Sounding off about Floyd Rose Copies.

[Screaming In Digital]

I know that there have been several threads about Floyds and Kahlers on here. In fact I originally was going to reply to the most recent one. But then my reply kept growing and I decided to start a new thread. So no need to point out the obvious if any, that what I'm about to write has already been said.

My very first guitar had a Fender licensed "Floyd Rose II" model. As a young guitarist, I loved the idea that I could do insane dive bombs and wacky stuff whilst maintaining perfect tuning. But in due time, the thing fell apart :yell: .

One of the saddles stripped out where the skrew goes in to hold the block. It couldn't hold a string. After that, I was then set on getting an original Floyd. Unfortunatly Warmoth was out of stock. So I settled for the more affordable Schaller Floyd Rose Tremolo. Supposedly number one as far as the copies go. It worked out great at first. But then the problems started. All of the blocks have become jammed inside of the saddles, making string changes near impossible. So in a quick fix I actually put the remaining Floyd saddles onto the Schaller. The one Schaller saddle block has split in half and has become permanently wedged inside the saddle.

As time went on, I began to educate myself further on Floyds. I learned how to propperly adjust everything. And then became agetated when I figured out that I couldn't do a tuning change correctly. String changes are a pain in the arse with a perfectly performing Floyd, then add my problems.

And for some reason, I never been able to get low action. My frets are probably toast, but oh well.

Enter the Kahler tremolo system. I absolutely love the concept. No trem springs, no rear routing. And adjustments are made much easier, action, string spacing, etc. And with so much less wood routed out, fuller tone? The problem is, with Kahler's financial situation it's darn near impossible to find one.

I doubt I could easilly retro-fit one onto my strat. And I've never seen a guitar, in person, equipped with a Kahler.

I guess in conclusion, any licensed Floyd Rose copy is sh**. I'd love to get an original Floyd Rose, and at this point, I need too. I'd also love to get a Kahler, but how do I get one onto my guitar, or onto a new one? Warmoth offers Kahler routing, but I'm not ready to go 100% custom. Has anyone tried out the Floyd Rose speed loader? I was kind if interested but I don't want to limit myself to "Special Floyd Rose Speed Loader Strings."

The other day I hatched the crazy notion, why not glue in a mahogany block into the trem cavity and then rout the top for a Kahler. That would be insane, beyond Frankenstein.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Sounding off about Floyd Rose Copies.

How does the Kahler work without springs?

 

[ex-250]

Re: Sounding off about Floyd Rose Copies.

I doubt I could easilly retro-fit one onto my strat. And I've never seen a guitar, in person, equipped with a Kahler.

i bought a guitar used that the dude retrofitted a kahler on the floyd slot. what he ended up doing was drilling a metal plate onto the guitar so the kahler would properly go on :smack: works great though.

 

[Mr 9finger]

Re: Sounding off about Floyd Rose Copies.

Well I had replied to this paragraph by paragraph but it was to long, so I started all over.

In short, saying those lic. you have are sh** is a bit uninformed. In fact, they are one in the same. Both made by Schaller. Same spec. etc... Schaller was also the only company to have complete access to the OFR design until about a year ago. They still are the Manufacturer of the OFR though. FWIW. The saddles and blocks are EXACTLY the same. If you're stripping screws and cracking blocks you're cranking on them way to tight.

If your blocks are wedged in the saddles, one of 2 things has happened. You haven't kept them clean so they are corroded in there or you have cracked them and they have spread.

Kahlers aren't any better. They have their own sets of issues on quality. And they don't necessarily sound any better either. They have far more moving parts which leaves more room for vibration which leads to crappy tone.

You can put one on a body routed for a Floyd, but it's alot of work. Not for the hands of an inexperienced woodworker and it will destroy any value of the guitar if that's anything to ya.

I'm not trying to bag on ya. I just think some things were over looked. In fact, if you want to off your saddles, I'll take them off your hands, PM me if your interested.

 

[toneseeker]

Re: Sounding off about Floyd Rose Copies.

I was thinking the same thing. Don't crank down on it so tight. If you need replacement parts, Stew Mac sells them.

How crazy do you get with the trem? If you get a little crazy with it, but most of the time you're not doing kamikaze dives, then a good non-locking trem like a Wilkinson will work when it's set up properly. You can even leave the lock nut on and use it, but you will still have the recess route (that would look weird).

No matter what you do with the trem, the frets are of utmost importance! If your frets are not right, you will never be happy with the guitar, because it will always be wrong.

 

[crimson highway]

Re: Sounding off about Floyd Rose Copies.

The problem is, with Kahler's financial situation it's darn near impossible to find one.

what "financial situation" are you referring to? I recently order a pair of their 2315 flatmount trems. Kahler's been back in business making trems and bridges for quite some time. check out www.kahlerusa.com

 

[heem6]

Re: Sounding off about Floyd Rose Copies.

My questions is: how much difference is there between the Licensed and Original versions nowadays? The originals were always supposed to be made of hardened steel and therefore "INFINITELY" better. But I've heard a lot of people remark that the new originals are not nearly as good as the "original" originals ( including EVH's guitar tech - who says he was going thru the new ones every couple nights ).

Since nearly all the licensed versions are being made by Schaller, is it really worth paying 3 - 4 times more for the original version?

I've had pretty good luck with the licensed versions, but haven't had them for the long haul. I'd be interested to hear what everyone else has to say.

 

[J Moose]

Re: Sounding off about Floyd Rose Copies.

I've had Schaller Floyd on my Hamer since '93 and it's really never given me too many hassles. I'm on my second bridge plate because in additon to killing the knife edges on the first one I one of the saddle screw holes got stripped, but that second plate has been on there for I dunno...probably 7 or 8 years, maybe longer. It's also been about that long since I've cracked one of those clamping blocks...

If you're destroying 'em that way then you're putting WAY too much pressure on the stuff, you don't have to crank it down until the stuff doesn't move. I go until it's tight and then maybe a 1/4 turn more.

Anyway, it's pretty easy to take out the blocks. Take the saddles off & clamp it (gently!!!) into a vise. There's a little plate in the bottom of the saddle (if it hasn't already fallen out) that you might have to pop out so you can push/pry the old cracked block out with something like a screwdriver or some other weapon of your choosing.

 

[Leather Rebel]

Re: Sounding off about Floyd Rose Copies.

I've tried several different kinds in the past and the Floyd copies do suck with the exception of the Ibanez Edge and Lo Pro Edge tremolos. They are very good, but still not constructed as well as the Original Floyd Rose. If you want an OFR, look on Ed Roman's site at WorldClassGuitars. He sells 'em, but he doesn't have the best reputation going with a lot of people. You probably wouldn't have trouble buying one of these from him, though. Just make sure you pick out the correct size locking nut to go with it.

If you don't really want to go the routed body process, I would try to find a Washburn Wonderbar. They were on most high-end Washburns back in the '80s and they even sold them seperately as a complete unit. I had one on a Washburn G10V that was awesome. It is similar to the Kahler, but it doesn't require any routing, is built better, and has more adjustments to get the best action possible. It uses rollers and is non-locking on the bridge side, but stayed in tune very well for me. I don't know anything about the speedloader, but if it requires special strings to make it work, it sounds like a lot more trouble than it's worth. Hope this helps.

 

[pinto79]

Re: Sounding off about Floyd Rose Copies.

I only have OFR's and Edge trems now. the Schaller one is junk as far as I'm concerned. I've never been able to get one to flutter properly, and they feel much stiffer to me.

I also really like the Kahler. Like almost anything on a guitar, you have to take the time to learn how to maintain it properly.

just my 2 cents...

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Sounding off about Floyd Rose Copies.

I've had both, and I'd bet a zillion dollars most players would fail a blind test.

The Ibanez ones feel the most different, and I like them the best, fwiw.

 

[Vincent]

Re: Sounding off about Floyd Rose Copies.

Try the Ibanez Edge, Edge Pro or Lo Pro Edge trems. I have played all three, including OFR and I can confidently say that these three made by Ibanez can stand up to the best of the OFRs in terms of tuning stability and usability.

The only drawback is that the Ibanez trems tend to be a bit bigger and heavier than the floyds, so they tend to suck a bit more tone and sound a bit more metallic than the OFRs. However, I've found that a good choice of pickups and body/neck woods can partially offset some of these aforementioned disadvantages.

BTW, stay the hell away from the cheaper Ibanez OFR copies such as the Lo-TRS and Edge II Pro. These are MUCH cheaper copies and are used primarily in Ibanez's Korean made guitars.