Speakers: Vintage 30 VS. EVM 12L ?

Loserchief

Loserchief

SwingingIdiot
so my Engl Sovereign puts out 100W and has a V30 inside(60W). i guess Engl designed the 1x12 combo to be used with extension cabs for really high volumes and that's okay with me for the most part. But to be safe from blowing up i may want to change the speaker.
What comes to mind first is the Electro Voice EVM 12L since it's 200W(300 in the black label version) and even though the specs sound really interesting and cool(more powerfull lows and the high power handling) i'm not sure if it will be worth the 280€ price.
So the sovereign is a rather bright and clear amp that could actually profit from some added balls in it's combo state(when i plug it into a 4x12 with V30s it's totally different). But will it stay tight and clear with the EVM? I see that the frequencies for the V30 are 70hz-5khz while the EVM is 80hz-7khz. Does that mean the lows will be tighter or rather weaker. Notice that i play seven strings and play in A standard(3.5 steps down from E) so i need something that will be clear but also transfer the huge bottom end without farting out.

Basicly i want all you guys who tried the EVM to tell me what you think and if it would be worth it(of course the high powered speaker doesn't have the danger of blowing up) since i don't want to spend that kind of money on a pure experiment. Also is there are noticebale difference between the regular version of the EVM and the Black label one?
 
Re: Speakers: Vintage 30 VS. EVM 12L ?

EV can be beamy and much less brown
its more hi fi

It does Metal very well, ask Metallica and Zakk Wylde

It's the LOUDEST SPEAKER EVER - only one that ever got me complaints where I live - its 102 - 103 dBs!!!!!

It's great in a 1x12 as old Mesas were

It cuts like nobody's business and will level a forest

Stays clean forever

I still prefer the V30
 
Re: Speakers: Vintage 30 VS. EVM 12L ?

IMO those are 2 very different speakers...

The Vintage 30 is a vintage/modern type sound...it's rooted in vintage Celestion tones but it has a slight modern edge, the EVM is a pure BEAST!!! It's loud, heavy, huge bottom, loud, heavy, slightly beamy, loud and heavy...If I were looking for an EVm12L i'd buy one from the 80's....they're less dough than a new one and unless it's been abused it shoudl be fine...those things are tanks!
 
Re: Speakers: Vintage 30 VS. EVM 12L ?

Olin is my bro', but I prefer EVM-12L's. They are totally different beasts.

V30's sound like the cones are thin. They sound fizzy, cheap, beamy, peaky, and fold up like a bicycle rim under a truck when punched hard. I think a V30 would sound better in a sealed cab, than a floppy (acousticaly loose) open back. I did not like them in my Mesa. I would not count them out just because I did not like them. They would tend to be far more reliant on the amp/cab specs/tone, than the EV.

EVM-12L's are smooth, flatter (some say life-less and sterile), husky, hi-fi, and buzz-quenching. They are most famous in Mesa Boogie combos, because they hold their composure in 100 Watt all-tube open back combos. They are-what-they-are, and are less swayed by the amp/cab combo they are used with. As Olin says, they are super efficient! With the EVM-12L...you can add power...then add more power...then add more power! They just have so much composure under stress!

I have READ about the newer EVM-12L Black Labels ($300 US), and people like them, but I do not know if this early fan-frenzy. I READ that these are even clearer. The EVM-12L Classic is less costly ($200 US) and is getting good reviews also. From what I understand, the "Classic" in not a exact reproduction of the original, and is "improved", by whatever standards EV wants to say it is.

I do love the EVM-12L, and mine is an old 1983-1984 model from a Fender. These speakers are also heavy ball-breakers, as the magnet has been advertised from 14 lbs. or so! That is over 6.3 kg minimum! Plus, the speaker's basket is cast aluminum, not lightweight stamped steel.

If your amp's cab is holding your speaker with only four nuts/bolts, you will want eight! These are too heavy for only four bolts, because you want to keep the aluminum basket from warping. Due to the tight vertical interior dimensions, I was only able to get seven nuts/bolts in, but this is good enough from what I see.
 
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Re: Speakers: Vintage 30 VS. EVM 12L ?

So does that mean if I go for the X pattern of V30/EVM12 I could unleash a palm mute/pick harmonics madness in the best traditions of Kai Hansen/Kiko Loureiro/Emppu Vuorinen with the humbacker in the bridge and let the violin take the stage in the style of Uli Roth/Blackmore/YJM with a single coil in the neck???
 
Re: Speakers: Vintage 30 VS. EVM 12L ?

I played 2203 heads (JMP and JCM, but only one at a time) back in the 80's through 2x EVM12L cabs. The JMP was a combo and the JCM800 was a 2sx12 quarter stack with a sealed cab. I loved them.

They are hi-fi, but musical - they work well for guitar. They don't break up, and are very clear and detailed, but without that upper mid thing V30's have.

Add to your list of EVM players Neil Geraldo - he played Marshall 2203 combos with 2 EVM-12Ls with Pat Benatar back around the second and third albums circa 1980. I think the time I saw them live he had six of those beasts. It's a wonder he has any hearing left.
 
Re: Speakers: Vintage 30 VS. EVM 12L ?

I have an EVM-12L that I bought with my Boogie back in '78. It's still kicking. Heavy as hell ... never breaks up but it makes for a very tight tone. I recently bought a 2x10 eminence cabinet that does break up ... I still like the EVM better. It will stand tall with 4x12 cabs on a stage even in a 1x12 configuration. Mics well ... so if you turn it down get the right sound from the amp it can give you really good stage tones. I never run my 100w Boogie over 2 on the master volume.
 
Re: Speakers: Vintage 30 VS. EVM 12L ?

Update: just got info from Thomann that they don't have the New Classic version of the EVM in their online shop, because here in germany the classic costs even more than the black label version(298€ for the classic and 289€ for the black label, don't aks me why but that's the local pricing and thomann usually has the best prices around here). From what i've hear here i think the sovereign could really profit from an EVM: more power,less fizz in the high mids(engls already have enough of that) and tighter. i think i'm going to get one but now the black label seems like the better choice.
 
Re: Speakers: Vintage 30 VS. EVM 12L ?

Do you really want to spend that much on a speaker?? There are plenty of other good speakers out there for about 100$, and I think some company is making an evm clone as well.
 
Re: Speakers: Vintage 30 VS. EVM 12L ?

LooseCannon said:
Do you really want to spend that much on a speaker?? There are plenty of other good speakers out there for about 100$, and I think some company is making an evm clone as well.
Click to expand...

Anyone know who's making the clones? I wouldn't mind knowing ... in case mine ever gets damaged or punctured or something. I guess there's always e-bay.
 
Re: Speakers: Vintage 30 VS. EVM 12L ?

LooseCannon said:
Do you really want to spend that much on a speaker?? There are plenty of other good speakers out there for about 100$, and I think some company is making an evm clone as well.
Click to expand...

Used samples of the EVM-12L can be had for about $100-125 about any week on fleabay (many times le$$ too..especially with multiple speaker lots). I couldn't find another 12L for my 2x12 at the price I wanted to pay, and put in a $75 Eminence Swamp Thang in the bottom. I wish I could tell how they sound in comparison, but I was too jazzed to get the whole cab put back together that I did not do a sound test of just the Swamp Thang. All I can say is, they go together like peanut butter and jelly! The Swamp is rated with a 102db rating, can dissipate 150 watts, and is "late cone breakup" model accordng to Emi.
 
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Re: Speakers: Vintage 30 VS. EVM 12L ?

Ever tried an EVM-12L 1x12 8ohm with a Eminence 2x10 8 ohm together? That's a pretty cool combo with the Boogie. Suprisingly, the 2x10 really adds a lot of low bass and also the speaker break up.
 
Re: Speakers: Vintage 30 VS. EVM 12L ?

doveman said:
Ever tried an EVM-12L 1x12 8ohm with a Eminence 2x10 8 ohm together? That's a pretty cool combo with the Boogie. Suprisingly, the 2x10 really adds a lot of low bass and also the speaker break up.
Click to expand...

Hmmm...never done it! I am a ham-fisted goon anyway! There is this thread I found by a certain "kdove", that has a sweet player-built cab, loaded with an EVM-12L, and a certain '78 Boogie on top.......

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=7492&highlight=evm12l

:scratchch:naughty::scratchch:naughty::scratchch
 
Re: Speakers: Vintage 30 VS. EVM 12L ?

LooseCannon said:
Do you really want to spend that much on a speaker?? There are plenty of other good speakers out there for about 100$, and I think some company is making an evm clone as well.
Click to expand...

Sludgenutz said:
Used samples of the EVM-12L can be had for about $100-125 about any week on fleabay (many times le$$ too..especially with multiple speaker lots). I couldn't find another 12L for my 2x12 at the price I wanted to pay, and put in a $75 Eminence Swamp Thang in the bottom. I wish I could tell how they sound in comparison, but I was too jazzed to get the whole cab put back together that I did not do a sound test of just the Swamp Thang. All I can say is, they go together like peanut butter and jelly! The Swamp is rated with a 102db rating, can dissipate 150 watts, and is "late cone breakup" model accordng to Emi.
Click to expand...

The problem is that i'm in germany. Used EVMs are pretty much non-existant around here and the amount of available other speakers also isn't that big. and since the Sovereign is a 2000€ amp i guess the high dollar speaker may be justified(not like putting 1000$ rims on a 200$ rust-bucket)
 
Re: Speakers: Vintage 30 VS. EVM 12L ?

Loserchief said:
The problem is that i'm in germany. Used EVMs are pretty much non-existant around here and the amount of available other speakers also isn't that big. (not like putting 1000$ rims on a 200$ rust-bucket)
Click to expand...
Helloween, Rammstein, Accept, Scorpions, EdGuy, Running Wild, you would think that there would be a few people to create a demand for some guitar gear .... hm ....
 
Re: Speakers: Vintage 30 VS. EVM 12L ?

demand yes, but most of these guys are Engl users so since they use the matching cabs that menas V30s all the time ;)
 
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