speaker simulators like the palmer pdi-3, etc

[these_go211]

i did a search and didn't come up with much. does anyone have experience with the palmer pdi-3 or the hughes and kettner red box? my amp setup now is a zvex nanoamp (at 1/2 a tube watt it's still surprisingly loud) into an orange 2x12. i love the setup but i can't record at nite anymore. i used to use pods and other DI type devices so i was able to do late nite recording. i miss this. also, it would be nice to not have to mic the speaker cab. i've become sort of enamoured with the idea of a speaker simulator. the palmer is very cool because it can act as a load box as in addition to it's speaker simulation. the reviews on harmony central for it are overwhelmingly positive. at around $600 though it isn't cheap. but if it's that good it would be worth it.

the hughes and kettner is cheaper but i don't think it has load box capabilities. or, does anyone have experience with any other brand/type of speaker simulator? any help would be appreciated. thanks.

 

[SpaceShipOne]

Re: speaker simulators like the palmer pdi-3, etc

I had the PDI 09 and a load box. It was cool but required a lot of post work to get it from sounding so direct and wierd. I found it a lot easier to just mic up a cab and get the sound from the getgo.

 

[CapoFirstFret]

Re: speaker simulators like the palmer pdi-3, etc

honestly at those prices, the pods are cheaper and you already said you liked doing that and it worked for you, so I'd snag a pod.

 

[these_go211]

Re: speaker simulators like the palmer pdi-3, etc

thanks for the responses so far guys. i should have clarified about the pod. i quickly grew to *not* like the tones from it. the only positive was being able to record heavy tones silently, but at the price of not having a tone i liked. so now i'm searching for something to get my current zvex amp tone silently with some kind of cab simulation to go along with it. thanks.

 

[J Moose]

Re: speaker simulators like the palmer pdi-3, etc

What didn't you like about POD tones?

I mean... I don't like POD tones and don't use 'em for guitar... but what didn't work for you?

The Palmer boxes are great... real problem solvers w/decent tone. Redbox is "ok" for what it is... but you'd still need to provide a load.

Generally, 97.98% of the time... all guitars in my world get recorded with microphones. Gotta get the speaker moving some air molecules. Nothing beats a microphone... Nothing. Only exception to the rule is clean tones... there a good DI & front end (EQ & compression) can rule.

If you need to do engage in psuedo silent late-night stuff you could try a smaller cab like a 1x12 or even a 1x8"... build an iso-chamber or stuff it into a closet. I assume you can at least make the same kind of noise that a stereo would right? You have monitors?

 

[krankguitarist]

Re: speaker simulators like the palmer pdi-3, etc

I got a PDI-09 and it works pretty well for me. Got a few clips in my soundclick of myself using one w/ my Mesa mark IV and my Krank.

Honestly, I find it works better on the Mark IV than the Krank. It's a little sensitive to how you set your amp, and will never work quite as well as micing, but sometimes it can come pretty close if ya know how to work it.

It makes for a good degree of consistency as well. For a person like me, who barely has any time to record as it is, I can just leave my amp @ where it sounds good, and track on and off over the course of a week and have no change in tone. This would be almost impossible for me If I mic'ed my cab. If I bumped the mic it'd all be over.

I do prefer the PDI-09 over the PODxt. I sold my PODxt a few weeks after getting my PDI-09...there really wasn't any need for it.

I use mine with a weber mass 150 attenuator as a dummy load. With your Z-vex amp you could get a PDI-09 and a Weber miniMASS or microMASS for around 70 dollars. Makes for a much less expensive setup than the PDI-03, and it will yeild identical results as the PDI-09 is the filter section of the PDI-03 without the power soak.

 

[these_go211]

Re: speaker simulators like the palmer pdi-3, etc

moose, i went thru some honeymoon periods with my pod 2.0 first and then the pod xt. but then ultimately i thought it didn't sound good when mixed in with a full band. by itself it sounded pretty good but then when mixed in with other instrumentation i always felt something was missing. my engineer/mixing skills are definitely at the beginner level but the pod simply lost it's luster for me. and, i get *A LOT* more inspired to play my zvex tube (mini) beast of an amp.

krank, i'll take a listen to your soundclips. thanks for the info on the pdi-09. i already own a thd hotplate so i do have LOAD capabilities. if i were to purchase the pdi-03 i was going to sell both my thd hotplate and a little used moog effects pedal. but if i went the pdi-09 route i'd keep the hotplate. thanks again. more choices is better. nice!

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

Re: speaker simulators like the palmer pdi-3, etc

I use a Behringer GI-100 into a home-made loadbox with 4 high power resistors.

 

[krankguitarist]

Re: speaker simulators like the palmer pdi-3, etc

The last three on my soundclick were done with a PDI-09, anything before that was POD. No post-processing or anything. The pod has a "fizz" to it that I could never dial out.

 

[these_go211]

Re: speaker simulators like the palmer pdi-3, etc

the infamous "pod fizz." i remember the pod forums being bogged down with that very complaint.

 

[Mincer]

Re: speaker simulators like the palmer pdi-3, etc

ive used a red box to go to a PA before (still used the speaker) and it sounded very good.

 

[Fusion1]

Re: speaker simulators like the palmer pdi-3, etc

I use mine with a weber mass 150 attenuator as a dummy load. With your Z-vex amp you could get a PDI-09 and a Weber miniMASS or microMASS for around 70 dollars. Makes for a much less expensive setup than the PDI-03, and it will yeild identical results as the PDI-09 is the filter section of the PDI-03 without the power soak.

I have a PDI-09 but I've only used it with various modellers. Which one of those Weber attenuators would be suitable for clean/jazz from a Fender Hot Rod Deville or a Polytone? Do the attenuators turn off the speaker entirely or just lower the volume a bit?

Also I have no idea what the speaker motor is for and can't understand what it's function is for. My main concern is silent recording and cabinet simulation from the PDI-09.

Which one of the Webers would be suitable? The Hot Rod Deville is 60w and the Polytone Mega Brain head is 80w.

 

[Fusion1]

Re: speaker simulators like the palmer pdi-3, etc

I just re-read the Weber site about their attenuators and it seems the main purpose is one wanting to crank a tube amp but without such a loud volume. Not exactly what I am after and if what I am after is even applicable. I'm not looking for cranked volume, I am just want the amp output to have a speaker simulation running to a small mixer into the recorder with the speaker having NO volume. Am I on the right track, and if so, which Weber model would I need?

 

[ericmeyer4]

Re: speaker simulators like the palmer pdi-3, etc

How about your Amp + load into a Podxt and just use the cab and mic settings?

It is a little more control than just a speaker simulator. It could sound good... or it might not.

 

[Fusion1]

Re: speaker simulators like the palmer pdi-3, etc

I never cared for modeller's cab sims for some reason.

 

[these_go211]

Re: speaker simulators like the palmer pdi-3, etc

i'm with you fusion. i'm done with pods. i need something else. looks like the palmer pdi-09 coupled with my thd hotplate may be the best choice.

 

[these_go211]

Re: speaker simulators like the palmer pdi-3, etc

oh yea, krank, i've had a chance to listen to one of your songs (fear, fury and frustration) and it sounded great! love the tone and song itself. good work! i'll be listening to more of your stuff for sure. the palmer sounds crunchy, heavy, and cool.

 

[Fusion1]

Re: speaker simulators like the palmer pdi-3, etc

How does one use a Hot Plate or something similar as a dummy load and will it work for a solid state amp like a Polytone? My main concern is recording silently but with the PDI-09 for it's nice cab sim.

 

[J Moose]

Re: speaker simulators like the palmer pdi-3, etc

moose, i went thru some honeymoon periods with my pod 2.0 first and then the pod xt. but then ultimately i thought it didn't sound good when mixed in with a full band. by itself it sounded pretty good but then when mixed in with other instrumentation i always felt something was missing. my engineer/mixing skills are definitely at the beginner level but the pod simply lost it's luster for me. and, i get *A LOT* more inspired to play my zvex tube (mini) beast of an amp.

Well, yeah man... nothing beats a real amp, with real speakers moving real air & captured by a real microphone!!! My beef with the POD's or ANY of the amp simulator stuff is, like you've found, that it doesn't "sit" in the mix with the other instruments very well. They always suck. Too murky, boomy, fizzy... never fits. It's passable for some underdubs... ear candy bits. I'd NEVER let someone use one for main parts though... Never.

Palmers - I got my model #'s mixed up. I haven't used the 09 which I guess is just a DI box? I have spent time with the PDI03 dig it quite a bit... handy tool. That's the rackmount box with 8ohm load, XLR out & some 1/4" outs to drive FX or anything else. The PGA04 looks really killer... http://mercenary.com/palmer.html

Fusion ~ Solid state amps don't require a dummy load. Tube amps do... and the Hot Plate will NOT fulfill that requirement. The RedBox or Palmer 9 can take a line level or speaker level input and "splits" the signal (sort of) to feed the cabinet and a recording rig. On a solid state amp you can usually just disconnect the speaker and run the amp with no problems...

Key word there is "usually"...

 

[these_go211]

Re: speaker simulators like the palmer pdi-3, etc

the pdi-09 is more than just a standard di box. it does have a cabinet simulator built in.