SSL-1 vs. SSL-2: Big Difference?

[Rich_S]

How much difference would there be between the SSL-1 and SSL-2 for middle and neck positions on a Fender with a 9.5" fretboard radius? (I play standard D'Addarios 10-46.) Advantages or disadvantages of either choice?

Would there be a significant downside to having a staggered bridge pickup (STL-1) along with a couple of SSL-2s?

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: SSL-1 vs. SSL-2: Big Difference?

This is something i've been coming to grips with recently, although with a brand other than SD. I have a set of strat pickups with staggered poles, and they've been in two strats that both have 9 1/2" to 10" fretboard radii (?). I can distinctly hear that the middle two strings sound louder. Angling the pickups up closer to the strings at one end or the other seems to just make the opposite side sound weaker and the excess of volume on the middle two strings doesn't really change.

However ....the pickups i am using are Alnico 3, and need to be set closer to the strings that A5 pickups would, so i have to wonder whether the A5 varieties would suffer less from this problem as they need to be set down further from the strings, and thus maybe the stagger has less effect ? I have A5 pickups in another Strat, but i bought them after discovering this problem, and so i ordered the A5's with flat pole pieces. I have also just recieved a duplicate set of the A3 ones, but this time with flat poles.

So...i have concluded that (for me, anyway)...any A3 Strat pickups should be flat-poles unless they are going into a vintage radius (7 1/2" or whatever it is), and i'm not certain about A5's, but i'd err on the cautious side and use staggered poles only on the vintage radius, flat for everything else. I realise some people may not hear the imbalance across the strings, or not be bothered by it. Because I need the slightly flatter board, i am going to stick with flat poles in all circumstances, but like i say, the effect may not be as bad with staggered A5's due to needing to set them further from the strings. I guess if you're in the USA you can try one type and have the option to exchange them, but if you try the staggered ones first, be sure to listen closely using a clean sound and preferably through a few different amps.

I hope i haven't confused the issue even more, hopefully others can contribute from their experiences...these have been mine and it has been a frustrating and expensive time getting it sorted out.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: SSL-1 vs. SSL-2: Big Difference?

How much difference would there be between the SSL-1 and SSL-2 for middle and neck positions on a Fender with a 9.5" fretboard radius? (I play standard D'Addarios 10-46.) Advantages or disadvantages of either choice?

I think all other things being equal that flat poled pickups sound a little fuller and warmer with a bit less glassy treble and raised pole Strat pickups sound a little bit brighter and glassier.

Would there be a significant downside to having a staggered bridge pickup (STL-1) along with a couple of SSL-2s?

I'd do it the other way around if we were talking about SSL-1 and SSL-2. But we're not I guess.

 

[BigJoe77]

Re: SSL-1 vs. SSL-2: Big Difference?

How much difference would there be between the SSL-1 and SSL-2 for middle and neck positions on a Fender with a 9.5" fretboard radius? (I play standard D'Addarios 10-46.) Advantages or disadvantages of either choice?

Would there be a significant downside to having a staggered bridge pickup (STL-1) along with a couple of SSL-2s?

I'll second what Lew said about the glassy/fuller thing (staggered/flat).

In answer to your second question, I don't see why there would be a problem The STL-1 doesn't have a significantly different stagger than the Twangbanger for strat and that is recommended to go with the flat pole neck and mid.

 

[Rich_S]

Re: SSL-1 vs. SSL-2: Big Difference?

Hmm...

Seems to me we're dealing with two issues here. Crusty's talking about string balance, which I would assume is affected by pole height, higher pole => louder string.

If I get Lew correctly, he's talking more about the over all voice of the pickup.

If (and that's a big "if") I ever noticed anything about the string balance, it was perhaps that the G was a bit too loud for chords on the middle or neck pickup. I'm thinking mostly about faux-reggae stuff on the top 3 or 4 strings, middle of the neck. (Think early Joe Jackson.) That observation might indicate the flat poles would be better for me.

But... Lew et al indicate increased glassiness with the staggered poles. I equate "glass" to "clarity", so this would indicate the staggered poles might help clean up the chord, maybe let the individual note be heard better(?) Kinda counter-intuitive, but who knows, we're into terminology here. (My current favorite overdrive stompbox - Lovepedal Eternity clone - has a "glass" knob. I love it, but I'll be dammed if I know the difference between "glass" and "treble".)

Any more insights?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: SSL-1 vs. SSL-2: Big Difference?

But... Lew et al indicate increased glassiness with the staggered poles. I equate "glass" to "clarity", so this would indicate the staggered poles might help clean up the chord, maybe let the individual note be heard better(?) Kinda counter-intuitive, but who knows, we're into terminology here.

Any more insights?

You would be fine with either. But I do hear the SSL-1 as being slightly brighter than the SSL-2. I hear all alnico 5 Strat single coils as being bright and glassy - it's what Fender style pickups sound like to me. Forget glassy - let's just go with "brighter", as in more treble.

I do think staggered poles might sound cleaner because the sound will be a little less full - and "full" (taken to the extreme) = muddy.

Not that the SSL-2 is muddy. It's not. I said "taken to the extreme".

My guess as to why flat poled Strat pickups sound warmer and fuller to me is that with the pole pieces even with the top of the flat work, when we're adjusting the overall pickup height we can bring the whole pickup closer to the strings than we can with a raised pole pickup.

 

[Rich_S]

Re: SSL-1 vs. SSL-2: Big Difference?

Oooh, that's an interesting observation. Maybe we can regain the glass by keeping the SSL-2 down at SSL-1 height? Then maybe the flat poles would help level out the loud G string? Lot of "maybe"s, lot of question marks.

Did I read somewhere that the staggered poles were designed for strings from the olden days, which generally had a wound G that needed boosting, and that it no longer applied to modern strings with a plain G? Of course, we've gotten used to the staggered pickup/plain G sound so it now sounds "right" to us 50 years down the road.

I think I might go with the SSL-2s and see what happens, just because I found a pair used and used SSL-1s are as rare as hens teeth, for obvious reasons.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: SSL-1 vs. SSL-2: Big Difference?

Oooh, that's a brilliant insight. Maybe we can regain the glass by keeping the SSL-2 down at SSL-1 height. Then maybe the flat poles would help level out the loud G string.

I don't think so. Seems like I lose "glass" when I move the poles further from the strings.

Did I read somewhere that the staggered poles were designed for strings from the olden days, which generally had a wound G that needed boosting, and that it no longer applied to modern strings with a plain G? Of course, we've gotten used to the staggered pickup/plain G sound so it now sounds right.

Yes. But they still sound fine with an unwound G.

I think I might go with the SSL-2s just because I found a pair used, and used SSL-1s are as rare as hens teeth, for obvious reasons.

Go for it.

You're going to use one as a bridge pickup? Is one RW/RP? Briefly hold one new pickup then the other to the polepieces of your middle pickup. The one that attracts is the one I'd start with to try to retain humcancelling when the middle is combined with the bridge or neck pickup.

You might find though, that you want a slightly hotter bridge pickup than a stock SSL-2 or SSL-1.

In that case use the two SSL-2 pickups for neck and middle pickups and get a Twangbanger or Antiquity Custom bridge pickup. That would be recomendation for what it's worth!

 

[Rich_S]

Re: SSL-1 vs. SSL-2: Big Difference?

Nah... they're going in my Nashville Tele, middle & neck. STL-1 in the bridge. They're both normal wound (not RWRP) but since I spent about 80% of my time on the bridge pickup, I'm starting to think RWRP is a minor detail, despite my rant in the other thread.

 

[uOpt]

Re: SSL-1 vs. SSL-2: Big Difference?

To my ears there is an audible difference and I like staggered better.

(yes I know it's all wrong unless I have a wound G string)

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: SSL-1 vs. SSL-2: Big Difference?

The only major physical difference between the two models is the length of the polepiece rod magnets. The significance of this is in how closely each of these two pickup designs can be adjusted relative to the strings.

On a pickup with the vintage height stagger pattern, if the raised D and G poles are correctly set, the A and B poles will probably be farther away from the strings than is ideal. Love it or loathe it, this imbalance is part of the vintage Stratocaster sound.

Personally, I enjoy this sonic "flaw" and make a feature of it.

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: SSL-1 vs. SSL-2: Big Difference?

Okay, I have just swapped the staggered A3 pickups for the exact same ones with flat poles, and at first listen, i can clearly hear that the issues i had with poor string balance has been resolved. All the strings now seem to be the same volume, no fading away of the top B and E strings at all as i play across the strings. (the guitar is a Highway One Strat, and i think the fretboard radius is 9 1/2 or 10 inches ). So...the issue these staggered pickups had in two guitars now seems to be resolved by replacing the staggered magnet version with the flat pole version.

Tonally I can't hear much difference yet, but i haven't spent a whole lot of time listening. Being A3 magnets, these pickups are not as glassy as the A5 pickups to begin with, but i will do some closer listening and get back here with my impressions of any tone differences.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: SSL-1 vs. SSL-2: Big Difference?

to me flat pole Strat pickups loose a little of the Stratiness...

 

[DonP]

Re: SSL-1 vs. SSL-2: Big Difference?

I'm in for the more vintage look and tone of staggered poles. I don't play anything where I worry about string volume balance.