that whether a guitar sounds good or not will ultimately depend upon a variety of factors. But, all factors being equal (wood quality, quality of construction, etc), the way the neck is created will definitely have an impact.

It's probably a negligible effect, but I'd still like to know which field of thought is right... I simply can't see how multi-laminates could theoretically result in better tone/sustain as a result of increased strength. It seems more likely that the increase in glue would write off any gains introduced by the increase in strength.

KeeperOS said:
and because they run the entire length of the neck each strip acts as a unique piece of wood transferring the vibrations...
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This is an interesting explanation, but I'd still argue that a solid neck would do a better job. It's kinda like having a road with three lanes vs three roads running in parallel. The former is more efficient... That's the best metaphor I could come up with! :34:
 
Re: Solid vs multi-laminate neck construction

darkshadow54321 said:
As I understand it, you should try to minimise the amount of glue used in guitar construction as it acts as a damper and soaks up vibrations, etc, resulting in less sustain, tone, etc. The 'ideal' solution therefore is to have a solid neck (i.e: the entire neck is made from one piece, except the headstock if it's angled). The same reasoning justifies having bodies made of 1 or 2 pieces, rather than 3 or more.
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This is not true. It's easy to disprove with broken headstocks. Guitars that have a professional headstock repair sound the same, and I mean really the same.

The issue is more that if you have e.g. a three-piece body compared to a one-piece body then the grain of the wood doesn't match and doesn't transport the sound between the pieces. But it's not the glue's fault.

In the case of Les Pauls it's also obvious that the set neck is overall an advantage and even the huge glue surface for the maple top is liked by most people.

darkshadow54321 said:
But there are several builders who prefer multi-laminated necks, often using different types of woods to achieve unique tones and good looks. Naturally, it results in a stronger, more warp resistant neck, but some claim that not only does it not decrease sustain or tone, it actually improves them.
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It only improves things if the wood grain comes out right.

I usually see this on neck-throughs that need the added stability. Personally I don't like neck-throughs sound-wise, another proof that some glue connections are actually required for perfect sound.

And then there are Norlin Gibsons that have laminate necks and many even have laminate bodies and some of them sound just awesome. Norlin did everything wrong that you can do to a Les Paul but some of these axes tranport you right to sound heaven.

darkshadow54321 said:
If a guitar is well made then the neck isn't likely to warp unless you seriously mistreat it, so that isn't particularly relevant, although I suppose multi-laminates could minimise the need for small truss rod tweaks. I struggle to see how it could improve tone or sustain though?
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I think it's all in the wood grain. The individual pieces of wood must have the right grain to transport sound, and you must not cut through these "rails".

So if you are lucky you can make a 5-piece SG body that sounds awesome, or if you are unlucky you have two pieces that pick a fight with each other and the thing sounds dead.
 
Re: Solid vs multi-laminate neck construction

SnakeAces said:
why would i do that, that doesn't make any sense? you are talking about strength by screws now, I thought we were talking glued strength regarding wood...
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Strength in general. Good strong solid joints are preferable in terms of sustain - less energy lost. Weak flexible joints allow energy to dissipate.


This is something of a distraction though; what I'm really saying is that I don't believe the inherited wisdom that glue kills sustain, and I'm not convinced that anyone's ever done the research to establish it as fact.

I can't, for instance, see how adding a bit of glue into a Strat neck joint could reduce sustain.
 
Re: Solid vs multi-laminate neck construction

my 76 LP Deluxe is a pancake body and it sustians rather well... it has many many pieces...

the neck is 5 pieces-(3 for the neck 5 at the headstock) and i had the neck warp on me to the point the neck had to re-constructed
 
Re: Solid vs multi-laminate neck construction

darkshadow54321 said:
...This is an interesting explanation, but I'd still argue that a solid neck would do a better job. It's kinda like having a road with three lanes vs three roads running in parallel. The former is more efficient... That's the best metaphor I could come up with! :34:
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Let's put it this way, a single piece neck is more likely to warp due to its' grain than a 3 or a 5 piece one. That alone is why people started using multi-laminated necks in the first place.

So, after experimenting my guess is that by using different species of wood between the laminations they could achieve a more complex tone due to the different sonic characteristics of the various species. So, to use your metaphor it is like using a 5 lane highway versus 3 big roads with two railroads between them. They get the job done more or less equally well but there is a qualitative difference (not difference IN quality) on HOW they achieve it...
 
Re: Solid vs multi-laminate neck construction

jmh151 said:
My 1989 USA Soloist has a 3 piece quartersawn neck- you can see it in the trem cavity (for some reason, Jackson leaves bare wood under the trem springs???? I saw them do this on the Charvel EVH series as well
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Cool, I did not know Jackson ever used lams for necks. All of my Jackson have been one piece quartersawn.
 
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