Source for 4pdt push pull pot?

Z

zionstrat

Well-known member
Customer has asked for a solo switch on a Les Paul (simultaneously bypass both vol and tones) -The only way I've done this mod is with a 4pdt push pull pot and it's a lot of soldering but rather effective.

So I googled current pots and the only 4pdt push pull that popped up was 65 pounds in the UK!

Anyone have better sources? Am I missing something, I thought that this was still a common mod?

Tried to think about work arounds- no load tones don't free up any poles- Gibson offers push pulls to bypass individual pups, but this build is already using 3 of the 4 push pulls- I can't imagine why you wouldn't bypass everything (unless 4pdts have become scarce).

I've got a note out to Stewmac and appreciate any input-

Cheers,
ZStrat
 
Source for 4pdt push pull pot?

Why do you have to bypass the tones? If the volumes are out of circuit, so are the tones, no? But a bigger question is is it useful to suddenly switch to both pickups full on 50/50 with no blending?
 
Re: Source for 4pdt push pull pot?

beaubrummels said:
Why do you have to bypass the tones? If the volumes are out of circuit, so are the tones, no? But a bigger question is is it useful to suddenly switch to both pickups full on 50/50 with no blending?
Click to expand...
With 4p2t you bypass everything. Mod accomplishes 2 things
1. Timbre shifts... brighter and pushes amp harder

2. Control settings don't change so very easy to move from lead to rhytem and back.

So if 4p2ts aren't available, will suggest doing one pup only per LP standard http://www.gibson.com/news-lifestyl...ifferent-pickup-sounds-les-paul-standard.aspx

Will post when I've. Learned more.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
 
Re: Source for 4pdt push pull pot?

Yes, but as Beau said, you only need a DPDT p/p to accomplish this. If you bypass the vol pots (going straight from pups to the switch) the tone controls will also be out of the circuit.
 
Re: Source for 4pdt push pull pot?

GuitarDoc said:
Yes, but as Beau said, you only need a DPDT p/p to accomplish this. If you bypass the vol pots (going straight from pups to the switch) the tone controls will also be out of the circuit.
Click to expand...

Ok, guys, I must be missing something, can you talk me through the theory?

I've used 4p2t in the past because the only way I know to do this mod is to redirect signal before and after controls and that required 2 poles per pickup with LP wiring, so a total of 4p to switch everything- here's diagrams similar to what I have done in the past.

solo switch 1.jpg
solo switch 2.gif

In theory, I can imagine that you could interrupt the signal on the vol side of the circuit and redirect to merge before the switch and that would only use 1P per pickup- However, I've never seen a diagram for that approach and I imagined there was a good reason to completely bypass the pots on both sides.

So going back to the diagrams above, is the 2nd break at DB and HF superfluous? Could I simply break AC and connect directly to DB? Same with EG to HF?

Much, much appreciated!
ZStrat
 
Re: Source for 4pdt push pull pot?

My thinking is the pickup positive would be wired to the center lug of one half of a DPDT. One outside lug from that side of the DPDT would go to the jack, the other would go to the volume. So you would be selecting whether the pickup is connected directly to the jack or the volume pot. Since you would only need one side of the DPDT to do this, you could do both pickups on one switch.
 
Re: Source for 4pdt push pull pot?

When selected, that would put both pickups in parallel though, so no independent selection?

Edit: I need to draw this out before my head explodes :-S

Edit edit: Also, won't the signal just find it's way back through the selector switch, to whichever volume/tone it's been left on, unless you can isolate those circuits completely?
 
Last edited:
Re: Source for 4pdt push pull pot?

Hmm... maybe, which would make the volumes a master at that point. I'd have to draw it and trace it, or alligator clip test it to check.
 
Re: Source for 4pdt push pull pot?

Thanks guys... I was planning on pointing customer to bypassing a single pup instead, but happy to wait to see if there's a workaround

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
 
Re: Source for 4pdt push pull pot?

It will work just fine with a single DPDT p/p.

As Beau said, attach the pup lead to the center lug of one side of the DPDT (the "pole"). Attach the center (input) lug of the vol pot to the lower "throw" on the DPDT. Attach the upper "throw" of the DPDT to the 3 way switch. The outer (output) lug of the vol pot goes to the same lug of the 3 way. The main change that you need to make is instead of the outer (output) lug of the vol pot also going to the tone pot, the lead to the tone pot needs to come off of the center (input) lug of the vol pot.

You've only used one side of the DPDT for one pup. Now wire the other side of the DPDT to the other pup in the same way.

Doing it this way will totally remove the vol and tone from the circuit. If you don't change the connection of the tone pot as I have said, even thought the vol will be out of the circuit, the tone will still be active. This is why you were thinking you needed a 4PDT to hook up the tone pot separately.
 
Re: Source for 4pdt push pull pot?

Thanks Doc and Beau! You just reduced my soldering time by 50% (plus I don't have to source an extinct switch:)
Much appreciated,
Mickey/Michael
 
Re: Source for 4pdt push pull pot?

Hey guys, I tried to turn this into a schematic for one pup, but wondering if I got it wrong, because it looks to me like the current flows through the vol pot with either switch selection?

vol tone bypass v1.jpg

What am I missing?
 
Re: Source for 4pdt push pull pot?

Wait a minute, on second look, in up position, the wire does go to the vol, but when it returns to the bottom lug, it will die-

So this will work, eh?
 
Re: Source for 4pdt push pull pot?

Thanks, is this right?

Also, I have no idea what the move accomplished- would you mind explaining what that did?

vol tone bypass v2.jpg
 
Re: Source for 4pdt push pull pot?

GuitarDoc said:
Both pups ARE always in parallel anyway.
Click to expand...

I was under the impression that they were to be individually selectable. Also, what's stopping the signal travelling back to volumes pots anyway via the 3 way switch?
 
Last edited:
Re: Source for 4pdt push pull pot?

Davii said:
I was under the impression that they were to be individually selectable. Also, what's stopping the signal travelling back to volumes pots anyway via the 3 way switch?
Click to expand...

-Selectable would be nice, but not necessarily a deal killer.
-No idea about the 3 way question- Does anyone know if this is a problem?

However, I'm still confused due to this sentence-
"The main change that you need to make is instead of the outer (output) lug of the vol pot also going to the tone pot, the lead to the tone pot needs to come off of the center (input) lug of the vol pot."

I think I wired this way in number 14

But based on "Moving the tone connection to the other volume lug.", I moved the tone connection back to the left vol lug in 17 and am wondering if I misunderstood?

Turns out I have a few days to get this right so appreciate your input!
 
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