somebody help me out with "ohms"

Stratovarious

New member
Ok ok ok that past hour ive been tryin to frickin figure these things out

Im gonna have a setup that goes like this (for the time being )


Marshall plexi 50 watt>>>>>weber mass attenuator>>>>>4x12 speaker cab loaded with 30 or 25 watt spkrs


now I was thinking of getting the speakers at 8 watts, because EVH did (lol im such a poser)

so does this meant id run my head and attenuator at 8 ohms aswell? right?

then my mate told me that Ed had the 5150 head at 16 ohms, and the palmer speaker simulator at 8 ohms because "he wanted to push the amp"


how does that work??
 
Re: somebody help me out with "ohms"

Ed was lieing about the 5150 running a 8ohm cab with the head at 16ohm, almost positive of it.

I'd suggest never mismatching ohm.
 
Re: somebody help me out with "ohms"

Ohm mismatch can lead to destruction of your output transformer. Follow the specs of your equipment. EVH has lied numerous times about his gear and settings...don't blow your amp up over it, lol.
 
Re: somebody help me out with "ohms"

Okay but isn't it okay to mismatch if the cab is higher than the head?? ie. 4ohms from the head into 8ohms in the cab??
 
Re: somebody help me out with "ohms"

Okay but isn't it okay to mismatch if the cab is higher than the head?? ie. 4ohms from the head into 8ohms in the cab??

Can you do it without blowing up the output transformer? Probably could. Would I recommend it? Hell no.

Amplifier manufacturers always say "no" to mismatching outputs, yet some people are going to go out of their way to prove them wrong.
 
Re: somebody help me out with "ohms"

Okay but isn't it okay to mismatch if the cab is higher than the head?? ie. 4ohms from the head into 8ohms in the cab??

OKay, guys, listen up. There is no way you will damage an amp or output transformer by hooking it up to a higher impedance cab. The cab will present LESS of a load to the head. But you may not develop the full power the head has to offer by doing this. And, you will likely have trouble getting the output stage into overdrive.

I suspect it would sound weak and thin. Damaging to the ears, maybe, but not the head. The amp head, that is!

But why do it?

Noth
 
Re: somebody help me out with "ohms"

...I heard the myth that it's alright with a solid state head to use a higher impedance cab but not lower...

...valves are the opposite and you can't use anything higher but you can go lower :smack:

how about that?
 
Re: somebody help me out with "ohms"

...I heard the myth that it's alright with a solid state head to use a higher impedance cab but not lower...

...valves are the opposite and you can't use anything higher but you can go lower :smack:

how about that?

Hmmm. It starts getting a little tricky. With both kinds of amps, the lower the load impedance, the harder the amp will have to work. That is, it will have to (or try to) deliver more current. Depending on the amp design, this could have the potential to blow it up, but more than likely it will just run out of steam and start clipping like crazy (sound like crap).Tube amps, however, have output transformers to better match the cab to the head.

As you say, better to not go lower, with any amp!

Noth
 
Re: somebody help me out with "ohms"

OKay, guys, listen up. There is no way you will damage an amp or output transformer by hooking it up to a higher impedance cab. The cab will present LESS of a load to the head. But you may not develop the full power the head has to offer by doing this. And, you will likely have trouble getting the output stage into overdrive.

I suspect it would sound weak and thin. Damaging to the ears, maybe, but not the head. The amp head, that is!

But why do it?

Noth

Good post Noth. Yes, as an electrician, I would have to agree with you that I don't see how it could damage an amplifier (since the load is limiting current more than what the amplifier was going to be looking for), but I just don't understand what posseses people to go against what amplifier manufacturers recommend. I would expect the sound to be a bit choked from trying it like you mentioned.
 
Re: somebody help me out with "ohms"

Good post Noth. Yes, as an electrician, I would have to agree with you that I don't see how it could damage an amplifier (since the load is limiting current more than what the amplifier was going to be looking for), but I just don't understand what posseses people to go against what amplifier manufacturers recommend. I would expect the sound to be a bit choked from trying it like you mentioned.

Oh, I'm with you there. I was only comparing, hypothetically, a matched rated transformer to an overrated one.

But I'll give an analogy. If you've ever heard of the term a "loose" power supply, you know what I'm talking about. Often, on budget products, there's no room for extravegance. An amp's power supply gives just enough to meet rated power. Then some DIYer says I'm gonna soup this up and add, say, lots of extra power supply capacitors. Should be better, right? Turns it on and it sounds choked, overtight, and lifeless. Why? The caps tightened up the supply and regulation, and though it should sound better, it doesn't. I've experienced exactly the same thing with transformers. It should be an exact science, but it's not. It's an art.

Noth
 
Re: somebody help me out with "ohms"

Good posts. I've heard the "internet facts" about running a tube amp set at 8 ohms into a 4 ohm load being safer than running it into a 16 ohm load. I never heard anything like that in any of my electronics classes. It's usually safer to run into a larger load, within limits. You can set your tube amp at 4 or 8 ohms and run it into a 16 ohm cabinet. The thinking is that you will be able to run your amp harder but it won't be able to get to full volume. The truth is that it will still be loud, you won't notice that much of a difference. Running into a lower load than the setting on the amp, as Noth said, will put more stress on the components, in a tube amp, it can possibly damage the output tranny or the power tubes. In reality, this would most likely take running it this way for quite a while, still, it's not worth doing, you can't increase the amps output this way and it's not going to sound better.

With SS amps, you can pretty much take the load to infinity, meaning nothing plugged in which creates an infinite resistance, and it will be safe. Or use a large load to decrease the output, for example, use a 32 ohm speaker on a SS amp that is rated at 100W at 4 ohms. This would give you roughly 12.5W on the 32 ohm speaker. The majority of SS works this way.

With tubes, leaving the output open is worse than a load that is slightly lower than the rating. The power tubes are still pumping out full power into the output tranny which can't dump it anywhere. Those of you who have forgotten to plug in your cab and tried playing the amp may have noticed that the transformer starts "singing", that's from the power tubes dumping all the power into the transformer, it makes the windings start vibrating. It usually doesn't hurt it if you catch it quickly, if you keep trying to play without a load the singing will turn into smoke, then a new transformer and power tubes (and lighten your wallet). This is probably where the idea that it is safer to run lower loads that the amp is set for than higher loads. Don't buy it. In fact, none of these gives you enough benefit (if any) to bother with, so play it safe and use the correct settings, unless you have enough money to experiment and buy new equipment or pay repair bills. Remember, EVH has people lined up trying to give him amps, he doesn't care if they smoke. If something gives him what he perceives to be a 2% improvement, he can afford to do it, it doesn't make sense to the rest of us.

FWIW, on old 100W Marshalls and similar, you can pull 2 of the tubes to lower the wattage, just pull either the 2 inside tubes or the 2 outside tubes, don't pull the pair from one side or the other. Also, when you do this, you have changed the impedance of the output circuit, so you need to set the impedance on the amp to half of the cabinet's impedance. So, for an 8 ohm cab, set the amp to 4 ohms.
 
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