Sort of a mystery guitar..... or NOT. Need Help anyway.

briggleman

New member
Just happened to be in the right place at the right time, I think.

Local music store received about 15 guitars, many amps, some amps under construction, parts from an estate of a amp builder whom passed away a month ago. Not married, no kids, his parents did not know what to do with the stuff so they consigned it to the music shop. Anyway, I have been looking for a Gibson 335 hollowbody type guitar and among the guitars was a Epiphone Dot. Now first, let me tell you about the other guitars. All of them were very high end guitars, in cases. Some were in display, see through cases! A Eric Clapton strat, hand painted in England... Number 8 of 15! A 73 Gibson Les Paul that looked NEW! Eric Johnson signature strats...two of them signed by Eric. Collectors arrived the next day and the Les Paul and some of the strats are gone!

Anyway this Dot seemed out of place among these types of guitars. Its color is even different from standard. Instead of the Maple yellow, it was "tannish" and the rosewood fretboard was figured and flamed! and yes... it looks NEW, with a few pickmarks across the guard. It came with a Epiphone hard case and they priced it at $275. That included setup, which it needed. New flat wound strings, Neck was adjusted, intonation and cleaned. The Tech. said it may have never been adjusted from its purchase date which seems to be 2005. It has "Made in China" stickers on the back headstock along with the impressed serial number at the top of the headstock which confirms its manufacturing origins. It looks perfect. The owner of the music store said he had never seen one this nice. The Tech. is a good friend and he made the same comment, in fact, he said its better than most Gibson's he has seen.

Anyway, checking the ohms across each pickup looks like 8.5K. The reason I state this is the guitar when playing lead is fantastic, strumming is another story. Seems to muddy up the tone. If I was going for more of a Jazz orientation for this guitar, what pickup's would you recommend? I am more of an acoustic player so strumming is important also.

Brad
 
Re: Sort of a mystery guitar..... or NOT. Need Help anyway.

As a first move, I would remove the flatwound strings.

This done, unscrew one of the humbucker mounting surrounds. Inspect the underside of the pickup. Maybe, even, photograph it and post the pic in this thread.

The sonic problems that you describe are what would be expected from flatwound strings on a hollow or semi-hollow electric guitar.

It is faintly possible that your Epi has decent stock pickups. It is far more likely that you have the waxbuckers of olden days.

My suggestions for replacement pickups depend on the sort of sound you seek. For my Epi Lucille, I chose Tonerider A2 Classic N and Rocksong B covered humbuckers. Their A4N model might more up your street.
 
Re: Sort of a mystery guitar..... or NOT. Need Help anyway.

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Picture as requested. I removed the flat wounds but it did not help. I actually preferred the flatwounds to the D'Addario Regular Light/wound 3rds (10/46) I replaced them with. I am looking for a clean less muddy tone. It must be the pickups. I think I am leaning to a P90 or really clean strat sound.

Any Suggestions?
 
Re: Sort of a mystery guitar..... or NOT. Need Help anyway.

You, my friend, stumbled upon a gem of a guitar. I don't know every detail about these Chinese Epiphones, but I have a feeling they're of the same quality as a Gibson, made by people who really cared, but were made of hand selected Epiphone materials to Epiphone specs by Gibson quality hands. I have a feeling, that when Gibson and Fender first started making some guitars in China, they took extra special care to make sure they were going to be good, and they were!

The Indonesian Epiphones are the ones that are turds. The Korean ones are average, but the Chinese ones are great. It's a fluke that you stumbled upon that one, probably because the deceased collector, who's family are p!ssing away his collection, knew better......like me.

Here's what you should do. Remove the electronics, and replace it all with 500K CTS and Seths or WLH's, and if the nut's OK, leave it. Ideally, replace that with a polished bone nut done by a luthier. If you do all this, you'll have a something about as good as any Gibson ES-335.

Just so you know, I've stumbled upon some of these Epiphone and Fender Chinese guitars in recent years, and they're an anomaly. That's why a player of discerning taste, such as him, bought it.

Mine are an Epiphone AJ acoustic that's as good as a Gibson J-45, and a Modern Player Telecaster that I gutted and replaced only the electronics and pickguard. Both are US quality. I wouldn't have bought them if they weren't.

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After it was redone. C/59 Hybrid, Mini hum neck, Fender 5 way, vintage dome knobs, http://pickguards.us/ gloss single ply pickguard, CTS pots. All the hardware was good enough to keep.
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Re: Sort of a mystery guitar..... or NOT. Need Help anyway.

I will post some pics of the guitar tonight. I thought it was strange that this guitar was among those other high end guitars. The Store took in a total of 16 guitars from this one individual a couple of weeks ago. Only two are left.
As for my DOT, per serial number it was made in the Daewon Plant. I know Epiphone built their own dedicated plant in China in 2004, however from the research I have done so far, it looks like they used several facilities in China for manufacturing. It plays very easy, low action, no buzzing with the recent setup. I thought about playing with the pickup heights and poles to see if I can clean it up a bit, maybe even raise the strings/action a tad. I am still amazed by the build quality. I did manage to stop by GC in Rockville, MD and examined two Gibson ES-335 on their used rack. Both are lighter than mine. I could also see glue seepage inside and where the neck was bound to the body, did not look as clean as the DOT. I did not get a chance to look at a new one nor play any of them while I was there. Just did not have time. Anyway, I will start investigating pickups and hoping for recommendations from this group.
 
Re: Sort of a mystery guitar..... or NOT. Need Help anyway.

The Indonesian Epiphones are the ones that are turds.
The real weak spots of the Indonesian Epiphones - the neck profile and the finish. The necks are strangely shouldered and the sunbursts are usually clownbursts on par with the worst of Norlin.
 
Re: Sort of a mystery guitar..... or NOT. Need Help anyway.


You got you some Waxbuckers.

Your desire for a P90/Strat sound might be satisfied to some extent by SD P-Rails pickups - preferably, in Triple Shot mounting surrounds. The P90 coil would do the Kenny Burrell thang. The Rail coil would give a bright, jangly sound - probably more Rickenbacker than Telecaster Thinline - definitely NOT very Stratty.
 
Re: Sort of a mystery guitar..... or NOT. Need Help anyway.

From what I can see, that is one gorgeous guitar.

I agree with gearjoneser's evaluation of your guitar. Some of those Epis are even much better than Gibson, imho. Great instrument, but the pups are not much better than snot.

CTS 500k pots, new three-way, new pups...WLH set would be super as would be P-Rails.
 
Re: Sort of a mystery guitar..... or NOT. Need Help anyway.

A few pictures for your critique.

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Re: Sort of a mystery guitar..... or NOT. Need Help anyway.

When you want to get rid of that dot, you be sure to drop me a PM.
 
Re: Sort of a mystery guitar..... or NOT. Need Help anyway.

Nice guitar there. I've had those pickups as well and didnt care for them at all, they definitely sounded muddy to me. I'd replace them most likely, probably with some used Gibbys, or maybe something from Seymour Duncan. Lot's of great options out here.
 
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